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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Registered: 11/06/04
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Ghettofied
    #5588807 - 05/04/06 01:26 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Trying to make a stir plate, had a few questions.

Red = +
Black = -

Correct?

I've got a computer fan, says DC 12V on it...The charged I found (got like 3), one says it has....

Input = 120V ; 60hz ; 6W
Output = 4.5 DC450mA

I think that's the one NOT to use :smirk: :lol:

NEXT

Input = 120V ; 60hz ; 5.3W
Output = DC 4.5V=600mA

Not really sure what ALL of it means...:rolleyes:

Going to do some more reading and look for some other adaptors and such.

Any input would be much appreaciated...

I won't be plugging anything in or anything like that, not until I know exactly what i'm doing....

-Gnostic


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5588840 - 05/04/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hmmmmmmmmm......

Got kind of creative and used a 9v battery instead...works great :smile:

If I can't find an adaptor or anything then i'll just go with the battery...Maybe put an lc on it once a day, just long enough to break up the mycelium really well...

Either way, :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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InvisibleDIRTYMAN
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5588841 - 05/04/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I got someone else to do it for me because I'm in the same boat as you. No clue about the electronic stuff, sorry  :sun:

Make sure you get a really strong magnet, cheapo radioshack ones won't cut it (believe me). I don't think it has to be exactly centered either, but the more it is the faster the fan goes.


--------------------
I'm racist.                http://k-k-k.com/


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: DIRTYMAN]
    #5588845 - 05/04/06 01:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I was going to use something from work to help me center it...:grin:

As for the adaptor part :shrug:...no idea what to do yet...

I was going to use the magnet from my old hard-drive...but...I don't know what it looks like :evil:...So it's kind of difficult...hahah...All I know is what shape the magnet is...No idea which part it is, hahah :smirk:

-Gnostic


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InvisibleDIRTYMAN
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5588849 - 05/04/06 01:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

My buddy who made the stirrer also builds computers, and he had no clue that hard drives have magnets. He did however know that there are extremely tiny yet powerful magnets in some CD players, but even these with the cheap radioshack magnets don't do the trick. Anyone know a good magnet connect (no pun intended)?


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I'm racist.                http://k-k-k.com/


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: DIRTYMAN]
    #5588865 - 05/04/06 01:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Lol :smirk:...

Hmm...Do speakers have magnets?...:shrug:...

-Gnostic


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Invisibledysphoria
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5588980 - 05/04/06 02:38 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

speakers do have magnets.
in fact ive even attempted to harvest them from two aiwa subs that have gone out, but yet i was too lazy to throw out.

the problem is, i cant separate the two circular magnets from the metal base without crushing/destroying the intact magnet. =/

oh, and i tried harvesting a magnet out of my old hard drive, but it turns out that its a really weak magnet. western digital...of all things. i kinda expected a decent magnet out of a decent hdd maker.

-jb


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5588995 - 05/04/06 02:49 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Input = 120V ; 60hz ; 6W
Output = 4.5 DC450mA





Look for a transformer with a 12V DC (Direct Current as opposed to AC, Alternating Current) output, current (450mA in the one quoted) needs to be at least around 200mA.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: Akamatsu]
    #5589126 - 05/04/06 05:41 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

needs to be at least around 200mA.




What does the mA stand for?...:rolleyes:

Thanks for that info. btw...Now I know what Ac/Dc meant on the bottom of that sewing machine :smirk:

-Gnostic


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Offlinepurokogi
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: DIRTYMAN]
    #5589130 - 05/04/06 05:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

DIRTYMAN said:
My buddy who made the stirrer also builds computers, and he had no clue that hard drives have magnets. He did however know that there are extremely tiny yet powerful magnets in some CD players, but even these with the cheap radioshack magnets don't do the trick. Anyone know a good magnet connect (no pun intended)?




your friend who "builds" computers didnt know this? lol  :smirk:


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589136 - 05/04/06 05:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
What does the mA stand for?...:rolleyes:





Milliamps


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: Akamatsu]
    #5589140 - 05/04/06 05:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

needs to be at least around 200mA.




What would be considered to much(mA)?....lol

-Gnostic


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589145 - 05/04/06 06:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
What would be considered to much(mA)?....lol




The fan will only draw as much as it needs. So as long as there is enough, the current rating doesn't really matter.


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: Akamatsu]
    #5589149 - 05/04/06 06:06 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:thumbup:

*Begins the hunt*

Thanks for the help man!

-Gnostic


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589158 - 05/04/06 06:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So i'm basically looking around for....

Input = 120V ; 60hz ; 6W
Output = 12V DC DC200mA (or lower)

Correct?

-Gnostic


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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589174 - 05/04/06 06:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

exactly. input doesn't matter because you are in the US and all the input is going to be the same. output is what you will need to look at.

if you have a 12v DC fan you need a 12 volt DC output power source. 9 volt batterie works because it is a DC power and isn't 12 volts but will provide enough to spin the fan.

see what is in your wall is a alternating current or AC power, and what the ac addaptor is doing is transfering the ac power into dc.

sorry if i got to in depth but i'm an electrician at heart.


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OfflineAkamatsu
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589198 - 05/04/06 07:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

IGnosticAbhorI said:
Output = 12V DC DC200mA (or lower)

Correct?




Getting there. The DC only applies to the voltage (i.e. no DC before current rating), and I would recommend 200mA or higher, not lower. Most adaptors will have at lease that, so all you really need to look for is one with an output of 12 V.


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OfflineAtemi
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: Akamatsu]
    #5589204 - 05/04/06 07:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Deleted: reason - need to get used to these forums lol


Edited by Atemi (05/04/06 07:21 AM)


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5589426 - 05/04/06 09:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Gnostic: First, your'e correct on the wiring but really, since it's DC, don't worry about it. If you hook it up backward it's roughly the same as putting batteries into a radio in the wrong direction. It won't work but it won't really hurt anything, either.

If your fan is 12VDC then you'll need a transformer with an output of 12VDC. You might be able to get it to spin with something lower but I wouldn't even bother if it was under 9VDC.

Stop by your local Rat Shack and ask if they have any spare adapters kicking around out back they'd be willing to give to you. Every store has a pile of them.

And don't worry about waiting until you know "exactly what you're doing." We're talking about low DC voltage and really low amperage. Just don't lick the contacts while it's plugged in. =)

Now on to the battery idea.

Each battery provides 1.5VDC so you'd need 9 batteries to make 12VDC. Figure that batteries cost roughly $0.50 each, give or take, so that's about $4.50 in batteries to provide 12VDC of power.

IIRC, your average battery offers something like 2000mah which is way of saying that it'll provide 2 amps of power for an hour. If your fan is sucking down, say, 200ma, then your batteries will provide about ten hours of power at 12VDC. Blowing about ten bucks for power for every day of service is ridiculous. Spend $15 if you absolutely must and get yourself an adapter. Again, Radio Shack.

And with all due respect to InvisibleAkamatsu, you want to find a supply with amperage equal or higher. Amperage is just the capacity to draw. So if you have a power supply that gives out 3 amps of power and your device only needs 1 amp, no problem at all. The three amp supply will only "give out" one amp. But if you need three amps of power and your supply only gives one amp, then you're screwed because the device will try to "pull down" more load than the supply can provide.

Again, you can ALWAYS go higher on amperage when it comes to power supply. The opposite is true for voltage -- never go higher, always try to match the correct number.

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Offlineskeletor
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: splifner180]
    #5589536 - 05/04/06 10:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

HAHAH i was going over all this electronic crap with splif last night on pm's. i was also wondering about the adapters. so far i found my way up to this old phone one 9 V 210 mA. i figure this is do the trick im going to try later today when i go grab the fan and magnet off someone.
i also have a nokia cell charger output 3,7V / 340 mA. this one has less Volts but more mA... for the little i think i know the first one will work better. guess i'll tell you how it works later haha.


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im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.

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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: splifner180]
    #5589594 - 05/04/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

skeletor: Having more amps doesn't do you any good. All amps are is potential for juice.

Pretend that your garden hose is your power source. Think of the voltage as the diameter of the hose and the amperage as the knob you use to turn on the water.

Now suppose you're hooking that hose up to a sprinkler system on your lawn. Obviously the hoses need to match size (voltage). And obviously, the spigot knob (amperage) can be turned up but only so far. For the sake of argument, pretend the sprinkler system can control the spigot knob.

Once you've got the correct hose size (voltage) then you can connect the two systems. But if you try to connect more sprinklers than the hose can provide pressure (amps) for, the system won't work properly. The water won't go far enough and maybe the pressure won't even be enough to make that clack-clack-clack ratcheting action that causes the head to turn.

Hopefully that makes sense.

Ultimately, all you have to remember is make the voltage match exactly and make the amperage equal to or greater than the amp rating on the device(s) you have attached. You can go lower on voltage BUT it may work poorly or not at all.

Never go higher on voltage unless you're prepared to possibly destroy whatever you're attaching the power to. A good example is our goal here, spinning a fan. Who knows, maybe 13.5VDC wouldn't destroy the fan and give you extra spin.

Are you willing to possibly destroy a fan to find out? If so, fire that sucker up! =)

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: splifner180]
    #5589784 - 05/04/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well this will confuse everyone i'm sure, your analogy gets the point across but is pretty well wrong.  its semantics i know but as an electrical guy i can't keep letting this slide ;-)

using your terminology:

voltage = potential = how far open you turn on the tap (V)
hose size (including things attached to the hose) = resistance (R)
current = resulting flow (I)

ohms law: V = I*R or I = V / R or R = V / I

power (watts) = V*I  (in case you come across a wattage rating instead of voltage/amp ratings, you can figure it out just as well.)

your fan is the "R" value.  it is what is resisting the flow of current from the voltage source.  it's like the hose.  if it says for example 12VDC/0.35A its providing roughly 34ohms of resistance.  it draws 4.2 watts of power.  these are useful numbers if you want to use  a potentiometer (a dial) to control the speed of your fan.  a typical pot might provide variable resistance from 0-35ohms up to 5 watts and would work great here.  wired in series with your fan you can then adjust your circuit R value from its initial 34ohms up to 69ohms, basically allowing you to go from half speed to full speed.  hence, turning up the resistance allows less current to flow.  motor speed is related to current flow.  it spins faster with more voltage, but if you look at the ohms law formula that should explain why.

output current rating (as written on a power supply) = maximum it can safely provide.  its not a like hitting a brick wall.  it WILL provide more, given a lower resistance.  it will also overheat and cook itself if you get carried away.

10% tolerances are very common in electric devices like these.  meaning you can generally safely use a voltage +/- 10% different than whats called for.  so with your example 13.5V to a 12V fan is pushing it ever so slightly, it would probably work just fine though.  when we're loading a magnet on that fan then a jar of liquid above it, we're adding mechanical resistance to the fan, which in turn increases its electrical resistance.  so its spinning slower.  its not drawing as much current as it says on the sticker.  using a slightly higher voltage again will help over come that, but at the possibility of stressing the fan to the point of failure.

dont mean to get technical on people but THAT above is the correct explanation. :smile:


Edited by creamcorn (05/04/06 12:03 PM)


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Offlinesplifner180
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: creamcorn]
    #5590540 - 05/04/06 03:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Oh. Hey. I learned something here. Thanks creamcorn! I've never had a good grasp of how adding resistance (by way of a pot, like you mention) fits into the equation.

When you say something like "0-35ohms," you mean K, right? As in 35Kohm?

splif


--------------------
First Grow: Ecuador -> LC -> HPoo/Straw -> Monotub
Build a Do-It-Yourself Magnetic Stirrer in thirty minutes with no money.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Ghettofied [Re: splifner180]
    #5590647 - 05/04/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well in trying to way oversimplify the dc resistance of a motor there i think i goofed on some of the numbers.  ill take a look in a bit and will point out an appropriate pot to use.  thats a super simple addition though to the DIY stirrer that costs a buck or two so you can get control over your RPMs.

and yeah, adding resistance means less current can flow.  in this case, because a motor is magnetic, and magnetic flux is determined by current only and not voltage, we can control the motor speed.  with a pot we can use pretty arbitrary choose values actually (as long as we dont go over the power rating) - they'll just determine to what extent we can make those adjustments.  one too small (probably like the one i initially suggested) will only let you turn down the speed part way... one too big means most of the movement of your dial will probably leave the fan off say 3/4ths the way around the dial, with the last little bit of movements giving you rather coarse control... so we want to strike a balance where the dial gives you nice even control from near 0 to max.  and because of ohms law, we know less voltage gives you the same end result, but the motor isn't spinning slower because the voltage is low, its spinning because the lower voltage at the same resistance means less current flow.

same concept too if you look over the LED teks, they wire em with resistors - thats because an LED alone needs a certain voltage threshold to turn on, has near infinite resistance when off but has near zero resistance once on - so without adding an amount of resistance, the moment it turns on it will allow as much current as possible through (heading towards the infinite as close as your real-world system can supply)... resulting in a very bright flash and one dead ass LED. :smile:


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