Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Topicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1
InvisibleMike_yy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 7,253
Improvising on Guitar ?
    #5590472 - 05/04/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Ive been playing guitar for around two years, mostly just learning songs using guitar pro.

I never learnt how to use a pic properly, but i finger pick alot and this is what i love !!

Ive got myself up to a good standard and i think i can now learn and play most songs,
but i really suck at improvising.

Ive spent time learning about keys, the chords in them and abit about corresponding scales.

I know quite alot but ive no idea at all how to use it practically.

It might just be that im useless i dont know but i feel like ive missed a point somewhere.

Can anyone help me with any tips, or things they first used to get themselves in improvising.

Man i love my guitar but i get bored of the same old sounding tunes i knock out day after day.

I need to feel free on it !!

Any help or 'good' links would be really appreciated !!

:cool:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5590584 - 05/04/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Man, improvising is probably my favorite part of guitar. What I would suggest is learn all the keys, scales, and chords in the scales. Then, I would find some blues songs that you like (for me its a lot of eric clapton and george benson) and learn their solos. Once you have their solos down experiment with your own over their chord progression. Thats what I have been doing for a couple years and it really pays off. Im not some insane soloist like Steve Vai or Joe Satriani, but for my music I can improvise pretty well.

Check out the song Lights Out on my bands myspace page www.myspace.com/angelicrock

The lead part was done after the chord progression. I just hit record and made some stuff up as the song was playing in my headphones. I did one take on both the lead and the rythme.

If you have any questions let me know.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMike_yy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 7,253
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #5590778 - 05/04/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So basically your just laying down a rhythm, then using the right scale to play over it.

When you play your solo notes are they random or do they have to correspond to the chords your using. Like if you switch to an A chord, do you have to play an A note to make it sound right ( sorta like a leading note ).

Also do you ever just sit and pick tunes out without having a rhythm to play against.
This is what im really interested in. I hear so many amazing tunes. I even have good sounds in my head, but when i pick up my guitar i always feel like i don't know where to go next.
I tend to use chords alot when im doing this but everything seems to sound the same.
What would be a good thing for me to start learning to add some more interest to my music, is it just a case of learning more variations of chords ?

Thanks for the link.
I really liked your tune, i think sitting and playing sounds like that could keep me happy for a lifetime.
Simple but effective, the rhythms are cool too, i liked your changes !.
Keep up the good work  :thumbup:

Thanks for your help !


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisibleeligal
Noobie

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/25/05
Posts: 7,021
Loc: California
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5590803 - 05/04/06 05:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

man, i have yet to learn a full song... :ashamed:
i would learn an intro, or a chorus, but never the full song... and only did this when first learning to play...

and other than that i only do improvisation, and honestly, i have jsut started actually trying to learn songs from other artists (the full songs). improvising can be piss easy! jsut memorize a few scales n shit, and then limit yourself to those notes... even before i knew scales n shit i was already improvising, just play around with some random notes until you find patterns which sound good, and then mix them up. eventually you will memorize these patterns along with the scales, etc, and you jsut put it together and get some amazing tunes!

to start off with i suggest blues scales. they are very simple and with a shuffle rhythm it sounds pretty good! and blues scales are used in many rock solos :thumbup:


--------------------
\m/ Spanksta \m/

"do you have the freedom to do with your nervous system what you want?"

"MolokoMilkPlus said:
I'll respect you if you let me give you a blow job"

"tactik said:
respect the can."



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5590846 - 05/04/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

This is where music theory comes in Mikey. If you want to improvise over something, you need to know the key it is in. The key will let you know every note you can play over any chord in that key. For example, in the key of G the notes are G A B C D E F#. So, your chords would be G Am Bm C D Em and F#dim. If you know how to play those specific chords you can come up with some simple progression, record it, and then go back to improvise over it. If you dont know where every note on the guitar is, put your guitar into standard tuning (EADGBe) and look up the G major scale using google. The Gmajor scale has only the notes in the key of G. Once you have the different scales memorized and you can go to each fret with ease, experiment with different things. My style of lead is different than most because I use a lot of blues style, but without the blues scales. Simple, yet nice. You will find over time that you have your own unique style of playing lead and it will develope as you keep trying new things and figuring out what you like. At first, it really is hit or miss. I would also suggest buying a book or video on music theory. It will greatly improve your knowledge of music which in turn will make your music more complex.


--------------------


There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestemmer
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,672
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: AaronEvil]
    #5590873 - 05/04/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thats some good advise yall....

I dont know how to read music and have no idea what note I am ever playing when improvising. But I can hold my own with the best of them. Pick up on how to play a few of Gerry's favorite improv riffs.
Spit some blues out your ass using any scales you know.
It all falls into place slowely but surely.

My method was always simply playing to my favorite jazz, Dead, funk, and phish recordings,(preferably live ones).
Granted when the music gets really strange I have a hard time improvising unless I know the tune by heart(the downside of being damn good, but learning by ear at the same time).....
Imitation preceded any innovation when it came to my musical development.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinephantomstranger
Stranger

Registered: 12/17/05
Posts: 285
Last seen: 6 years, 2 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5591019 - 05/04/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You sound exactly where I am right now. I been playing a couple years in august and i've improved so much since i started playing but the thing is I spend all my time just learning other artists songs and i'll have a blast just playing along with my stereo.

I know what you mean about hearing a kickass riff in your head but when you sit down to play it it just comes out all wrong. The only time I've ever been able to be creative and original is when i'm under the influence of something and then its really a blast.

I've never taken lessons so I know very little about music and improvising and basic music theory. Even though I always have fun playing I feel like I'm going about learning the wrong way. If anyone has any good sites or links that helped them improve when they first started playing I'd love to give it a look.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMike_yy
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 7,253
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: phantomstranger]
    #5591083 - 05/04/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Your exactly the same as me !
Ive never had any lessons, and i always feel like ive missed something out.
Ive gone through quite abit of theory, and i think that made things worse because once i understood alot of it, my playing didn't seem to get that much better.
I have a basic idea of things but somethings not quite right.

Ive always used guitar pro to learn songs, i think it might make things abit too easy cos you can listen to your tabs, and it tells you where and when to play your notes.

Its good but it would probably be better in the long run doing it the normal way, listening to the real songs to learn.

All that advice helps alot. I think i just need to learn some more keys, and get familier with more scales.
Then just practise them alot.
Do that and you have to get better eventually,    hopefully.

Some tried and tested links would be good tho if anybody has any  :smile:

Thanks All.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMLBjammer
Invitro Freak
Male User Gallery

Registered: 02/24/06
Posts: 560
Loc: Southeastern USA
Last seen: 7 years, 14 days
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5591721 - 05/04/06 09:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well you should learn the CAGED system--or just using the aforementioned chord shapes to manuever around the fretboard. And develop a sense of melody--playing lead is like singing--too many jamband players are monotonous and lifeless in their soloing. If you learn how to play rhythm all over the neck--lead becomes much easier. I have played for 18 years but I learn every day. GL.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineSapphireCat
Seeker
Male

Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 613
Loc: Ireland
Last seen: 13 years, 1 month
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: MLBjammer]
    #5591924 - 05/04/06 09:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i actually play the bass and not the guitar, but with improv it's all the same really, as MLBjammer said, get used to moving round the fretboard, practice arpeggios to get ur finger speed up, and from there: it's just all to do with your musical ear, just play along to things, doesn't matter if it sounds terrible, at some stage it sorta just like starts clicking and from there it gets easier and easier. Start slow aswell, don't try to go for some huge long fast paced improv or anything at the start.


--------------------
Beauty of style and harmony and grace and good rhythm depend on Simplicity ~Plato


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinestemmer
Stranger
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 2,672
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: MLBjammer]
    #5591969 - 05/04/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Id love to hear what jam band improv work you think is monotonous. If it was treys guitar work(from phish) that would be really funny))...


Those who like mahavishnu john, and those who like jerry are one and the same. I love that. that.......

Jerry garcia learned the wrong way, and he still knew alot about music..........

0..0
0.0
0.0
0.0
0..0
0..0 -------------< first string(high E)

The innovation is a sort of a fractal that emanates from this design.
Know your key even if you dont know what to call it.
Just bend the fourth string in the scale.....that says it all.


Edited by stemmer (05/04/06 10:12 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineManianFHS
living in perverty
 User Gallery

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 14,741
Last seen: 1 day, 9 hours
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5592863 - 05/05/06 03:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

playing about 10 years -

i would say stay away from the scales - play them a few times (in different positions as much as possible) but dont try hard to memorize them

learn the blues scale - not just the minor pentatonic the whole blues scale - and play this always in different positions and keys

dont let your hands get used to plying the same crap over and over -
be innovative -
some of the best solos (artistically speaking) were form people who knew very little theory - they played from their hearts and ears and did what felt right -0

if you can hear the note you want to make in a solo - fuckit man thats good enough - improve on that instinct

i would say try as little as possible to rely on theory to improvise

use your soul baby!!!


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblepsyka
Praetorian
 User Gallery

Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: Mike_yy]
    #5593006 - 05/05/06 06:07 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You have to start digesting solo's in terms of the chords that they employ. For example, a solo in a Dm progression might brush over the note that corresponds with a Dm7 chord (which is a G). The G harmonizes in the solo because you can substitude a Dm7 chord with a Dm. You could also substitute the Dm7 chord with an Am chord. Its all preference. Developing this preference will develop your own style. Write your own songs analytically. You must first walk before you begin to soar.

Learn to formulate chords, learn your penatonic scales. The rest of the scales are basically penatonic with just 2 extra notes. Learn modes and how to stay in key. Buy a metronome to keep time... and for technique remember strength comes from relaxation. The more relaxed your playing hand that is, the better you will sound. The less strain on your wrist the better. Put 20% of the burden on your fingers and the 80% in the mind.

EDIT -- WHOOPS. The 7 of D is C not G. G is the 4th... it still harmonizes strongly, however.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.



Edited by psyka (05/05/06 06:35 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappa
please excusethe filth, yourmom was justhere
Female User Gallery

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 256
Loc: motor city madness
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: psyka]
    #5620428 - 05/12/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

im in a blues band, and we do a lot of stevie ray vaughan stuff in our shows. well, we have this one song that we do, where were we took riffs, solos, and other little bits out of a bunch of his songs and put it all together. its like a huge collage with a bunch of solos over it. since its not really an acctuall song, you can put whatever parts you want where ever you want. then its easier to build up solos and lead into improv.

try doing a song like that from your favotite artist. you can even mix bands of the same genre. i did another one with hendrix, jefferson airplane, the doors, pink floyd, and cream


--------------------
:blackspy: :whitespy: :snowman: :farmerdance: :scaryshroom: :bananahorsey: :bananabang:

I :heart: GARY SINISE!!!!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinezappa
please excusethe filth, yourmom was justhere
Female User Gallery

Registered: 02/23/06
Posts: 256
Loc: motor city madness
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: zappa]
    #5620530 - 05/12/06 09:44 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

i also did one with stevie ray vaughan and jimi hendrix, because he loved jimi, and did a lot of tribute songs to him


--------------------
:blackspy: :whitespy: :snowman: :farmerdance: :scaryshroom: :bananahorsey: :bananabang:

I :heart: GARY SINISE!!!!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetoastandjam
Tastes Grate, Lesh Philling
Male User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 05/07/06
Posts: 752
Last seen: 13 years, 2 months
Re: Improvising on Guitar ? [Re: zappa]
    #5622449 - 05/12/06 07:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I've been playing for about 6 years and the vast majority of my playing is improvisational. I don't know any music theory at all. I can't read music.

The bit someone said about hearing a solo in your head and having it come out all wrong-- that's a great thing. Hearing it in your head. Whistle as you walk. Before you fall asleep at night, imagine your own melodies, hum to yourself. All of these develop the uninhibited flow of your musical idea. Stopping to think about where you're going slows you down, so the process needs to be nearly automatic.

When you break a string, don't replace it immediately. Retune and play without it for a week or two. You'll be surprised how much your playing changes without that color in your pallette.

Alternatively, I recommend tuning your guitar so that all the tuning keys are straight in line and the instrument is out of tune with itself. Play the guitar like this for a while. Your familiar patterns will be unavailable, and you'll be forced to rely on what you've found so far, and what you can imagine doing with it.

Play slowly and deliberately at first, start with one note. Develop rhythm. Add another note. Keep time. Once you have more and more notes in the phrases that you're writing and a solid rhythm developed, you'll be able to slip into a state of mind where the ideas just flow out of you.

Dont worry about missing. bend the note up, slide up or down to make it fit and keep playing. Play nonsense sometimes. Just "this finger goes here now". This will develop your ability to put your fingers in unusual, unfamiliar combinations so that you're playing a sound more than playing notes or patterns to make sound.

Edit: Oh yeah, and get yourself a pick already! You don't have to use it all the time, but to not have proficiency with one is denying yourself an entire aspect of the instrument. If there were someone that played all pickedly, with no fingers, I'd tell em to go learn some as well.


--------------------
Q: We wanted to see if you had the ability to expand your mind and your horizons... and for one brief moment, you did.
PICARD: When I realized the paradox...
Q: Exactly. For that one fraction of a second, you were open to options you'd never considered. That's the exploration that awaits you...not mapping stars and studying nebulae... but charting the unknowable possibilities of existence.

To carry yourself forward and experience myriad things is delusion. That myriad things come forth and experience themselves is awakening. -Dogen Zenji


Edited by toastandjam (05/12/06 07:41 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1

Shop: Original Sensible Seeds High THC Strains   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Topicals   Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* What's wrong with my guitar tuning?
( 1 2 all )
BrAiN 2,673 23 11/04/07 09:14 AM
by BrAiN
* Basswood guitars - your opinion nonoman 2,572 8 02/23/05 05:42 AM
by nonoman
* J.S. Bach- 2 Part Invention #4 in Dm on guitar
( 1 2 3 all )
spores 6,659 40 01/20/05 07:42 AM
by spores
* the gnitty gritty motions of chords (guitar) BrAiN 1,329 11 06/21/05 07:06 PM
by BrAiN
* What Guitar? Jackenobi 455 4 02/23/09 01:05 PM
by Jackenobi
* New guitar Captain Loafy McPoopdick 1,194 12 05/06/05 09:18 AM
by otoroko
* Improve Playing by 20% Derelict 957 6 02/16/06 06:25 PM
by Shroomism
* Guitar Scales Darcho 1,507 19 01/15/05 06:51 PM
by Hendostan

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, automan, DividedQuantum
1,344 topic views. 0 members, 1 guests and 2 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.024 seconds spending 0.006 seconds on 14 queries.