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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: leery11]
#5589837 - 05/04/06 12:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
leery11 said: I believe I have heard that more of America's children are subject to poverty than Canada OR Mexico......
22% vs 6% vs something less than 6% according to this Princeton professor named Cornel something......
Have you ever been to Mexico? Because that is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe. Can you come up with a source we can look at?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5589883 - 05/04/06 12:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
blaze2 said: Phred you arent reading inbetween the lines.
He never reads between the lines unless it serves his purposes. For some reason he doesn't seem to understand the political tactic known as "plausible deniability."
Edit: Maybe "plausible deniability" isn't the right word. The point is that politicians don't say what they mean up-front, because then they can't deny having made such statements in the future. Instead they'll use ambiguous terms to get their point across and still have an exit strategy when they get called on it.
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Edited by Silversoul (05/04/06 12:31 PM)
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589887 - 05/04/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The "third world" was a term coined in the 1950s
http://www.uwec.edu/geography/Ivogeler/w111/3world.htm
The Mexico today, does not resemble the Mexico of the 50s.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5589905 - 05/04/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Sigh.
Although the article doesn't report any statements or acts that could be even remotely construed as "bullying" or "intimidation" you guys just know there MUST have been some (because this is the government of the evil stoopid genius Chimpy McBushitler, after all), we just don't know about them.
When you've got facts rather than speculations, bring them to the table and we'll look at them. Speculations are worth squat. I could speculate that half the people in this thread are child molesters. Does that mean half of you are?
It is reported that Fox had some reservations of the legislation as worded and sent it back to Congress for changes. From the article, it seems that at least some members of Mexico's government believe some of the suggested changes would improve the bill -- specifically substituting "addicts" for "consumers". It is not unheard of for legislation to be reworked a few times before it is ultimately passed. Even with the substitution of "addicts" for "consumers" the bill would still be way more permissive than the US government would like to see.
Phred
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Schwip
Never sleeps.


Registered: 06/27/05
Posts: 3,937
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5589918 - 05/04/06 12:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Thats too bad......
This could have greatly effected Mexico's tourism economy..... I'm sure it would have increased 10 fold if this went through......
-------------------- -------------------------------- " If the sky were to suddenly open up there would be no law. There would be no rule. There would only be you and your memories... the choices you've made, and the people you've touched. If this world were to end there would only be you and him and no-one else. " .............. "MAN! You know there aint no such thing as left over crack!"
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Schwip]
#5589965 - 05/04/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Phred you really are a naive man arent you? Hows the world look at face value these days? Are we getting along alright?
Do you honestly believe that America releases all of its foriegn meetings transcripts to the press? Do you think the ones they do are whole? Of course not. Read the post that MAIA just put up about the propaganda on Iran. Tell me that America didnt conviently neglect to release large portions of Iran's president speech that, among other things, show the US support for the non democratic former regime of Iran.
And they conviently mistranslated things, to make Iran look bad.
Are you naive as to believe that they would no use the same tactics in reverse to boost their own apperance?
Its not supposition when you have a pattern of behavior to go on man. Thats modern day politics. 50 years ago the president would have called a press conference and publicly condemned the mexican bill, today the moves are made in secrecy. transparent Government my ass.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590177 - 05/04/06 01:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I disagree with going directly at Phred here, only the concept he brings to the debate. That being said, I see this as intimidation, because "giving advice" that in effect changes law within 24 hours defeats the entire concepts of sovereignty.
Basically, the advice of other nations changed the laws congress put forth. Maybe it's not bullying, or intimidation, but of COURSE if we have something to say they will listen, because Mexico, although not a third world country, depends on us (and it's not just our jobs, dummies... lol).
If anything, Fox needs some better PR people. Whenever Bush or Blair change laws at the request of another country, they do it with finesse, and a little "oiling" of the gears...
The whole reason everyone freaked out ("drug tourism") is the same reason it was a pretty good idea. Obviously, Mexico has a problem. Obviously, continuing on the same path is not going to bear fruit. Everyone is acting like it was a law. Politics is a scientific process, which requires experimentation. If nothing else, this would have been a very important experiment for the entire world, regardless of it's outcome, which is 100% speculative in every way.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: kotik]
#5590415 - 05/04/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why isn't the character of Fox being targeted? He is the one who made the ultimate decision. Do you think that Canada got the same "bullying" from the USA when they were changing their laws on drug policy?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590423 - 05/04/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yes canada was threatened with sanctions on Canadian exports to the US which is well over half of their whole economy GDP. So yea Id say teh US played it EXACTLY the same.
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590440 - 05/04/06 03:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Why isn't the character of Fox being targeted? He is the one who made the ultimate decision. Do you think that Canada got the same "bullying" from the USA when they were changing their laws on drug policy?
You bet.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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RedAlgae
Stranger
Registered: 05/04/06
Posts: 10
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5590480 - 05/04/06 03:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So what your saying is that the Mexicans and Canadians can't find any smart people to run their countries and they have to be told what to do by American politicians?
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: RedAlgae]
#5590491 - 05/04/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but didn't Canada change its drug policy?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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SeaShrooms
The dude


Registered: 09/13/05
Posts: 1,989
Loc: Hitchhiking
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This whole thing makes me sick, underneath it all its over money, money for people who catch drug dealers, money for drug dealers, money for the reporters who talk about it, and money for politicians who read speeches they didn't write about issues they probably dint even care about. Don't you love our peaceful caring world.
~rant over~
Oh and ya phred the us bullied Mexico into changing the bill, thats obvious, there's plenty of FACT for me and everyone else on this forum
-------------------- The life of a condemned soul is hatred.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: RedAlgae]
#5590504 - 05/04/06 03:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RedAlgae said: So what your saying is that the Mexicans and Canadians can't find any smart people to run their countries and they have to be told what to do by American politicians?
No, I'm saying that the U.S. is flexing it's considerable political muscle and interfering with other countries policies through intimidation.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590511 - 05/04/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: Excuse me if I sound ignorant, but didn't Canada change its drug policy?
Nope...there was much talk about decriminalizing weed. But as it stands, weed is still very much illegal. (although the penalites are fairly mild)
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,459
Loc: Harmless (Mostly)
Last seen: 22 minutes, 38 seconds
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Rono]
#5590535 - 05/04/06 03:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590542 - 05/04/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You mean there is another kind of Mexican?
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590571 - 05/04/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
It seems to me that decriminalization in Mexico would help keep a number of Mexicans on their side of the border.
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5590573 - 05/04/06 03:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
SirTripAlot said: It would seem like Fox made that move for a variety of reasons......what about the immigration debate?
Who would want drug using Mexicans to come over here?
Or the US said, that if they passed it they might pass tough penalties for Illegals. Dont kid yourself America plays Hardball. Its a free world only if you obey American policy. America set down the ultimatum on this like we do on all foriegn policy these days. Our way or the Highway.
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: blaze2]
#5590589 - 05/04/06 04:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The only thing that would have satisfied you guys is if the US had said nothing at all. Anything negative they say -- ANYTHING -- nor matter how mildly phrased, you instantly pounce on, howling that it is "bullying" and "intimidation". Voicing an opinion on something does not equal "intimidation", no matter how often or how loudly you guys claim it does.
Long time readers of this forum are well aware that I personally favor complete legalization of ALL drugs in ALL countries. For what it's worth, I personally think Mexico's proposed legislation doesn't go far enough. But the fact that I favor legalization doesn't mean I am incapable of recognizing that the US comments come nowhere close to bullying or intimidation.
Phred
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