|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill
#5587970 - 05/03/06 09:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Diploid posted this in the news forum but I thought we might discuss it better here. I don't see how the US can go around bullying other countries like this! 
http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/03/mexico.drugs.ap/
Mexico's Fox balks at signing drug law
Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill
Thursday, May 4, 2006 Posted: 0134 GMT (0934 HKT)
MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexican President Vicente Fox refused to sign a drug decriminalization bill Wednesday, hours after U.S. officials warned the plan could encourage "drug tourism."
Fox sent the measure back to Congress for changes, but his office did not mention the U.S. criticism.
"Without underestimating the progress made on the issue, and with sensitivity toward the opinions expressed by various sectors of society, the administration has decided to suggest changes," according to a statement from his office.
Fox said he will ask "Congress to make the needed corrections to make it absolutely clear in our country, the possession of drugs and their consumption are, and will continue to be, a criminal offense."
On Tuesday, Fox's spokesman had called the bill "an advance" and pledged the president would sign it.
But the measure, passed Friday by Congress, drew a storm of criticism because it eliminates criminal penalties for possession of small amounts of heroin, methamphetamines and PCP, as well as marijuana and cocaine.
Weighing in, the U.S. government Wednesday expressed a rare public objection to an internal Mexican political development, saying anyone caught with illegal drugs in Mexico should be prosecuted or given mandatory drug treatment.
"U.S. officials ... urged Mexican representatives to review the legislation urgently, to avoid the perception that drug use would be tolerated in Mexico, and to prevent drug tourism," U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Judith Bryan said.
There are concerns the measure could increase drug use by border visitors and U.S. students who flock to Mexico on vacation.
Bryan said the U.S. government wants Mexico "to ensure that all persons found in possession of any quantity of illegal drugs be prosecuted or be sent into mandatory drug treatment programs."
The legislature has adjourned for the summer, and when it comes back, it will have an entirely new lower house and one-third new Senate members following the July 2 elections, which will also make the outgoing Fox a lame duck.
However, Sen. Jorge Zermeno, of Fox's conservative National Action Party -- a supporter of the bill -- said he thought Congress would be open to changing the legislation to delete a clause that extends to all "consumers" the exemption from prosecution that was originally meant to cover only recognized drug addicts.
"The word 'consumer' can be eliminated so that the only exemption clause would be for drug addicts," Zermeno told The Associated Press. "There's still time to get this through."
The bill contained many points that experts said were positive: it empowered state and local police -- not just federal officers -- to go after drug dealers, stiffened some penalties and closed loopholes that dealers had long used to escape prosecution.
But the broad decriminalization clause was what soured many -- both in Mexico and abroad -- to the proposal.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5587998 - 05/03/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Too bad. I will have to find another vacation spot.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5588039 - 05/03/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
What "bullying" are you talking about?
The US pointed out that signing the bill into law as written would encourage people to visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs. There have been no US threats to cut off aid, no threats to boycott Mexican goods or kick them out of NAFTA or even to deport Mexicans in the US illegally back to Mexico. All they did was say, "Hey, are you really sure you've thought this through all the way?"
Now, we can argue whether having a bunch of people visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs is a good thing for Mexico or a bad thing. For all we know, the Mexican government may decide the benefits of such an influx outweigh the drawbacks.
But to call the US statement "bullying" is simply not accurate.
Phred
--------------------
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5588091 - 05/03/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
LOL You don't think they "thought" about it when they sent it through congress and put it to a vote? They knew exactly what they were doing. So did the US when they said, "anyone caught with illegal drugs in Mexico should be prosecuted or given mandatory drug treatment." Obviously telling the Mexican government how to run their country. And yes, of course Mexico would face consequences if they defied the all mighty US. Don't play dumb.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5588096 - 05/03/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
God will remember this. keep the faith.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
EmpTyCLosEtSpAcE
yatahey


Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 99
Last seen: 16 years, 10 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5588895 - 05/04/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said: What "bullying" are you talking about?
The US pointed out that signing the bill into law as written would encourage people to visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs. There have been no US threats to cut off aid, no threats to boycott Mexican goods or kick them out of NAFTA or even to deport Mexicans in the US illegally back to Mexico. All they did was say, "Hey, are you really sure you've thought this through all the way?"
Now, we can argue whether having a bunch of people visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs is a good thing for Mexico or a bad thing. For all we know, the Mexican government may decide the benefits of such an influx outweigh the drawbacks.
But to call the US statement "bullying" is simply not accurate.
Phred
C'mon phred, don't be naive. You really think that there wouldn't have been any repurcussions had fox signed that bill as is? US govt. has it's paws in EVERYTHING. I'm curious though. I wonder what tender was offered for him to shoot this down and if it was indeed offered by the us, or by cartels. Remember, less dangerous a drug is to possess, the less you can sell it for (generally).
-------------------- I can't imagine what the cops are going to think when they come in and see a couple hippies on some guy covered in puke and shit screaming i'm dying as we tell him it's ok he'll like it.-Chinacat72
|
kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EmpTyCLosEtSpAcE]
#5589110 - 05/04/06 05:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
lol.. come on man!
we just happened to suggest something, and now they're like "gosh, you guys were right, we're so lucky you're our neighbor!"
no, congress passed something that reflected public interest. we didnt like it, we told them we didnt like it, they changed it. Let me know when we start changing our laws depending on Mexican opinion.. lol
is the global government here so soon? that was quicker than i realized.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: kotik]
#5589240 - 05/04/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Didnt Canada have the same option?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589270 - 05/04/06 08:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
The US's statements do not meet the definition of "bullying". That's all I said. And the fact is, the statements as reported DO NOT meet the definition of bullying.
Words have meaning -- that's why there are so many of them.
Phred
--------------------
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5589336 - 05/04/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
"the act of intimidating a weaker person to make them do something "
LOL you must not understand politics very well. Because thats EXACTLY what was done here. I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589382 - 05/04/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
The Mexican President made his own decision, he bears the responsibility. Even if he was "bullied", for him to buckle, makes him weak!
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5589411 - 05/04/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589453 - 05/04/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Would you explain to the audience what is "intimidating" about correctly pointing out that passing the legislation as originally written would increase the number of people entering Mexico solely in order to do drugs?
As it turns out, Fox returned the legislation to Congress for modifications. Did he do so on his own or because he had thought through what the US representative had pointed out and decided they might be right? Fox didn't say, so I can't know his motive. Neither can you.
Quote:
I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.
In my more than thirty years of political discussion, it has always been the case -- without exception -- that when someone says they're not going to explain something it's because they can't explain it.
The US statement doesn't come anywhere close to qualifying as "bullying" or "intimidating" or "threatening". You can pretend it does if it makes you feel better. You can even pretend the reason I don't see things your way is that I know nothing about politics. That is of course your right. What is not your right is the "right" to redefine commonly used words.
Phred
--------------------
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5589542 - 05/04/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Equilibrum stated: They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong
You need to check your facts!
Mexico is not a third world country.
http://www.answers.com/topic/economy-of-mexico
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5589571 - 05/04/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Sure according to that article they wern't bullying. But it's pretty obvious something else is going on.
"Mexican President Vicente Fox refused to sign a drug decriminalization bill Wednesday, hours after U.S. officials warned the plan could encourage "drug tourism."
And you think the Mexican government didn't know that themselves and had to hear it from the USA....common, if anything that was one of the reasons the decriminalization looked good to them (MORE MONEY)
There was some kind of political pressure, not a spur of the moment OMG drug tourism!! how could that not have came to my mind, I will change my stance completely now because this drug tourism idea was never braught up during the months of creating the bill.... use your head
--------------------
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5589574 - 05/04/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Equilibrum stated: They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong
You need to check your facts!
Mexico is not a third world country.
http://www.answers.com/topic/economy-of-mexico
Because "Wikipedia" it the best source of "facts" right? 
http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
leery11
I Tell You What!

Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589592 - 05/04/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I believe I have heard that more of America's children are subject to poverty than Canada OR Mexico......
22% vs 6% vs something less than 6% according to this Princeton professor named Cornel something......
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5589595 - 05/04/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said: Would you explain to the audience what is "intimidating" about correctly pointing out that passing the legislation as originally written would increase the number of people entering Mexico solely in order to do drugs?
As it turns out, Fox returned the legislation to Congress for modifications. Did he do so on his own or because he had thought through what the US representative had pointed out and decided they might be right? Fox didn't say, so I can't know his motive. Neither can you.
Quote:
I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.
In my more than thirty years of political discussion, it has always been the case -- without exception -- that when someone says they're not going to explain something it's because they can't explain it.
The US statement doesn't come anywhere close to qualifying as "bullying" or "intimidating" or "threatening". You can pretend it does if it makes you feel better. You can even pretend the reason I don't see things your way is that I know nothing about politics. That is of course your right. What is not your right is the "right" to redefine commonly used words.
Phred
Fox and the Congress of Mexico are all too stupid to realize that drug legalization will bring drug tourism
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5589772 - 05/04/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
New York Times
Mexico City -- After intense pressure from the United States, President Vicente Fox has asked Congress to reconsider a law it passed last week that would decriminalize the possession of small amounts of drugs as part of a larger effort to crack down on street-level dealing.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Sporetacus]
#5589830 - 05/04/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Phred you arent reading inbetween the lines. What that release doesnt say; is what the US would do if Fox had signed it into law. I bet the US made it fuckin clear that there would be reprecussions for any dissent. Your a naive man if you dont understand this happened.
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: leery11]
#5589837 - 05/04/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
leery11 said: I believe I have heard that more of America's children are subject to poverty than Canada OR Mexico......
22% vs 6% vs something less than 6% according to this Princeton professor named Cornel something......
Have you ever been to Mexico? Because that is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe. Can you come up with a source we can look at?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5589883 - 05/04/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blaze2 said: Phred you arent reading inbetween the lines.
He never reads between the lines unless it serves his purposes. For some reason he doesn't seem to understand the political tactic known as "plausible deniability."
Edit: Maybe "plausible deniability" isn't the right word. The point is that politicians don't say what they mean up-front, because then they can't deny having made such statements in the future. Instead they'll use ambiguous terms to get their point across and still have an exit strategy when they get called on it.
--------------------
Edited by Silversoul (05/04/06 12:31 PM)
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589887 - 05/04/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
The "third world" was a term coined in the 1950s
http://www.uwec.edu/geography/Ivogeler/w111/3world.htm
The Mexico today, does not resemble the Mexico of the 50s.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5589905 - 05/04/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Sigh.
Although the article doesn't report any statements or acts that could be even remotely construed as "bullying" or "intimidation" you guys just know there MUST have been some (because this is the government of the evil stoopid genius Chimpy McBushitler, after all), we just don't know about them.
When you've got facts rather than speculations, bring them to the table and we'll look at them. Speculations are worth squat. I could speculate that half the people in this thread are child molesters. Does that mean half of you are?
It is reported that Fox had some reservations of the legislation as worded and sent it back to Congress for changes. From the article, it seems that at least some members of Mexico's government believe some of the suggested changes would improve the bill -- specifically substituting "addicts" for "consumers". It is not unheard of for legislation to be reworked a few times before it is ultimately passed. Even with the substitution of "addicts" for "consumers" the bill would still be way more permissive than the US government would like to see.
Phred
--------------------
|
Schwip
Never sleeps.


Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589918 - 05/04/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Thats too bad......
This could have greatly effected Mexico's tourism economy..... I'm sure it would have increased 10 fold if this went through......
-------------------- -------------------------------- " If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. " .............. "MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Schwip]
#5589965 - 05/04/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Phred you really are a naive man arent you? Hows the world look at face value these days? Are we getting along alright?
Do you honestly believe that America releases all of its foriegn meetings transcripts to the press? Do you think the ones they do are whole? Of course not. Read the post that MAIA just put up about the propaganda on Iran. Tell me that America didnt conviently neglect to release large portions of Iran's president speech that, among other things, show the US support for the non democratic former regime of Iran.
And they conviently mistranslated things, to make Iran look bad.
Are you naive as to believe that they would no use the same tactics in reverse to boost their own apperance?
Its not supposition when you have a pattern of behavior to go on man. Thats modern day politics. 50 years ago the president would have called a press conference and publicly condemned the mexican bill, today the moves are made in secrecy. transparent Government my ass.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
Last seen: 4 years, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590177 - 05/04/06 01:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I disagree with going directly at Phred here, only the concept he brings to the debate. That being said, I see this as intimidation, because "giving advice" that in effect changes law within 24 hours defeats the entire concepts of sovereignty.
Basically, the advice of other nations changed the laws congress put forth. Maybe it's not bullying, or intimidation, but of COURSE if we have something to say they will listen, because Mexico, although not a third world country, depends on us (and it's not just our jobs, dummies... lol).
If anything, Fox needs some better PR people. Whenever Bush or Blair change laws at the request of another country, they do it with finesse, and a little "oiling" of the gears...
The whole reason everyone freaked out ("drug tourism") is the same reason it was a pretty good idea. Obviously, Mexico has a problem. Obviously, continuing on the same path is not going to bear fruit. Everyone is acting like it was a law. Politics is a scientific process, which requires experimentation. If nothing else, this would have been a very important experiment for the entire world, regardless of it's outcome, which is 100% speculative in every way.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: kotik]
#5590415 - 05/04/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Why isn't the character of Fox being targeted? He is the one who made the ultimate decision. Do you think that Canada got the same "bullying" from the USA when they were changing their laws on drug policy?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590423 - 05/04/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Yes canada was threatened with sanctions on Canadian exports to the US which is well over half of their whole economy GDP. So yea Id say teh US played it EXACTLY the same.
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590440 - 05/04/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Why isn't the character of Fox being targeted? He is the one who made the ultimate decision. Do you think that Canada got the same "bullying" from the USA when they were changing their laws on drug policy?
You bet.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
RedAlgae
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 10
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5590480 - 05/04/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
So what your saying is that the Mexicans and Canadians can't find any smart people to run their countries and they have to be told what to do by American politicians?
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: RedAlgae]
#5590491 - 05/04/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but didn't Canada change its drug policy?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
SeaShrooms
The dude


Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1,989
Loc: Hitchhiking
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
|
|
This whole thing makes me sick, underneath it all its over money, money for people who catch drug dealers, money for drug dealers, money for the reporters who talk about it, and money for politicians who read speeches they didn't write about issues they probably dint even care about. Don't you love our peaceful caring world.
~rant over~
Oh and ya phred the us bullied Mexico into changing the bill, thats obvious, there's plenty of FACT for me and everyone else on this forum
-------------------- The life of a condemned soul is hatred.
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: RedAlgae]
#5590504 - 05/04/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
RedAlgae said: So what your saying is that the Mexicans and Canadians can't find any smart people to run their countries and they have to be told what to do by American politicians?
No, I'm saying that the U.S. is flexing it's considerable political muscle and interfering with other countries policies through intimidation.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590511 - 05/04/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but didn't Canada change its drug policy?
Nope...there was much talk about decriminalizing weed. But as it stands, weed is still very much illegal. (although the penalites are fairly mild)
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5590535 - 05/04/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590542 - 05/04/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
You mean there is another kind of Mexican?
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590571 - 05/04/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
It seems to me that decriminalization in Mexico would help keep a number of Mexicans on their side of the border.
--------------------
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590573 - 05/04/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
SirTripAlot said: It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
Or the US said, that if they passed it they might pass tough penalties for Illegals. Dont kid yourself America plays Hardball. Its a free world only if you obey American policy. America set down the ultimatum on this like we do on all foriegn policy these days. Our way or the Highway.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590589 - 05/04/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
The only thing that would have satisfied you guys is if the US had said nothing at all. Anything negative they say -- ANYTHING -- nor matter how mildly phrased, you instantly pounce on, howling that it is "bullying" and "intimidation". Voicing an opinion on something does not equal "intimidation", no matter how often or how loudly you guys claim it does.
Long time readers of this forum are well aware that I personally favor complete legalization of ALL drugs in ALL countries. For what it's worth, I personally think Mexico's proposed legislation doesn't go far enough. But the fact that I favor legalization doesn't mean I am incapable of recognizing that the US comments come nowhere close to bullying or intimidation.
Phred
--------------------
|
SeaShrooms
The dude


Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1,989
Loc: Hitchhiking
Last seen: 3 years, 10 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590590 - 05/04/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Ok now that truely is speculation, I to am confident the U.S. has something dirty up their sleeves, they always do, but if they can't stop illegals now why do you think they could if mexico made drugs legal.
-------------------- The life of a condemned soul is hatred.
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5590622 - 05/04/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said: The only thing that would have satisfied you guys is if the US had said nothing at all. Anything negative they say -- ANYTHING -- nor matter how mildly phrased, you instantly pounce on, howling that it is "bullying" and "intimidation". Voicing an opinion on something does not equal "intimidation", no matter how often or how loudly you guys claim it does.
Long time readers of this forum are well aware that I personally favor complete legalization of ALL drugs in ALL countries. For what it's worth, I personally think Mexico's proposed legislation doesn't go far enough. But the fact that I favor legalization doesn't mean I am incapable of recognizing that the US comments come nowhere close to bullying or intimidation.
Phred
Your right the only thing that would have satisfied me is if America had kept its nose out of other countries buisness. They have no right to exert ANY influence on a seperate soveriegn state. This is why the world hates America.
Any time America voices its "opinion" as you so gingerly put it, its not just a an opinion its a warning. Do as we say or there will be repercussions. That is bullying.
If the school yard bully says give him your lunch money you do it or else you get beat, especially when one is the equivalent of a senior and the other a freshman. He might not say I'll kick your ass if you dont, but teh message is there man.
Its ridiculous to see it any other way.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590648 - 05/04/06 04:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
blaze2 said
Quote:
Your right the only thing that would have satisfied me is if America had kept its nose out of other countries buisness. They have no right to exert ANY influence on a seperate soveriegn state. This is why the world hates America.
Bullshit. The US government has an obligation to it's citizens to do what it thinks is best for them. From your absurd position, you clearly think we should completely shut the borders and end all trade with other nations. This is not going to happen. The world is, after all, flat.
--------------------
|
Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5590856 - 05/04/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
speculation, yes. obviously.
but do you really think US officials only politely warned decriminalizing drugs "encourage drug tourism" in a friendly phone call? That's it? And suddenly Fox changes his mind..? What would you speculate was stated in closed-communication between the two parties and not released to the press? I am willing to bet DEA and White House officials listed off a set reprecussions for Mexico if the bill passed...and Fox, the politician, did not want that heat.
Do you really think the communication between US and Mexican officials was benign and without any political threats? Come on...you seem to have alot of faith in politicians to accurately report their doings to the press and not engage in the game of political threats. Let's speculate.
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Vvellum]
#5591308 - 05/04/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
And suddenly Fox changes his mind..?
"Suddenly" changes his mind? How do you know this? Had he announced he was going to sign the bill as drafted? If so, I must have missed that announcement.
As the article stated, others in the Mexican government favor changing the wording, too. Did it ever occur to any of you that it was perhaps their persuasion which led him to send the bill back for changes? Leaders do sometimes act to gain political support within their own governments, you know.
Further, none of us have any way of knowing whether he hadn't already made up his mind to ask for modifications before anyone in the the US government or in Mexico's government had said word one.
Besides, Fox is no dummy. He must know that Mexico enacting such a law would piss off the US whether any US government representative said so or didn't say so. And of course the US government knows he knows this. You guys are nattering on about reading between the lines when it's obvious that in a case like this there need not ever be any lines uttered to read between.
Phred
--------------------
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591334 - 05/04/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
And suddenly Fox changes his mind..?
"Suddenly" changes his mind? How do you know this? Had he announced he was going to sign the bill as drafted?
Yes, he had.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5591359 - 05/04/06 07:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Yes, he had.
See, I didn't know that. You of course can provide us a credible source proving he had stated he would sign the bill as written, it will just take you a while to find it, right?
Phred
--------------------
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591378 - 05/04/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
urggg... now your gonna make me look?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591388 - 05/04/06 07:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



Registered: 01/29/03 
Posts: 8,670
Loc: Canoodia
Last seen: 14 years, 1 month
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591404 - 05/04/06 07:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said:
Quote:
And suddenly Fox changes his mind..?
"Suddenly" changes his mind? How do you know this? Phred
"Mexican President Vicente Fox refused to sign a drug decriminalization bill Wednesday, hours after U.S. officials warned the plan could encourage "drug tourism."
Seems sudden to me.
--------------------
"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5591426 - 05/04/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5591431 - 05/04/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Rono, wtf? You can do better than that.
If it is so widely known he had said he would sign it, surely someone can find a news article from AP or Reuters or whoever quoting his words (translated into English, of course). If Fox made a statement he would sign the bill as written, it's on the net. That's a guarantee. I haven't been able to find such a statement from him, but then again I'm not the one who believes he ever stated such a thing. Equilibrium is the guy who says he did.
Phred
--------------------
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591441 - 05/04/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
You asked for a link...I gave you a bunch of 'em that stated "Mexico's Fox to Sign Bill Legalizing Drugs"
I'm only one man...
here's another one... http://www.freemarketnews.com/WorldNews.asp?nid=12305
i'm sure you can find more...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5591442 - 05/04/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Sorry, but I carefully read that through twice and missed the part quoting Fox that he intended to sign the bill as written. Perhaps you could cut and paste the whole article, and bold the quote from Fox. That would be helpful.
Phred
--------------------
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5591455 - 05/04/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I din't ask for a bunch of links. I asked for a quote from Fox stating he'd sign the bill as written. If you can't provide one, don't feel bad... no one else can either.
Phred
--------------------
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591461 - 05/04/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Man, you just don't give up do you? It says that he will sign the bill! "How its written" is clearly implied! You want everyone to spell everything out for you or what?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5591466 - 05/04/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I think you're alone in your thinking on this one my friend...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5591475 - 05/04/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I read a whole hell of a lot of things in news articles that later turn out to be bullshit. That's why I want to see a quote from Fox saying he would sign the bill as written.
Did it ever occur to you the reason you can't find such a statement from Fox is because he didn't make such a statement?
Phred
--------------------
|
Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5591533 - 05/04/06 08:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I think you're alone in your thinking on this one my friend...
Probably because I'm the only one who is thinking. The rest of y'all are just making assumptions.
Assumption 1 -- Fox won't sign because the US "bullied" or "intimidated" him into not signing.
Assumption 2 -- He would have signed the bill as written had the US said nothing
Assumption 3 -- He cares more about what the US says than what concerned members of the Mexican government say
Assumption 4 -- He won't sign it no matter how the wording is changed, because the US doesn't want him to
None of you have even READ the details of this bill at all, have you? It's a bullshit bill from the standpoint of easing drug penalties in Mexico. The courts ALREADY have the power to dismiss cases brought before them involving such miniscule quantities of drugs. And it makes things WORSE -- much worse -- for small drug dealers and even for users caught with anything over the laughably tiny amounts the law considers "personal" amounts.
Have you read the amounts they're talking about? One fortieth of a gram of heroin. One quarter gram of cocaine. Two standard Ecstasy pills. A quarter dose of LSD. A tenth of a dose of fresh mushrooms. It's a freaking JOKE!
All it was intended to do was to relieve the court system of having to process junkies up to the point where they get turned loose by the judge anyway by allowing cops to turn them loose at the scene. In every other respect, it makes things harsher. If I were a Mexican doper, I'd fight to have the bill discarded and continue to take my chances with the old system.
Phred
--------------------
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5591809 - 05/04/06 09:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: blaze2 said
Quote:
Your right the only thing that would have satisfied me is if America had kept its nose out of other countries buisness. They have no right to exert ANY influence on a seperate soveriegn state. This is why the world hates America.
Bullshit. The US government has an obligation to it's citizens to do what it thinks is best for them. From your absurd position, you clearly think we should completely shut the borders and end all trade with other nations. This is not going to happen. The world is, after all, flat.
Of course there is an obligation to its citizens that said that cannot and should not infringe on teh rights of a seperate soveriegn nation. If this is truly a free and democratic world that the US keeps using to justify all of its bullshit foriegn policies lately, then any state has a right to vote for personal rights, WITHOUT FEAR OF REPRECUSSION.
The resposibility does not lie in teh government to protect our kids from crossing teh border to get drugs, it belongs on the parents to not let their Kids go to mexico if they dont want their kids doing drugs. Thats a parents right, a state has no right to tell a Free grown man what he can, and cant put in his body.
I cant think of a single justification you or anyone else can have that would not make hippocrites out of the US. Unless you think its allright to be a hipporcrite? Well?
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5591849 - 05/04/06 09:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Have you read the amounts they're talking about? One fortieth of a gram of heroin. One quarter gram of cocaine. Two standard Ecstasy pills. A quarter dose of LSD. A tenth of a dose of fresh mushrooms. It's a freaking JOKE!
Umm i dont know anything about heroin, but .25g of some badass columbian uncut cocaine would be enough for me after a night of drinking, just enough to wake me up to fuck the mexican bitch, that I rolled with earlier that night and If im not mistaken it was was .0250 not .0025 of LSD thats 2.5 hits if a hit is 100 micrograms a peice right? Correct me if I'm wrong guys It might just be a texan thing, but to me that sounds like a good fuckin night.
peace blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5591894 - 05/04/06 09:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I see Phreds point, and some others contrary to his, isn't fun to be so far removed from government affairs, that we all grasp at straws????
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5592547 - 05/05/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Probably because I'm the only one who is thinking. The rest of y'all are just making assumptions.
An assumption that the most powerful anti-drug country in the world might be able to lean on it's neighbour? What kind of fantasy world are you living in? Do you expect Bush to come out and say "We will bully and intimidate you if you choose this path"?
Have you read the amounts they're talking about? One fortieth of a gram of heroin. One quarter gram of cocaine. Two standard Ecstasy pills. A quarter dose of LSD. A tenth of a dose of fresh mushrooms. It's a freaking JOKE!
PLEASE try and THINK! The point of this is not the amounts being considered. It's floating the idea of decriminalisation. You don't float the idea of this in the face of intense US pressure by saying "You can carry a kilo of H around with you". You do it by starting small so bullying american politicians can't say "Drug dealers could carry that much, you are legalising devil drug dealers".
|
bukkake


Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 2,764
Loc: Classified
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Alex213]
#5595934 - 05/05/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Assumption 1 -- Fox won't sign because the US "bullied" or "intimidated" him into not signing.
Assumption 2 -- He would have signed the bill as written had the US said nothing
Assumption 3 -- He cares more about what the US says than what concerned members of the Mexican government say
Assumption 4 -- He won't sign it no matter how the wording is changed, because the US doesn't want him to
Pretty much.
And you doubt them all?
|
i8an8th
Mrs.


Registered: 06/16/05
Posts: 1,714
Loc:
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: bukkake]
#5595966 - 05/05/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Assume = Ass U Me - When you assume it makes an ass out of you and me!
--------------------
|
Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5596064 - 05/05/06 10:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I want to see a quote from Fox saying he would sign the bill as written.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MEXICO_DRUGS?SITE=LAMON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Fourth paragraph down:
On Tuesday, Fox's spokesman had called the bill "an advance" and pledged the president would sign it.
Not Fox himself, but his spokesman. If that doesn't satisfy you, I don't know what will.
The guy was gonna sign. The US called him up. The guy changed his mind. Connect the dots.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Diploid]
#5596110 - 05/05/06 10:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I sure hope Phread is not/ never becomes a detective
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5596576 - 05/06/06 12:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I sure ain't gonna hire him.
|
SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 1 hour, 58 minutes
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Alex213]
#5597808 - 05/06/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Like I said earlier.........Fox made the decision, you dont like it blame HIM for bowing down
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5598086 - 05/06/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
While I find it hard to believe that the US didn't put pressure on Fox behind-the-scenes, the fault lies with Mexico for this failure. Heaven forbid a country stand up for its sovereignty for once and say "no" to the US. With all these countries bending over before the US, it's no wonder they are being taken advantage of.
|
EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Redstorm]
#5598324 - 05/06/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Redstorm said: While I find it hard to believe that the US didn't put pressure on Fox behind-the-scenes, the fault lies with Mexico for this failure. Heaven forbid a country stand up for its sovereignty for once and say "no" to the US. With all these countries bending over before the US, it's no wonder they are being taken advantage of.
Iraq, Iran, North Korea
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5599081 - 05/06/06 09:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: While I find it hard to believe that the US didn't put pressure on Fox behind-the-scenes, the fault lies with Mexico for this failure. Heaven forbid a country stand up for its sovereignty for once and say "no" to the US. With all these countries bending over before the US, it's no wonder they are being taken advantage of.
Iraq, Iran, North Korea
Yup thats a BURN.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5600609 - 05/07/06 10:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
|
Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Diploid]
#5600636 - 05/07/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Diploid said: I want to see a quote from Fox saying he would sign the bill as written.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MEXICO_DRUGS?SITE=LAMON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
Fourth paragraph down:
On Tuesday, Fox's spokesman had called the bill "an advance" and pledged the president would sign it.
Not Fox himself, but his spokesman. If that doesn't satisfy you, I don't know what will.
The guy was gonna sign. The US called him up. The guy changed his mind. Connect the dots.

|
Diploid
Cuban


Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5600646 - 05/07/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Like I said earlier.........Fox made the decision, you dont like it blame HIM for bowing down
A decision made under duress doesn't count.
Had the US kept it's nose out of Mexico's business, Fox's decision would have been different. His office even said so.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Diploid]
#5600709 - 05/07/06 10:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Diploid said: Like I said earlier.........Fox made the decision, you dont like it blame HIM for bowing down
A decision made under duress doesn't count.
Had the US kept it's nose out of Mexico's business, Fox's decision would have been different. His office even said so.
What do you consider duress? Mexico's business is our business. Eveybody's business is our business. Just like we have to pay a certain amount of attention to other nation's concerns about what we do. Or suffer the consequences. So what? This is like sandbox 101. We are not alone in the world.
Duress...If you don't do what I want I will punch you in the nose and take your beanie babies Persuasion...If you don't do what I want I won't play with you anymore.
--------------------
|
blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5600767 - 05/07/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
would you punish your family and friends for lifestyle differences if you could? I wouldnt. The US would. Just because the US has a stake in the world doesnt mean we have the right to impose our will man. Especially on an un-agressive nation. You guys need to face teh facts, The US is a bully. This is a fact proven time and time again.
The commandment is,
"Love thy Neighbor"
Not "Control thy Neighbor."
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
|
Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5600768 - 05/07/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Just quit pushing your tyranical anti-drug bullshit on other countries and everything will be fine. Simple.
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 11 days
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5601172 - 05/07/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
Quote:
Redstorm said: While I find it hard to believe that the US didn't put pressure on Fox behind-the-scenes, the fault lies with Mexico for this failure. Heaven forbid a country stand up for its sovereignty for once and say "no" to the US. With all these countries bending over before the US, it's no wonder they are being taken advantage of.
Iraq, Iran, North Korea
Good for them. If more countries had any balls, the list would be much longer.
Blaze: How was that a burn? He provided several countries who stood up for their sovereignty. I don't get where there was an insult there.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Alex213]
#5601229 - 05/07/06 02:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alex213 said: Just quit pushing your tyranical anti-drug bullshit on other countries and everything will be fine. Simple.
MY tyrannical anti-drug bullshit? I don't think so. Right or wrong, it is the people of the USA, by an overwhelming majority, who approve of drug prohibition. The government would be remiss if it didn't represent the views of the people in dealing with an immediate neighbor's seeming change of policy. Tell me again what the drug policy is in Limey land? Would they say nothing if Ireland decided to legalize drug use? Spare me the hypocritical bullshit.
--------------------
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5601268 - 05/07/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
blaze2 said: would you punish your family and friends for lifestyle differences if you could?
Of course. For instance, if one of my friends was spiralling out of control I would not lend him money to continue his spiral. You probably would. They call that person an "enabler." You supply that person with an out that allows them to avoid accepting responsibility for their own behaviour. You are not helping.
Quote:
I wouldnt. The US would. Just because the US has a stake in the world doesnt mean we have the right to impose our will man.
Impose????? We are not capable of that. We sure can use our influence. And should and will. Tough shit for all self-hating Americans. They are an insignificant minority who can basicly go suck their thumbs in a corner. We don't care.
Quote:
Especially on an un-agressive nation. You guys need to face teh facts, The US is a bully. This is a fact proven time and time again.
Actually, the US is quite restrained in the face of provocationQuote:
The commandment is,
"Love thy Neighbor"
Not "Control thy Neighbor."
There is no such commandment and I am not a christian so I don't give a shit. "Good fences make good neighbors." (This is often misconstrued to imply separation when the original intent was to emphasive the cooperative nature of fence building.)
--------------------
|
Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5603908 - 05/08/06 03:05 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
it is the people of the USA, by an overwhelming majority, who approve of drug prohibition
Source?
The government would be remiss if it didn't represent the views of the people in dealing with an immediate neighbor's seeming change of policy.
The people of the US have complained about Mexico decriminalising drugs for personal use? Where have they done this?
Would they say nothing if Ireland decided to legalize drug use?
I'd move there.
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Alex213]
#5605353 - 05/08/06 03:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Alex213 said: it is the people of the USA, by an overwhelming majority, who approve of drug prohibition
Source?
http://www.pollingreport.com/drugs.htm That was easyQuote:
The government would be remiss if it didn't represent the views of the people in dealing with an immediate neighbor's seeming change of policy.
The people of the US have complained about Mexico decriminalising drugs for personal use? Where have they done this?
Our legally elected representatives view this as important in helping to enforce the will of the people on drug prohibition, which is their job. We are not a nation run by referendum.Quote:
Would they say nothing if Ireland decided to legalize drug use?
I'd move there.
Answering the question in your usual fashion. Which is not at all.
--------------------
|
Alex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: zappaisgod]
#5605417 - 05/08/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
That was easy
That's a poll of a thousand people. From 2002. Your claim was "it is the people of the USA, by an overwhelming majority, who approve of drug prohibition"
Try again.
Our legally elected representatives view this as important in helping to enforce the will of the people on drug prohibition
What are you talking about? Enforcing the will of the people of the US on the people of Mexico?
Answering the question in your usual fashion. Which is not at all.
As humourless as ever I see.
Many people in the UK would be happy to see drugs decriminalised. Even the Strathclyde POLICE force recently said all drugs should be legalised including heroin and cocaine.
|
ke1n
Stranger


Registered: 11/15/05
Posts: 359
Last seen: 14 years, 6 months
|
Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
#5675356 - 05/26/06 12:18 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Phred said: The US's statements do not meet the definition of "bullying". That's all I said. And the fact is, the statements as reported DO NOT meet the definition of bullying.
Words have meaning -- that's why there are so many of them.
Phred
yeah public words, 99% of the words are behind the scenes. MExico knows very well that if it doesn't act in the US's favor they will get some sort of consequences. There doesn't have to be threats out in the open to not know that.
Their 'good relations' might deteriorate if MExico doesnt 'work with' the United States to 'fight terrorism'.
Yeah because drug terrorism is all over Amsterdam.
Can't u smell the bullshit?
--------------------
Everything that is posted, including pictures and text, are a result of fictional storytelling using images found online and/or created using the latest graphics software. I am a fictional writer who likes to explore the internet world. ------------------------------------ http://www.adobe.com/
|
|