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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Nigger [Re: kotik]
    #5594524 - 05/05/06 02:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

post I think, that's where he/she's been.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 11 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Icelander]
    #5594576 - 05/05/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:

Then I think things like, if the world uses the net for more then half of its socializing and information source, people who may want to manipulate society on a mass scale, could use that technology and not even need to create the more complicated believable human bodies for their AI programs.



Wow... maybe that's why so many people on here support B ooo sh?

Scary thought actually.


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I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: leery11]
    #5594624 - 05/05/06 03:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)


In today's America, being a white male is a disadvantage. The fact that if you're of a different color skin or the wrong gender only puts you behind some guy who isn't as qualified getting ahead through Affirmative Action.



this isn't true at all. i attended a debate on affrimative action a while back and this wasn't even used as an argument against it, its been so clearly proven wrong.

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OfflineRedNucleus
Causal Observer
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Registered: 02/26/01
Posts: 4,103
Loc: The Seahorse Valley
Last seen: 3 years, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5594657 - 05/05/06 03:24 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It is easier for black applicants to get into my university than white applicants. There are many scholarships that target a certain race only. NONE are white only.

Whites are disadvantaged through affirmative action by definition. It is very clear cut: blacks get an advantage. That's what affirmative action IS


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Namaste

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Nigger [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5594693 - 05/05/06 03:33 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Unfortunately, most blacks grow up in shitty areas with shittier opportunies. Affirmative Action is a backasswards idea to give blacks better opportunies by letting them have better access to universities rather than fixing the root of the problem.

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Offlinekotik
fuckingsuperhero
 User Gallery
Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Nigger [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5594746 - 05/05/06 03:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Affirmative Action is a backasswards idea to give blacks better opportunies by letting them have better access to universities rather than fixing the root of the problem.




amen. if schools were properly funded, and science, math and etc. were emphasized, it would be a MUCH better step towards progress than addressing the symptoms alone (AA).


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: kotik]
    #5594868 - 05/05/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Feel free to object to anything I said then.


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010001100100001001000101!

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Nigger [Re: Icelander]
    #5595395 - 05/05/06 07:23 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Swami is now a Swamilita?


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5595471 - 05/05/06 07:41 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

RedNucleus said:
It is easier for black applicants to get into my university than white applicants. There are many scholarships that target a certain race only. NONE are white only.

Whites are disadvantaged through affirmative action by definition. It is very clear cut: blacks get an advantage. That's what affirmative action IS




they get an advantage to to offset the disadvantage they had from going to worse school/haivng less money/being discriminated against, etc. in other words, its like a weighted gpa. if you took harder courses than i did but had a lower grade point avergage, it wouldnt necessarily mean i was a more qualified student. also, in places where it was ruled that race could not be used at all as a criteria for admissions, whites were at a disadvantage because asians had better grades.

Edited by Deviate (05/05/06 07:48 PM)

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5595488 - 05/05/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Unfortunately, most blacks grow up in shitty areas with shittier opportunies. Affirmative Action is a backasswards idea to give blacks better opportunies by letting them have better access to universities rather than fixing the root of the problem.




of course and those that support affirmative action also support fixing the route of the problem but let's be honest with ourselves, the problem is not going to get fixed overnight. until then we may take certain mesures to help end the cycle of povery many blacks are trapped in right now. doing this benefits everyone, not just blacks.

Edited by Deviate (05/05/06 07:46 PM)

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5595927 - 05/05/06 09:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
this isn't true at all. i attended a debate on affrimative action a while back and this wasn't even used as an argument against it, its been so clearly proven wrong.




If a University/Employer does not meet his quota for the # of blacks; asians; native americans; whatever, he will stop hiring white people. And if at that time, a white job candidate will apply at the same time as a black job candidate, even if the white candidate has better credentials, due to AA, the employer's decision will be overturned to hire the black candidate.

This isn't true? That's the whole premise behind AA!


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010001100100001001000101!

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5595957 - 05/05/06 09:55 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

my post was in response to the statement ''In today's America, being a white male is a disadvantage'' and this was proven false so easily that it wasn't even used as an argument by the professor who was completely against affirmative action. he himself said it was false. even with affirmative action, being a white male is a still huge advantage in our society. i wish i had the statistics handy to prove this but obviously i dont remember them now.

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5596004 - 05/05/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

In the example I provided in my previous post, being a white male is clearly a disadvantage.


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5596042 - 05/05/06 10:21 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

well of course its possible to find a situation wheres its a disadvantage but you stated ''in today's america being a white male is a disadvantage'' and that simply couldn't be further from the truth. the statistics demonstrated that the slight instances where it could work against you did not have any appreciable affect on white males as a whole. being white still worked overwhelmingly in their favor.

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Male User Gallery

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5596058 - 05/05/06 10:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Good post Deviate.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
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Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5596238 - 05/05/06 10:56 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

well of course its possible to find a situation wheres its a disadvantage but you stated ''in today's america being a white male is a disadvantage'' and that simply couldn't be further from the truth.




On what occasions is it not the truth?

You're confusing being black with being in poverty. Few establishments this PC day and age will purposely hire whites out of racist causes. FACT: if a black guy and a white guy live in the same neighborhood, as a WHOLE, the black man has a higher chance of getting into any institution.

Quote:

the statistics demonstrated that the slight instances where it could work against you did not have any appreciable affect on white males as a whole.




You keep referring to these statistics as a source, without posting any backing yourself. Real great way to make a foundation for your data.  :thumbup:

Where is the remaining percent out of this chart of yours of where being white helps you get into an establishment? And someone's bias opinion that all the major corporations will only hire white people doesn't count.


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010001100100001001000101!

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5596329 - 05/05/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Quote:

well of course its possible to find a situation wheres its a disadvantage but you stated ''in today's america being a white male is a disadvantage'' and that simply couldn't be further from the truth.




On what occasions is it not the truth?

You're confusing being black with being in poverty. Few establishments this PC day and age will purposely hire whites out of racist causes. FACT: if a black guy and a white guy live in the same neighborhood, as a WHOLE, the black man has a higher chance of getting into any institution.

Quote:

the statistics demonstrated that the slight instances where it could work against you did not have any appreciable affect on white males as a whole.




You keep referring to these statistics as a source, without posting any backing yourself. Real great way to make a foundation for your data.  :thumbup:

Where is the remaining percent out of this chart of yours of where being white helps you get into an establishment? And someone's bias opinion that all the major corporations will only hire white people doesn't count.





i already posted the statistic that a study found people with resumes that had white  sounding names and a criminal record were more likely to be hired than people with resumes that had black sounding names. just the fact that you are suspected of being black already puts you at a worse disadvantage than having a criminal record. i dont have sources because i attended a live debate.  my whole point is that the argument that affrmative action is bad because it puts whites at a disadvantage wasn't even made. youre correct in that there is a difference between socioeconomic status and race but the idea that blacks face additional challenges than just being poor.

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
Male

Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: palmersc]
    #5596383 - 05/05/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

i already posted the statistic that a study found people with resumes that had white sounding names and a criminal record were more likely to be hired than people with resumes that had black sounding names.




First of all, an application (unless it's to a government branch) only asks you if you were convicted of a felony (because it's required by law), not if you had a criminal record. Saying that an ex-con will have a better chance than a clean black man just because his name sounds white is ridiculous.

Also, most black guys do have white sounding last names. Any employer who hires someone based on the sound of their name is too small (or stupid) to be included in any AA survey data.

Second of all, there is no foundation to your argument, at all. All you're saying is "Some guy whose opinion matters because he's important said this, and that's what makes this fact". Don't have their information on hand? Recite it, paraphrase it, but give me the barebones of the argument (which means where, when, and how many people surveyed type data, not 'who said what'). Can't remember it? Then don't use it as an argument.


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010001100100001001000101!

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
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Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
Re: Nigger [Re: Deviate]
    #5596391 - 05/05/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Once again Deviate, as the whitist white man that ever lived I say you have a good post. I do not need to comment beyond agree with your views. I once lived in poverty. The Egyptian man who ran the local grocery store near the projects (I lived very close to there) gave me a break in price because I was white. He told me this himself....and he was not white but brown.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5596450 - 05/05/06 11:50 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)


First of all, an application (unless it's to a government branch) only asks you if you were convicted of a felony (because it's required by law), not if you had a criminal record. Saying that an ex-con will have a better chance than a clean black man just because his name sounds white is ridiculous.



Devah Pager won the ASA distinguished dissertation award (2002) for finding that Whites with felony criminal records are hired for employment at a rate higher then Blacks with no criminal record. (Even when controlling for SES and educational attainment). (Princeton Sociology)
Bertrand and Mullainathan (2002) found that by answering help-wanted ads in Boston and Chicago by sending resumes with “Black-sounding� names and “White-sounding: names that White names elicit 50% more callbacks then Black names and that Whites with higher quality resumes further improve their hiring rate by 30% while Blacks with higher quality resumes have no improvement in hiring. (Chicago School of Economics)


http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:2n6M...s&ct=clnk&cd=11


Also, most black guys do have white sounding last names. Any employer who hires someone based on the sound of their name is too small (or stupid) to be included in any AA survey data.


this article suggests there is an appreciable difference in terms of black vs white sounding names:


Blacks, however, have chosen increasingly distinctive names over the past century, with the trend accelerating during the 1960s.

Researchers who have looked at Census records have found that 100 years ago, the 20 most popular names were largely the same for blacks and whites; now only a handful are among the most popular with both groups. Names like DeShawn and Shanice are almost exclusively black, while whites, whose names have also become increasingly distinctive, favored names like Cody and Caitlin.....
If nothing else, the first paper, by the NBER's Roland Fryer and the University of Chicago's Steven Levitt, based on California birth data, provides probably the most detailed snapshot yet of distinctive naming practices. It shows, for instance, that in recent years, more than 40 percent of black girls were given names that weren't given to even one of the more than 100,000 white girls born in the state the same year.


http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/09/29/national/main575685.shtml

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