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Offlinekotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: daksya]
    #5597096 - 05/06/06 07:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

who could expect anything other than that?


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinemrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
    #5597609 - 05/06/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Just because there is a correlation between when the drinking age was raised and a drop in fatal crashes does not necessarily mean one casued the other. This is one of tha major points of any basic statistics course. One must keep in mind that during the same time period, cars were made much safer, and the BAC was lowered to .08, as well as the fact that different generations act differently. It is foolish to say that the lower drinking age necessarily saves lives. In my town, the fact that it is illegal to drink does not stop many at all, in fact it might even fuel some who try to be cool by breaking the law.


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www.18todrink.com change a stupid law


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: fresh313]
    #5597634 - 05/06/06 12:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
raise the driving age to 18
then u have a bunch of terrible 18 year old drivers
raise the driving age to 21
then u have a bunch of terrible 21 years old drivers
....



It's not as simple as that. If I thought it was just a matter of experience, then I'd want the driving age to be as low as possible. But it's not just experience. It's a matter of recklessness. Teenagers think they're immortal, so they drive recklessly for kicks or to impress their friends. An 18 or 21-year-old is more likely to have outgrown that phase, and will likely be a more cautious driver.


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OfflineBlueRidge
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Silversoul]
    #5597684 - 05/06/06 12:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

any of you live in rural areas?? i do and it simply WOULD NOT work to raise the driving age to 18. around here, 16-17year olds need that freedom that a drivers liscense gives them. teens need to drive to get to and from school, to and from work, to begin to participate in this society. its a gradual process and should be. reckless teenagers who die or kill someone else is simply not a viable argument for rasing the driving age to 18.

oh yeah,

i am under 21 and personally i am fine with the drinking age.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: BlueRidge]
    #5597794 - 05/06/06 02:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

all things said here, i think drinking ages should be decided upon by local governments, not federal. because as has been brought up, rural areas require younger kids to drive for work and etc.

but as for recreational driving, or driving in a situation where public transportation or carpooling is just as convenient.. it's a different issue.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: BlueRidge]
    #5597862 - 05/06/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueRidge said:
any of you live in rural areas?? i do and it simply WOULD NOT work to raise the driving age to 18. around here, 16-17year olds need that freedom that a drivers liscense gives them. teens need to drive to get to and from school, to and from work, to begin to participate in this society. its a gradual process and should be. reckless teenagers who die or kill someone else is simply not a viable argument for rasing the driving age to 18.

oh yeah,

i am under 21 and personally i am fine with the drinking age.




yah they need the freedom, plus u can work when your 14 legally, but u cant even drive to work??? it sucks.


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Offlinemrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: fresh313]
    #5598242 - 05/06/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

in the words of stan's dad "Oh, I'm sorry, I thought this was America"... if you are over the age of 18 and an adult you decide whether or not you drink. Drinking does can not directly harm anyone other then the consumer, it can only indirectly harm the consumer by its effects on that person's decisions. Using that logic, the government should also ban books on terrorism, and other anti government books, because they can affect peoples' decisions and indirectly harm others. What about books on communism. Communist literature indirectly led to the Russian Revolution, which arguably cripple one of the largest nations in the world. Does that mean the Czarist government would have been right if they effectively and completely censored all of the communist literature and information seeping into Russia? No they would not.


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www.18todrink.com change a stupid law


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
    #5598267 - 05/06/06 05:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The way I work in this area has always been pretty consistent:

I know right from wrong. I am intelligent, I am capable of making informed decisions. I know what my rights currently are, and what my rights should be.

If, with all of those resources, I decide to do something, I will do it whether it is legal or not. I don't give two shits whether what I do is legal if I know it isn't wrong to do it.

Now, if I were to do something illegal that I knew was wrong, I would not complain if I was punished for it. But if I was punished for something I knew was not wrong, then I would do everything in my power to raise hell.


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Konnrade]
    #5598568 - 05/06/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Konnrade said:
If, with all of those resources, I decide to do something, I will do it whether it is legal or not. I don't give two shits whether what I do is legal if I know it isn't wrong to do it.




That's the way it should be, however, there are individuals who have extreme views about what is right and wrong. What should the guy do, who sincerely feels that it is right for him to have sex with underage girls? Or the serial killer who feels no remorse for slaughtering a family of four?

Everything is subjective.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5599541 - 05/07/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The problem is, there are too many ignorant 18-20 year olds who are clueless about anything and don't really care about much other than their own existance. Trust me, I am in that age group and this pretty much identifies 98% of the people I know. Because of this I think drinking and driving would be a huge issue and everything would go down hill. I am all for the 21 year old drinking age even though I am prohibited at the moment.

PS. Even if I drink I am more scared of the consequences of gettin caught driving that I would never think to have a sip of alcohol an get behind the wheel. This is why I think the age should be 21.


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"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5599651 - 05/07/06 12:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It would be interesting to see drunk driving statistics from countries where alcohol is available to younger people (Germany, Switzerland, etc..) and then compare that to America's drunk driving statistics.

I have a feeling that the legality of booze at younger ages makes it not as much of a "forbidden fruit" and there are less alcohol problems with teens and young adults.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5600275 - 05/07/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Drinking does can not directly harm anyone other then the consumer, it can only indirectly harm the consumer by its effects on that person's decisions. Using that logic, the government should also ban books on terrorism, and other anti government books, because they can affect peoples' decisions and indirectly harm others. What about books on communism. Communist literature indirectly led to the Russian Revolution, which arguably cripple one of the largest nations in the world. Does that mean the Czarist government would have been right if they effectively and completely censored all of the communist literature and information seeping into Russia? No they would not.




no, thats not using the same logic.  You are comparing mental / physical (drinking) to intellectual. (reading)

any dumbass with a hole in his face can put alcohol into his body, and within 5-20 minutes, he will physically be showing side effects, loss of motor skills, delayed reaction time, slurring of words, blurry vision. etc. etc.

If you could point me to a book on Communism that will affect that same dumbass within 20 minutes of reading, to the point of not being able to control his own actions physically... well sir, I believe we may have a cure for illiteracy on our hands.  :rolleyes:


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
    #5600387 - 05/07/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Huh? I think you replied to the wrong person.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5600546 - 05/07/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

thats because i always use the quick-reply, and i never select the "reply to:" part. i just leave it on "-Last Post-"

because im lazy.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
    #5600573 - 05/07/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Drinking age for males 49
Drinking age for females 18

After all, girls mature faster than boys.


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Offlinemrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
    #5600656 - 05/07/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, it is the same situation. The government is playing "dad" and making a decision that they believe is "best for us". Not getting any sleep will also make you a terrible driver, make you exteremely irritable and violent, really hurt your health, and make it exteremly unpleasant for the people around you. Should the government require you to get 8 hours of sleep, or maybe because that would be too difficult to enforce, they could impose a curfew?


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www.18todrink.com change a stupid law


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Offlinekotik
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
    #5600673 - 05/07/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Not getting any sleep will also make you a terrible driver, make you exteremely irritable and violent, really hurt your health, and make it exteremly unpleasant for the people around you. Should the government require you to get 8 hours of sleep, or maybe because that would be too difficult to enforce, they could impose a curfew?




actually, there is a law against driving while sleepy. In New Jersey it's called "Maggie's Law" and it's called other things in different states. In Texas you can get a DUI for driving while "drowsy" and you can be expected to perform the same roadside tests as anyone else.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinemrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: kotik]
    #5600782 - 05/07/06 11:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

But it is not illegal for someone under the age of 21 to deprive themselves of sleep, while it is illegal for them to drink. Your point is irrelevant.


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www.18todrink.com change a stupid law


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OfflineDavid_vs_Goliath
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: mrlinus41]
    #5600799 - 05/07/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

mrlinus is alcohol that big of a deal to you??


--------------------
"People living deeply have no fear of death."
"Love the animals, love the plants, love everything. If you love everything, you will perceive the divine mystery in things. Once you perceive it, you will begin to comprehend it better every day. And you will come at last to love the whole world with an all-embracing love."
"Our problems are man-made, therefore they may be solved by man. No problem of human destiny is beyond human beings."


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Offlinemrlinus41
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Re: American Drinking Age [Re: David_vs_Goliath]
    #5600818 - 05/07/06 11:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Not at all, its more the principal of the matter.


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www.18todrink.com change a stupid law


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