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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
Male

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: DieCommie]
    #5598391 - 05/06/06 05:55 PM (18 years, 17 days ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Tax Cuts  :thumbup:

People always say the tax cuts were only for the wealthy, but that is simply not true.  I earn below the poverty line, and I received a significant tax cut.




Now how does that work?  If you earn below the poverty line you're not even paying income tax, are you?


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No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: quillini]
    #5599019 - 05/06/06 09:24 PM (18 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

quillini said:
Quote:

DieCommie said:
Tax Cuts  :thumbup:

People always say the tax cuts were only for the wealthy, but that is simply not true.  I earn below the poverty line, and I received a significant tax cut.




Now how does that work?  If you earn below the poverty line you're not even paying income tax, are you?




Just, you know, thinking out loud here.  How did you get a tax cut?


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: quillini]
    #5602625 - 05/07/06 08:59 PM (18 years, 15 days ago)

yea....


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Offlinegregorio
Too Damn Old
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Registered: 09/08/05
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: Le_Canard]
    #5603975 - 05/08/06 03:54 AM (18 years, 15 days ago)

Quote:

ToiletDuk said:
Plenty of new jobs at Wal-Mart, McDonald's and Taco Bell. Meanwhile good paying industrial jobs get shipped to Mexico, China and India. Way to go George! :laugh:




I blame that on NAFTA.

Way to go Bill.

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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: gregorio]
    #5608355 - 05/09/06 11:31 AM (18 years, 14 days ago)

So all the jobs are going to China and India because of NAFTA? I thought NAFTA was for North America?


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: downforpot]
    #5608391 - 05/09/06 11:43 AM (18 years, 14 days ago)

NAFTA is just North America, but the fact is we are liberalising trade with all sorts of countries. gregorio has a point that economically, Bush and Clinton are virtually the same.

I think overall this will turn out positive, although we could do without the tax cuts for the rich, and we could use a higher minwage.

Better yet, how about tying minwage to the consumer price index, like congress did with their salaries? Then we wouldn't have to raise hell all the time to get better wages. If we indeed have a rising economy (which we do), then we should also have rising wages.

Or does that make too much sense?


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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Offlinegluke bastid
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5608784 - 05/09/06 01:26 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

To say that job are on the rise and poverty is decreasing is bullshit.




No it isn't. It's factual. At least it's factual in the US. I won't speak for other countries.

Quote:

You know what is happening because of the tax cuts? The middle-class is getting pushed out.




They are getting pushed into higher earnings brackets. Why is this a problem?

Quote:

It is statisticaly proven right now.




Incorrect.

Quote:

The rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.




Some rich are getting richer, yes. Some poor are getting poorer, yes. But in the US more poor are getting richer than are getting poorer.





Can you prove all this? I'm not saying that in a smarmy way, I'm just honestly flummoxed  :confused: I thought it was pretty much agreed on by everyone that poverty and joblessness have been increasing since 9/11


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
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Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 255
Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5608853 - 05/09/06 01:47 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Forgive me if I'm speaking in ignorance, which is possible, but doesn't "earning bracket" really mean "tax bracket"? So to be pushed into a higher earning bracket has nothing to do with making more money, but really means you're paying a higher percentage in taxes, right? That would be a "bad thing".

Again, maybe I have it all wrong, but while poverty has gone up, it's not necessarily true that joblessness has gone up. It seems as though the trend is not so much unemployment as it is underemployment. In other words, jobs have been created, a significant number of them actually, but these are shitty unstable part-time jobs with no benefits and no future. Like Walmart, for example. I only say Walmart because I used to work there, and let me tell you, it's like a human wasteland. Lots of Walmart employees are on gov't assistance. In fact, Walmart even offers services to its employees to help them get on gov't assistance.

There's a whole class of people in this country who are forced to live like animals and would probably be better off on welfare, were it not for their pride. They work their asses off instead, and for what? You can't afford your own apartment on Walmart wages.

Where's the goddamn tax break for these people?


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
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Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: quillini]
    #5608873 - 05/09/06 01:52 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Yea, the wages need to be raised. I will not work for fucking 6 dollars an hour. 10 dollars an hour, AT LEAST.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: downforpot]
    #5608913 - 05/09/06 02:05 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Yea, the wages need to be raised. I will not work for fucking 6 dollars an hour. 10 dollars an hour, AT LEAST.




Come to me. I will pay you $10 an hour, as long as you have no physical infirmities. You will leave me with a skill too, lessons for which I won't charge you.


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
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Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5608926 - 05/09/06 02:11 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

I thought it was pretty much agreed on by everyone that poverty and joblessness have been increasing since 9/11




Let me guess. Pretty much everyone you have spoken to who agrees is liberal. As Reagan once said, “It’s not that liberals don’t know anything; it’s just that they know so many things that aren’t so.”

You say pretty much everyone agrees on this? Everyone who never bothers to read the economic news, maybe. But the US economy has being going like gangbusters for at least three years now. That's not difficult to confirm, though the MSM has certainly not played it up. (Gee, I wonder why THAT might be? -- ed.)

Unemployment -- 4.7% That's as close to what economists consider full employment as you can get, really, and better than it was through almost all of Clinton's eight years.

Net wealth -- the average net wealth of Americans is at an all time high, as is the median net wealth of American families. That's in terms of both absolute dollars and inflation adjusted dollars.

Rate of growth -- The preliminary figure for growth in the last quarter was an annualized rate of 4/8%. That will almost certainly be adjusted upwards, since the preliminary numbers are ALWAYS on the low side. Growth rate has been just under 4% OR EVEN HIGHER for something like fourteen quarters in a row now.

Stock market -- The Dow is within a hundred points or so of its all time high. Admittedly, when adjusted for inflation it falls short of the absolute peak of the dotcom stock bubble in 2000, but remember that was an irrational frenzied speculative bubble with no solid base to it. This is REAL valuation.

Housing -- more Americans own their own houses than ever before

Tax receipts -- due to Bush's tax cuts, government tax receipts from both corporations and individuals are at an all time high as well.

Consumer confidence figures higher than at any time in the last ten years. Durable goods, productivity numbers, housing starts -- all at or near all time highs.

It is true that the government system of classification ludicrously continues to define as "poor" that group of people who own their own houses, multiple cars, air conditioning, multiple TVs, etc. But that doesn't mean there really are 37 million poor people living in the US, nor does it mean the "poor" are getting "poorer".

I (and others) have contributed numerous posts on this subject in the past. I don't have the time to dig them all up today, but then again it's not up to me to do so. It's up to DavidandGoliath to prove his assertion that in the US the middle class is getting "pushed out" and that "the poor are getting poorer". He claims it is statistically proven. Let's see the statistics.




Phred


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Offlinegluke bastid
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Registered: 12/20/00
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5609138 - 05/09/06 03:02 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Jesus man, I was just asking you to elaborate, I wasn't attacking you, and then you come back at me and bash me (yet again) for being a liberal. You might make more converts if you took it easy once in awhile.  :smirk:

But anyway thanks for the information.    :heart:


--------------------
:hst:
Society in every form is a blessing,
but government at its best is but a necessary evil
 
- Thomas Paine

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OfflinePhred
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: gluke bastid]
    #5609177 - 05/09/06 03:12 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Did I say you were a liberal? No, I did not. I speculated that the people you had been speaking to about the subject were liberals, because that would explain the near-unanimity of the false beliefs you have heard about the US economy.

As for me making "converts", I couldn't care less about making converts. From long experience I know the information I provided above will be ignored by pretty much every Leftie who reads it. The odds of converting a Leftie with facts is essentially zero: if Lefties cared about facts they wouldn't be Lefties in the first place.

The reason I point out inaccuracies is not to convert Lefties (or even Libbies), but to prevent the undecided from joining the Leftie herd because they buy arguments based on spurious "facts". Think of it more as a holding action than an advance.



Phred


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5609211 - 05/09/06 03:26 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
The odds of converting a Leftie with facts is essentially zero: if Lefties cared about facts they wouldn't be Lefties in the first place.




Ouch.

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Offlinequillini
one meanmotorscooter
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Registered: 04/18/06
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Last seen: 2 years, 1 month
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: Phred]
    #5609585 - 05/09/06 05:23 PM (18 years, 14 days ago)

OK Phred, this is all good, but...

Please explain this to me like I'm in 3rd grade, because my dumb leftie ass is a little slow on the uptake:

How are the Bush tax cuts responsible for any of this? I'm not saying they're not, but when you don't earn enough to pay taxes, a tax cut doesn't do you a lot of good, does it? And has this supply-side strategy resulted in any good jobs (high wage, benefits, retirement, a future), or just service-sector bullshit?

And how do tax cuts make sense when you're fighting a war?

I'm being genuine here; I want something to say next time someone says "Bush and his tax cuts can suck it". Give me links. Give me numbers.


--------------------
No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility.

Only connect...

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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 2,511
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: downforpot]
    #5618263 - 05/11/06 05:42 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
Quote:

RedAlgae said:
His tax cuts helped me make a lot of money over the past five years with my investments. GDP increased and there are more jobs to go around. Add to that low inflation and you can see why the Republicans are the saviors of humanity. If it wasn't for the Republicans, the whole world would be in the dark ages under the control of the Soviet Union and Islamofascists.




Jobs? What kinda jobs? All the scientists are gettin the fuck out of USA and the ones that aren't are working on making dog food taste better and make your dick harder. As for real research that helps human kind progress, well, that is outside of US.

If things don't turn around in this place, I'll finish college here and get out ASAP. Sad to a see a country going down the wrong path.

Oh yea, and the poverty rate is going up. So much for the tax cuts. We need a Clinton. A guy that gets head while getting shit done.



I'm a scientist, and I know about 50 other scientists. Not one of them, nor anyone they know is leaving the US. Where is your source for this/


--------------------
.

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InvisibleRedAlgae
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Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 10
Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #5618312 - 05/11/06 05:59 PM (18 years, 12 days ago)

The truth shines through and the liars are shamed once again!


http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/5392635#Post5392635

Edited by RedAlgae (05/11/06 06:01 PM)

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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #5618398 - 05/11/06 06:17 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1156575,00.html


http://www.conference-board.org/articles/atb_article.cfm?id=269&pg=2

http://www.mathmovesu.com/pdf/crisis.pdf

http://oemagazine.com/newscast/2005/051205_newscast01.html

Not only are scientists leaving, undergaduates are switching to business majors, less foreign students are attending our universities, less government funding for research. Elementary and high school students are also less interested in science.

However, teaching science is still profitable but when it comes to pouring billions into research in order to compete with the rest of the world, we are falling behind and the rest of the world is catching up.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"

Edited by downforpot (05/11/06 06:19 PM)

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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: downforpot]
    #5618703 - 05/11/06 07:36 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

I hate how everybody talks about people like they are either conservative or liberal... Like there isn't a whole fucking spectrum of possibilities. One or the other  :whatever:


--------------------
HELP!!!!!!!!!

Edited by EquilibriuM (05/11/06 11:13 PM)

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OfflineArcofaJourney
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Re: Thank you, George Bush [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5619443 - 05/11/06 11:08 PM (18 years, 11 days ago)

You're right, the McDonalds and Wendy's up the srteet ARE hiring, damn...the job market is booming!!! If the economy is so damn great than why has the poverty rate in this country increased by 12% each of the last 4 years? Why is it that in 1960 CEOs made 40% more than their employess and now they make 600% more? Why has the % of uninsured kept rising? Why has the cost of living gone up, but real wages gone down? Seems fishy... As Neil Young says "Good times are comin'...but they sure are comin' slow..."

Edited by ArcofaJourney (05/11/06 11:09 PM)

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