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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5592053 - 05/04/06 10:40 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

You think blacks in America are oppressed?

No I don't. Not anymore then we all are. That wasn't what I was getting at.

I'm saying each man is different. There are no "blacks" just like there are no "whites" in reality. There are just lots of individual people. Some are oppressed maybe and some aren't. When you say whites are this or that you are lumping lots of individuals together and imagining that they are all the same.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5592071 - 05/04/06 10:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

to me, the word 'nigga' is just a synonym for 'man', 'dude', 'dog', 'fool', 'bro', etc, etc...

The word 'nigger' on the other hand is basically like the equivalent of calling a white person a 'hick' or 'white trash'. Basically, nigger means a low class black person. It is an insult, for sure, but not necessarily an unjust one. When I hear a rap song about mistreating women and conspicuously consuming, I say "That's nigger music." If I heard a country song about the same thing, I would say "That's redneck/white trash music."

My father always told me never to use the word 'nigger' unless my intent was to insult someone.

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OfflineCUBErt
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
Loc: Southern CA
Last seen: 14 years, 5 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5592073 - 05/04/06 10:46 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Fospher said:
Reverse racism is also racism! Where is the logic in people that are given jobs/education opportunities on the basis of need and not skill?




Agreed entirely. When I was a freshman in high school this black dude who was a senior in one of my classes would always call me "cracka jack." Now I didn't personally mind, it kinda made me chuckle... but it was odd to think what would happen if I responded to him as "mah nigga." Because of the age/size difference I decided not to try and find out.
Something that definitely wasn't acceptable though was this militant (black panthers status) black teacher at school who (eventually!) got fired. This kid I know who had him said he would refer to white kids as "crackers" sometimes. And this teacher was the type of guy who would call you a racist if you referred to something like "black magic" or anything totally unrelated that cast the color black in a negative light.
I don't think either racism or reverse racism is worse than the other. But I think since racism is generally very socially unacceptable now, we are going to see the more subtle reverse racism come into play more often.


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-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:

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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
Re: Nigger [Re: Fospher]
    #5592084 - 05/04/06 10:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Reverse racism is also racism!




There is no need to use the term 'reverse racism'. Racism is racism, no matter who commits it. the modifier 'reverse' is unneccessary, and in fact reinforces the stereotype that white people have a monopoly on racism, which is completely untrue. Turn on UPN and see how many white jokes they tell. Sure there are streets where black people can't walk without getting harassed, but there are also streets where white people can't walk without getting harassed.

Here's an unpopular fact:

White people didn't invent slavery and in fact we have done more to end slavery than any other race on the planet. So minorities, you're welcome. Now quit bitching and get your shit together.

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OfflineFospher
Crime FightingMaster Criminal
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Registered: 02/09/05
Posts: 2,033
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Re: Nigger [Re: Icelander]
    #5592101 - 05/04/06 10:59 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
When you say whites are this or that you are lumping lots of individuals together and imagining that they are all the same.




Not anymore than the job or the school system - and I never imagined/said that they were all the same.

Also, while I don't believe in race infe/superiority, some races are better than others at certain aspects (and may be worse off than others).

Example in point: Norway is the best country to live in. Norway is also extremely Socialistic - almost a Communist nation. A janitor almost gets the same paycheck as a college professor. The country also has the highest school testing. A student would work just as hard independent of his profession. Why would they do this? Why would they work their ass off knowing they aren't going to make more money? Thing is - they work for the pleasure of the job and the welfare of the people, money is not an aspect.

Would this system work in the States? Fuck no! And that's fine, because the United States is not a homogenic nation whatsoever, it is a country of immigrants. Want to work your ass off 16hours/day as a stock broker and drive the latest beamer? Cool. Want to sit on your ass working 20hours/a week as a pizza delivery boy when you're 40? Cool - you're probably going to get benefits as well.

Different races dont just have different skin color - they are different physiologically as well. And it is an obvious fact that your physiological apearance has a dramatic effect on your persona.


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Offlinehot48yearolds
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Re: Nigger [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #5592466 - 05/05/06 01:01 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Huehuecoyotl said:
It is a good policy to always think before acting. If one considers ones actions before acting and accepts the consequences then one can act without fear or second thoughts. If one is experiencing fear or second thoughts it means that by not considering the act you have rejected responsibility for your actions. If you have offended someone you did not intend to offend then tell them so. if they cannot accept it then so be it, your abligation is met. In the future think before opening your mouth. Using ones mouth in an irresponsible manner is the cause of many ass beatings.




I'd have to disagree with this sort of view, i enjoy being more... spontaneous.  :tongue2:


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"Truth is more in the process than in the result."
- J. Krishnamurti




"We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived." Wei Wu Wei

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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
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Re: Nigger [Re: hot48yearolds]
    #5592535 - 05/05/06 01:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)


Fospher said:
Reverse racism is also racism! Where is the logic in people that are given jobs/education opportunities on the basis of need and not skill?


i attended a debate about affirmative action a few months ago. both sides made good points but it was brought up that studies have shown that on resumes where people had ''black sounding names'' they were less likely to get the job than people with white sounding names who had a criminal record. keep in mind they were never interviewed so there wasnt proof they were black. the point of affirmative action is to give qualified black people a chance to perform, not allow unqualified people to take positions over qualified peoole.

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Nigger [Re: FungusMan]
    #5592971 - 05/05/06 05:36 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Why don't YOU try to develop some manners, some class, some grace, some maturity instead?

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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Nigger [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5592979 - 05/05/06 05:44 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Yes...to you that's what you have agreed to allow the word to mean to you because you are programmed like the rest with faulty information. It's not important what YOU have decided a word means, regardless of its bastardized spelling and pronunciation. It is a word that will always be a vehicle for hate no matter how it's used, and by whomever uses it. It is no joke from my perspective that Blacks still hold sufficient self-hatred that they use the word out of familiarity and a participacion mystique - a pre-verbal identification with being Black. It is no joke that Black males seek out White, blue-eyed blonde females as a symbol of their own self-acceptance and the introjected values of White culture. It is no joke that King Kong goes ape for such a female, even though surrounded by Black native women. The same racism from the 1930s found its way into 2006 for the movie remake. Wake Up!


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself

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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Nigger [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5592987 - 05/05/06 05:51 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
the word 'nigger' is only offensive because it is percieved as such





well yea, but what does that change?

Why does a dog bite you when you hit him with a stick? Because he was programed to respond like that. So what do you do? Go around telling everyone how the dog is responsible for his own reactions, or simply try avoiding to provoke him next time?

The fact is some black people get offended by the word, so you have a choice, to offend them or not


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine

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Invisiblegoobler
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Re: Nigger [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5593001 - 05/05/06 06:05 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:


Maybe us white people should come up with a word the we call eachother that no other race is allowed to use. How well do you think that would go over? But guess, what? White people will never do that, because we aren't that fucking stupid in the first place.




yes we do, its called superiority

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OfflineJacquesCousteau
Being.
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Registered: 06/10/03
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Re: Nigger [Re: palmersc]
    #5593037 - 05/05/06 06:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Your use of the word was unintentional, and you meant it in a way that had no malicious intent.

That being said, he still has "the right" to get mad because he is a human being and he has the right to feel how he wants to feel.

You then went on to tell him how wrong HE was, even though you're calm and rational and he is still steaming mad. What do you want to accomplish here? This is an approach that will only raise his temp.

Anyone who has ever had a debate with an over-emotional person should know that over-emotional people tend to have a defense mechanism that kicks in, acting like a wall that will not receive any logic that comes from whom they are being shielded.

You will never change his mind if you do not first soften his defenses. In other words, you need to approach it like: "Look man, I thought about what happened between us, and I just wanted to apologize. That whole thing didn't need to take place... it's not a word I use regularly, and it just sort of happened."

If that doesn't get him to lose the hostility (Which should be your primary goal right now, NOT changing his mind about the subject) then I would just stop trying to talk to him.

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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Re: Nigger [Re: palmersc]
    #5593039 - 05/05/06 06:43 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Take responsibility for the fact that whatever you intended, a thing you did turned to shite.

Its not just a word, its a word with a hideous past. You intended it frivolously but the person who you directed it to took offense.
That makes it your problem.

Taking responsibility for the consequences of your own actions. You know this is what you have to do but kinda try to pull a quicky on yourself.
No such quickies: do the right thing.

Many responses in this thread are just plain sad :frown:


--------------------
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higher knowledge starts here

Edited by Asante (05/05/06 07:09 AM)

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InvisibleFungusMan
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Re: Nigger [Re: Asante]
    #5593115 - 05/05/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I get tired of this, "Its not just a word, it has a past" thing. I dont care what anyone says, nigga and nigger are the same thing. Maybe if THEY would stop using that word, then others would follow.IMHO, there is MORE racism from blacks these days than whites. Hell, blacks even have theyre own cable channels. If white people tried to make a channel called White Entertainment Program, it would get shot down like a nazi prayer group at a Jewish Highschool. They even have theyre own colored history month. WTF?

And if a music group throws up theyre fists Black Power style in a video, Its all good. So, since they have all this racism power, dont deny me the right to call them what they call themselves. F ckin niggers,lol.

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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Nigger [Re: FungusMan]
    #5593165 - 05/05/06 08:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe if THEY would stop using that word, then others would follow.




Isn't that turning the world on its head? This isn't Alice's Wonderland where words mean what you want them to mean, and where the people you are calling names have to change their ways before you grace them by stopping your insults.

Quote:

dont deny me the right to call them what they call themselves.
F ckin niggers,lol.




It's clear where you stand.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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Offlineleery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
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Re: Nigger [Re: FungusMan]
    #5593166 - 05/05/06 08:10 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

you realize almost every channel is a white channel, right?

they shouldn't be calling themselves niggers but neither should you, you know what results its going to provoke.

now if you want to sit one down and have a debate with him on the meaning of the word and share your perceptions, cool. but there's no need to throw the word around just because it doesn't bother YOU because it clearly bothers other people......

be careful when using it is all, or don't use it at all. it is not conducive to healing, understanding, or communication and serves as a barrier of separation. always.

its used by blacks as a barrier, it's used by whites as a barrier. your observations are essentially right, it's ridiciulous that they go out of the way to paint themselves the way that they do, and really all it does is create MORE racism against them like "damn all that rap music and them acting deliberately stupid and speaking slowly"
or whatever

but its their culture, we don't get them back to having equal cultural status with the rest of us by throwing out their epithets.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: Nigger [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5593186 - 05/05/06 08:24 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

mr_kite said:
Whether you meant it as an insult or not the fact is that the word is insulting.




The word is a sound wave and an arrangement of lines. The word has the meaning we give it. If it was not intended as an insult, then it was not an insult. If the person was offended by it regardless, then that is their hang up.

I'd tell him to get over himself. :lol:




As I said, that's being naievely idealistic. The word has not only the meaning you give it, but the meaning that society and history gives it.  Would you say "fucking cunts" to your grandmother? Could you defend saying "fucking cunts" to your grandmother by saying you intended it with a diferent meaning? Unlikely. As I said, one has to be aware of the bigger picture as unfortunately society and the world in general is not as enlightened and objective as yourself. :laugh: If you ignore other people's point of view, whether through ignorance or ideals, then that's extremely self-centered.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: Nigger [Re: FungusMan]
    #5593203 - 05/05/06 08:32 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

FungusMan said:
I get tired of this, "Its not just a word, it has a past" thing. I dont care what anyone says, nigga and nigger are the same thing. Maybe if THEY would stop using that word, then others would follow.IMHO, there is MORE racism from blacks these days than whites. Hell, blacks even have theyre own cable channels. If white people tried to make a channel called White Entertainment Program, it would get shot down like a nazi prayer group at a Jewish Highschool. They even have theyre own colored history month. WTF?

And if a music group throws up theyre fists Black Power style in a video, Its all good. So, since they have all this racism power, dont deny me the right to call them what they call themselves. F ckin niggers,lol.




Consider the thing you are most self-conscious/paranoid about. Maybe you have a disproportionally fat right hand. Maybe you have a huge growth on your chin, that isn't a beard. Of course you could make fun of it, but would you allow someone else to take the piss? This is the same sort of argument. It's all about social awareness, part of being human, part of being a reasonable person.

I know in this forum you can't say anything is right or wrong or good or bad, but Jesus people, calling a black man a nigger and then debating whether he has the right to be offended is a bit anal. Think about it in your head for a while with your reasonable person brain instead of your coldly philosophical brain.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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InvisibleAsante
Omnicyclion prophet
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Re: Nigger [Re: mr_kite]
    #5593236 - 05/05/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

I know in this forum you can't say anything is right or wrong or good or bad, but Jesus people, calling a black man a nigger and then debating whether he has the right to be offended is a bit anal. Think about it in your head for a while with your reasonable person brain instead of your coldly philosophical brain.





I have no doubt whatsoever that these good people will say N*gger out loud surrounded by young black men. Because, let's face it, the word is harmless enough and if they take offense it's their problem, right?





Hands up if you read the above paragraph and thought of violence being committed against the white man. Thats racism people. Racism in a thread called N*gger.


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
higher knowledge starts here

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Nigger [Re: palmersc]
    #5593251 - 05/05/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"I was in some OTHER dudes room and HIS roommate walked in making a ton of noise. I said chill out nigga." etc etc blah blah blah

All I can say is WOW. Let's think about it from the black guy's perspective. He comes home, already pissed off about something, and some white guy he hardly knows tells him to "CHILL OUT NIGGA". In his own CRIB. THEN, the white guy comes back in a couple of hours and wants to tell him to "let go of HIS hate".

To me, it sounds like the black guy was being nice (or maybe he isn't that big) by not:

1. Kicking you out of his dorm room for being a jerk
2. Kicking your ass first

From your story, perhaps he felt sorry for you and took pity. You don't sound particularly "bright". Or if I am being kind I would say you lack understanding and empathy.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.

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