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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill
    #5587970 - 05/03/06 09:47 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Diploid posted this in the news forum but I thought we might discuss it better here. I don't see how the US can go around bullying other countries like this!  :rolleyes:

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/americas/05/03/mexico.drugs.ap/

Mexico's Fox balks at signing drug law

Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill

Thursday, May 4, 2006 Posted: 0134 GMT (0934 HKT)

MEXICO CITY, Mexico (AP) -- Mexican President Vicente Fox refused to sign a drug decriminalization bill Wednesday, hours after U.S. officials warned the plan could encourage "drug tourism."

Fox sent the measure back to Congress for changes, but his office did not mention the U.S. criticism.

"Without underestimating the progress made on the issue, and with sensitivity toward the opinions expressed by various sectors of society, the administration has decided to suggest changes," according to a statement from his office.

Fox said he will ask "Congress to make the needed corrections to make it absolutely clear in our country, the possession of drugs and their consumption are, and will continue to be, a criminal offense."

On Tuesday, Fox's spokesman had called the bill "an advance" and pledged the president would sign it.

But the measure, passed Friday by Congress, drew a storm of criticism because it eliminates criminal penalties for possession of small amounts of heroin, methamphetamines and PCP, as well as marijuana and cocaine.

Weighing in, the U.S. government Wednesday expressed a rare public objection to an internal Mexican political development, saying anyone caught with illegal drugs in Mexico should be prosecuted or given mandatory drug treatment.

"U.S. officials ... urged Mexican representatives to review the legislation urgently, to avoid the perception that drug use would be tolerated in Mexico, and to prevent drug tourism," U.S. Embassy spokeswoman Judith Bryan said.

There are concerns the measure could increase drug use by border visitors and U.S. students who flock to Mexico on vacation.

Bryan said the U.S. government wants Mexico "to ensure that all persons found in possession of any quantity of illegal drugs be prosecuted or be sent into mandatory drug treatment programs."

The legislature has adjourned for the summer, and when it comes back, it will have an entirely new lower house and one-third new Senate members following the July 2 elections, which will also make the outgoing Fox a lame duck.

However, Sen. Jorge Zermeno, of Fox's conservative National Action Party -- a supporter of the bill -- said he thought Congress would be open to changing the legislation to delete a clause that extends to all "consumers" the exemption from prosecution that was originally meant to cover only recognized drug addicts.

"The word 'consumer' can be eliminated so that the only exemption clause would be for drug addicts," Zermeno told The Associated Press. "There's still time to get this through."

The bill contained many points that experts said were positive: it empowered state and local police -- not just federal officers -- to go after drug dealers, stiffened some penalties and closed loopholes that dealers had long used to escape prosecution.

But the broad decriminalization clause was what soured many -- both in Mexico and abroad -- to the proposal.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5587998 - 05/03/06 09:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Too bad. I will have to find another vacation spot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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OfflinePhred
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5588039 - 05/03/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What "bullying" are you talking about?

The US pointed out that signing the bill into law as written would encourage people to visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs. There have been no US threats to cut off aid, no threats to boycott Mexican goods or kick them out of NAFTA or even to deport Mexicans in the US illegally back to Mexico. All they did was say, "Hey, are you really sure you've thought this through all the way?"

Now, we can argue whether having a bunch of people visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs is a good thing for Mexico or a bad thing. For all we know, the Mexican government may decide the benefits of such an influx outweigh the drawbacks.

But to call the US statement "bullying" is simply not accurate.





Phred


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5588091 - 05/03/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

LOL You don't think they "thought" about it when they sent it through congress and put it to a vote? They knew exactly what they were doing. So did the US when they said, "anyone caught with illegal drugs in Mexico should be prosecuted or given mandatory drug treatment." Obviously telling the Mexican government how to run their country. And yes, of course Mexico would face consequences if they defied the all mighty US. Don't play dumb.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5588096 - 05/03/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

God will remember this. keep the faith.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineEmpTyCLosEtSpAcE
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5588895 - 05/04/06 02:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
What "bullying" are you talking about?

The US pointed out that signing the bill into law as written would encourage people to visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs. There have been no US threats to cut off aid, no threats to boycott Mexican goods or kick them out of NAFTA or even to deport Mexicans in the US illegally back to Mexico. All they did was say, "Hey, are you really sure you've thought this through all the way?"

Now, we can argue whether having a bunch of people visit Mexico solely for the purpose of doing drugs is a good thing for Mexico or a bad thing. For all we know, the Mexican government may decide the benefits of such an influx outweigh the drawbacks.

But to call the US statement "bullying" is simply not accurate.





Phred




C'mon phred, don't be naive. :tongue: You really think that there wouldn't have been any repurcussions had fox signed that bill as is? US govt. has it's paws in EVERYTHING. I'm curious though. I wonder what tender was offered for him to shoot this down and if it was indeed offered by the us, or by cartels. Remember, less dangerous a drug is to possess, the less you can sell it for (generally).


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I can't imagine what the cops are going to think when they come in and see a couple hippies on some guy covered in puke and shit screaming i'm dying as we tell him it's ok he'll like it.-Chinacat72


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EmpTyCLosEtSpAcE]
    #5589110 - 05/04/06 05:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

lol.. come on man!

we just happened to suggest something, and now they're like "gosh, you guys were right, we're so lucky you're our neighbor!"

no, congress passed something that reflected public interest.  we didnt like it, we told them we didnt like it, they changed it.  Let me know when we start changing our laws depending on Mexican opinion.. lol

is the global government here so soon?  that was quicker than i realized.  :grin:


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: kotik]
    #5589240 - 05/04/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Didnt Canada have the same option?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
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Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5589270 - 05/04/06 08:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The US's statements do not meet the definition of "bullying". That's all I said. And the fact is, the statements as reported DO NOT meet the definition of bullying.

Words have meaning -- that's why there are so many of them.




Phred


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5589336 - 05/04/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"the act of intimidating a weaker person to make them do something "

LOL you must not understand politics very well. Because thats EXACTLY what was done here. I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5589382 - 05/04/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The Mexican President made his own decision, he bears the responsibility. Even if he was "bullied", for him to buckle, makes him weak!


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5589411 - 05/04/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong  :rolleyes:


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OfflinePhred
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5589453 - 05/04/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Would you explain to the audience what is "intimidating" about correctly pointing out that passing the legislation as originally written would increase the number of people entering Mexico solely in order to do drugs?

As it turns out, Fox returned the legislation to Congress for modifications. Did he do so on his own or because he had thought through what the US representative had pointed out and decided they might be right? Fox didn't say, so I can't know his motive. Neither can you.

Quote:

I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.




In my more than thirty years of political discussion, it has always been the case -- without exception -- that when someone says they're not going to explain something it's because they can't explain it.

The US statement doesn't come anywhere close to qualifying as "bullying" or "intimidating" or "threatening". You can pretend it does if it makes you feel better. You can even pretend the reason I don't see things your way is that I know nothing about politics. That is of course your right. What is not your right is the "right" to redefine commonly used words.




Phred


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5589542 - 05/04/06 10:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Equilibrum stated:
They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong


You need to check your facts!

Mexico is not a third world country.

http://www.answers.com/topic/economy-of-mexico


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5589571 - 05/04/06 10:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sure according to that article they wern't bullying. But it's pretty obvious something else is going on.

"Mexican President Vicente Fox refused to sign a drug decriminalization bill Wednesday, hours after U.S. officials warned the plan could encourage "drug tourism."

And you think the Mexican government didn't know that themselves and had to hear it from the USA....common, if anything that was one of the reasons the decriminalization looked good to them (MORE MONEY)

There was some kind of political pressure, not a spur of the moment OMG drug tourism!! how could that not have came to my mind, I will change my stance completely now because this drug tourism idea was never braught up during the months of creating the bill.... use your head


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5589574 - 05/04/06 10:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Equilibrum stated:
They are weak. Thats obvious. We don't call them a third world country because they are strong


You need to check your facts!

Mexico is not a third world country.

http://www.answers.com/topic/economy-of-mexico




Because "Wikipedia" it the best source of "facts" right?  :grin:




http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world_countries.htm


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5589592 - 05/04/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I believe I have heard that more of America's children are subject to poverty than Canada OR Mexico......

22% vs 6% vs something less than 6% according to this Princeton professor named Cornel something......


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5589595 - 05/04/06 11:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Would you explain to the audience what is "intimidating" about correctly pointing out that passing the legislation as originally written would increase the number of people entering Mexico solely in order to do drugs?

As it turns out, Fox returned the legislation to Congress for modifications. Did he do so on his own or because he had thought through what the US representative had pointed out and decided they might be right? Fox didn't say, so I can't know his motive. Neither can you.

Quote:

I'm not going to explain it to you because I think you can see it yourself just fine and for some reason you choose not to acknowledge it.




In my more than thirty years of political discussion, it has always been the case -- without exception -- that when someone says they're not going to explain something it's because they can't explain it.

The US statement doesn't come anywhere close to qualifying as "bullying" or "intimidating" or "threatening". You can pretend it does if it makes you feel better. You can even pretend the reason I don't see things your way is that I know nothing about politics. That is of course your right. What is not your right is the "right" to redefine commonly used words.




Phred




Fox and the Congress of Mexico are all too stupid to realize that drug legalization will bring drug tourism  :rolleyes:


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OfflineSporetacus
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Phred]
    #5589772 - 05/04/06 11:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

New York Times

Mexico City -- After intense pressure from the United States, President Vicente Fox has asked Congress to reconsider a law it passed last week that would decriminalize the possession of small amounts of drugs as part of a larger effort to crack down on street-level dealing.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Under U.S. pressure, president backs off decriminalization bill [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5589830 - 05/04/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Phred you arent reading inbetween the lines. What that release doesnt say; is what the US would do if Fox had signed it into law. I bet the US made it fuckin clear that there would be reprecussions for any dissent. Your a naive man if you dont understand this happened.

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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