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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Ripping audio files
    #5594681 - 05/05/06 03:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I just formatted my computer and I am going to re-rip all of my CD's to put on my MP3 player. Before, all of my MP3's were done with CDex and in 128kbps. I have tons of room on my Ipod and I am using Itunes to rip all of my stuff. Here are m questions:

1. Is 128 kbps ok? ...Or should I rip it at a higher rate (like 192 kbps for example). I have tons of room on my MP3 player so the amount of space taken up does not matter. Does 192kbps make that much of a difference?
2. Which encoder should I use (AAC, AIFF, Apple lossless encoder, MP3, etc..)?

Any other shit I should know?


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5594714 - 05/05/06 03:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

if you are ripping from cd, 128 should be enough.

typically you want to use a higher bitrate when coming off something with a higher quality than CD, like vinyl, analog tape, or protools (recording system). otherwise you would just be upsampling the CD for no good reason.


Edited by kotik (05/05/06 04:14 PM)


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Invisibleivi
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: kotik]
    #5594758 - 05/05/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
you would just be upsampling the CD for no good reason.




Bullshit. CD quality audio is 0-22,000 Hz. Even the highest bitrate (320kbps) mp3 has a frequency cutoff at around 19 kHz. It's impossible to "upsample" CDDA when ripping to mp3.

Randal: http://www.chrismyden.com/bestmp3guide.php


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: ivi]
    #5594769 - 05/05/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Also, where are the sound files that Itunes makes stored (what directories)? I would like to know so I can back them up. I don't want to have to re-rip them.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5594780 - 05/05/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ivi, you seem to be confused with the concept of bitrate.

MP3 will ALWAYS cut off frequencies, in fact thats the way MP3s work: they analyze the entire file, then decide which sounds are not needed.

Nyquist Theorem states that an analog sound must be sampled at a minimum of twice its frequency in order to be accurately reproduced digitally. This does not apply to audio CDs, so in fact ripping from a CD at 320 kbps (while of course it cuts off frequencies.. as I said, thats how MP3s work...) is pointless, since the audio CD is already in digital format.


Edited by kotik (05/05/06 04:16 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5594807 - 05/05/06 04:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

1. Is 128 kbps ok?

It might be OK, but if you're not pressed for space, 192 would be a better choice. The reason is that high frequencies contain more information than low. In Information Theory speak, they have more entropy, so they're harder to compress.

The issue is complicated by the fact that we're not just talking about, say, a 20 kilohertz sound, but rather a very brief transient whose spectrum contains a signal at 20 kilohertz. This is a function of the rise time of the wave form. The practical upshot of all this is that, while a steady 20 kilohertz sine wave will be reproduced very well at 128 kbps because it is one single frequency, a cymbal hit that contains spectral components at many high frequencies will saturate the encoder and lead to a duller, muffled sound.

Obviously, 256 is even better than 192, but from the real-world tests I've read, the average person using consumer-grade audio gear won't hear a difference between 192 and 256.

Try encoding a few songs representative of what you like to listen to at several bitrates, and see if you can hear the difference.

2. Which encoder should I use (AAC, AIFF, Apple lossless encoder, MP3, etc..)?

This question is almost as religious as asking which operating system you should use. Ask 100 people, and you'll get 100 different answers. If you ask me, I keep things simple and use MP3. Modern MP3 encoders like LAME do a great job and while MP3 may not compress quite as tightly as Ogg and others, it's supported universally. Nothing sucks more than to want to listen to something and find that the player doesn't support your format (someone's car MP3 stereo, for example).

Hope this helps.


--------------------
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2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (05/05/06 06:29 PM)


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: Diploid]
    #5595034 - 05/05/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

the average person using consumer-grade audio gear won't hear a difference between 192 and 256.




correct. and unless you are listening to the music with studio monitors (that do not "color" the sound by adding bass or treble by design) chances are you couldn't tell the difference between a 128kbps and 320kbps mp3.

i do know a few people that can instantly tell whether a song is from MP3 or not.. and I mean instantly, like within 2 seconds of the song starting, they will be able to tell me whether or not it's an MP3. Of course these are people that have been working in the music industry for decades, but it still amazes me. Personally, I can't tell the difference unless I have both files next to each other to compare.


--------------------
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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: Diploid]
    #5595158 - 05/05/06 06:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I agree this is all highly subjective, but I would heartily recommend keeping it simple. "--alt-preset standard" using LAME is a great, simple solution, resulting in relatively small, high quality VBR mp3s.


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Invisiblesupercollider
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5596370 - 05/05/06 11:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

And don't use itunes for ripping. Exact Audio Copy is the best ripper.


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: supercollider]
    #5597631 - 05/06/06 12:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

supercollider said:
And don't use itunes for ripping. Exact Audio Copy is the best ripper.




correct.

also, like odium said, it is not necessarily a high bitrate that makes a compressed file (i.e. mp3) higher quality, but what encoder you use. there are alot of bullshit mp3 encoders out there - stick with the best: use the lame encoder @ aps if you want to use mp3. VBR is where its at.

I personally rip to flac for archival purposes
and then encode these to mp3 @ aps or ogg - 6.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: Vvellum]
    #5598454 - 05/06/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bi0 said:
I personally rip to flac for archival purposes
and then encode these to mp3 @ aps or ogg - 6.




Woah woah...way too complicated. I like Itunes because I can just throw the CD in and it knows what the album, artist, and songs are.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5598584 - 05/06/06 07:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Exact Audio Copy is a much better ripping progam than Itunes, and can connect to an internet database of albums to fill in the tags properly


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5598591 - 05/06/06 07:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

EAC does that too. Use and love it.

flac is a lossless encoding - lossless is a true, CD-quality rip

mp3 ripped with lame at alt-preset-standard is pretty much what you want to do.

ogg q-6 is ogg vorbis at quality 6 - ogg is another lossy encoding like mp3.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: Vvellum]
    #5598614 - 05/06/06 07:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Does Itunes ripping quality really suck that badly? How could such a mainstream program that was made by a major company suck so badly?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5598891 - 05/06/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It doesn't.

Unless you're an audio purist or a geek, Apple's software will do the trick for you. Choose the MP3 option with the defaults and you can't go wrong.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Edited by Diploid (05/07/06 09:35 AM)


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InvisibleVvellum
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5599492 - 05/06/06 11:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I wouldnt say it sucks.
I just think there are better ripping apps like eac
out there that are just as easy to use and offer more options.

however, the lame encoder is hands down the best.
other mp3 encoders suck.
not sure if you can use lame with itunes.

eac has error detection and correction (for slighly scratched cds), btw.
and I dont think itunes does.

the way I see it is, if you're going to spend hours upon hours ripping cds, you might as well use the best tools - and in this case, that would be lame + eac.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5600229 - 05/07/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Itunes doesn't suck, but it's like most mainstream software

it's popular
it looks nice
all your friends use it
it's easy to use

and like most mainstream software

it performs just about ok
there are better alternatives
many of those alternatives are free

So if you want to, use Itunes, but bi0 is absolutely right, if you are going to invest time in ripping CDs, wouldn't you rather rip them properly?


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: OJK]
    #5600263 - 05/07/06 06:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Does Itunes ripping quality really suck that badly? How could such a mainstream program that was made by a major company suck so badly?




iTunes encodes your files to a proprietary format (a modified version of MP4).  Thats why it sucks so badly.  and they do it, because apple is made up of elitists and people with heads up their asses that like to make sure everything you buy has the apple name on it one way or another.  :thumbdown:


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: kotik]
    #5600270 - 05/07/06 06:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Does Itunes only rip to AAC?

fuck, that sucks


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Ripping audio files [Re: OJK]
    #5600376 - 05/07/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Odiumjunkie said:
Does Itunes only rip to AAC?

fuck, that sucks




There are about five or so encoding options with my Itunes program (AAC, MP3, etc..).


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