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InvisibleIcelander
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Can you?
    #5587708 - 05/03/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I don't know what enlightenment is exactly. But I have a question for you all. Do you think you can achieve enlightenment without believing in any concept of God. Reasons please.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5587867 - 05/03/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

yes, absolutely. no beliefs are required to realize you're nature.


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587895 - 05/03/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes.

Beliefs are for people who don't want to become enlightened..... they are tools for pointing you in the right direction, but the more you BELIEVE the less you KNOW.....

I would wager enlightenment involves shredding away that which is believed and replacing it with that which is known and experienced directly.

If your goal is enlightenment and you put that goal into action I do not see why what you believe matters... you may use yoga, matrial arts, meditation, selfless service to the community, fasting, chanting, prayer, Christianity, Buddhism, Islam..... but in the end once you're enlightened belief doesn't matter......

The Buddha said his teachings were a raft which were to be abandoned once you got to the other shore.

plus Buddhists don't believe in God.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (05/03/06 09:25 PM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5587906 - 05/03/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No. God is philosophically the Absolute Reality, the Absolute Truth. Enlightenment (to me, at least) is to awaken to the metaphysical infrastructure of all Reality, to experience the connectedness of All, the Divine commonground. Believing (Faith) is the prerequisite to Inner Knowing. I know there's alot of absolutism around here about subjectivity and objectivity, but at the end of the day outside the radiating Light of God, there is only ignorance (not knowledge), the Wheel of Life, the Re-Cycling of unliberated essence.

Of course, this is just what I think. :smirk:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5587916 - 05/03/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ah well if you define things that way then you are right.

:smile:

God is enlightenment...... then? If so, then yes. But God is just three letters on a screen. Unless it means something to you....... to some people it's just simply Tao or it its entirely irrelevant "" but enligthenment.... is enlightenment..... and I don't see a conflict really.

so perhaps the only criteria is that they believe there IS an enlightenment and a more interesting question would be "Can you be enlightened if you don't believe in enlightenment?"


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


Edited by leery11 (05/03/06 09:33 PM)


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5587917 - 05/03/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
No. God is philosophically the Absolute Reality, the Absolute Truth. Enlightenment (to me, at least) is to awaken to the metaphysical infrastructure of all Reality, to experience the connectedness of All, the Divine commonground. I know there's alot of absolutism around here about subjectivity and objectivity, but at the end of the day outside the radiating Light of God, there is only ignorance (not knowledge), the Wheel of Life, the Re-Cycling of unliberated essence.

Of course, this is just what I think. :smirk:




yes but you needn't have beliefs prior to realizing that, correct?


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Offlinerecalcitrant
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5587925 - 05/03/06 09:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Is what we believe part of enlightenment? IF God is supposed to be the sum of reality, and outside that ultimate enlightenment there is nothing, then what we believe is a small part of enlightenment, right?

Why do you think that beliefs are less enlightened than knowing experience? Our beliefs in science have given us a huge advantage against the other animals that know much, but believe nothing.


--------------------

We have to answer our own prayers


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5587931 - 05/03/06 09:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm a proud Atheist, both soft and hard, depending on how I want to look at it. I can call myself a hard Athiest through the use of the fundamental axioms, or simply a soft Atheist by virtue of illuminating the arbitrariness of such pertinent concepts. If enlightenment is to be described as a state of being whereby more mature developments of rational cognition [thinking] has been sustained, and therefore more mature, rational ethics have followed, then the fact that I'm an Atheist has not conflicted with such intrapersonal growth.

Blindly believing in such fundamental, metaphysical contradictions would only hinder my cognitive maturity and self-efficacy. Atheism has not been inimical to such developments - quite the contrary, in fact. But then again, acceptance of reality and acting in accordance with it, has always been a cornerstone of enlightened behavior.

However, the absence of any belief in a "god" of any sort, has not been the engine of my 'enlightenment' - more like an oil, if anything. In other words, can one attain greater maturity in their cognition and ethics without such frivolous beliefs? Absolutely. But one cannot if they have no coherent, well-defined and non-contradictory philosophy, that is consistent with reality and their interests.






--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5587935 - 05/03/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
No. God is philosophically the Absolute Reality, the Absolute Truth. Enlightenment (to me, at least) is to awaken to the metaphysical infrastructure of all Reality, to experience the connectedness of All, the Divine commonground. Believing (Faith) is the prerequisite to Inner Knowing. I know there's alot of absolutism around here about subjectivity and objectivity, but at the end of the day outside the radiating Light of God, there is only ignorance (not knowledge), the Wheel of Life, the Re-Cycling of unliberated essence.

Of course, this is just what I think. :smirk:




How do you compare your concept of God and lets say, the concept of Tao which doesn't recognize Deity.

Or lets say, do you have to believe in a supreme being that is a conscious entity?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587938 - 05/03/06 09:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I slightly edited my post before you quoted me :smirk:

Belief in God, literally blind faith, believing without seeing, in my opinion is the first step to actually knowing God. Faith eventually matures into Inner Knowledge.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587939 - 05/03/06 09:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)


The Buddha said his teachings were a raft which were to be abandoned once you got to the other shore.

plus Buddhists don't believe in God.


thats not true, many buddhists DO believe in GOD. the buddha did not incorporate God into his teachings because he did not want people to become tangled in philosophical questions reguarding God such as "why does God allow this" or ''can God microwave a burrito so hot that even he cannot eat it". instead he simply pointed people back to their nature as pure spirit. when giving teachings to people who believed in God he taught from the standpoint of God existing and when asked by his deciples if God existed, he was silent. however, his teachings is clearly theistic in nature, sharing all the same basic components as the other theistic religions only using different terms.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5587951 - 05/03/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I actually know very little about Taoism so I cant really comment :laugh:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineleery11
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587953 - 05/03/06 09:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

interesting.

I read a suttra where he explained that the concept of a creator God is false.... that people find themselves in the Brahma world and in being alone wish that they had company. At some point this wishing comes true which leads them to feel that they are in fact a creator God.....

and the other beings fall out of the Brahma realm into lesser realms thinking that the initial one there created them.

It was a bit confusing.... but he pretty much said belief in a creator is a false view.


--------------------
I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo!

....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human......
Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Can you? [Re: leery11]
    #5587966 - 05/03/06 09:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

leery11 said:
interesting.

I read a suttra where he explained that the concept of a creator God is false.... that people find themselves in the Brahma world and in being alone wish that they had company. At some point this wishing comes true which leads them to feel that they are in fact a creator God.....

and the other beings fall out of the Brahma realm into lesser realms thinking that the initial one there created them.

It was a bit confusing.... but he pretty much said belief in a creator is a false view.




could you link to me this? id be curious to read it. is it possible he meant a creator God who created the world as apart from himself was a false view? i believe some buddhists not even believe the world was ''created'', its simply an apperance in the single non dual reality.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5587976 - 05/03/06 09:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
I actually know very little about Taoism so I cant really comment :laugh:




You might like to take the time to aquaint yourself with it. My personal philosophy is much in alignment with it. It is very simple and ultimately profound IMO.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: leery11]
    #5587991 - 05/03/06 09:53 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

What I call "God" is merely an expression applied to a personal experience. The Logos is called many things in many languages.. and God (which has philosophical entailments and absolutes) expresses this experience quite well I think. :wink:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5588012 - 05/03/06 09:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe to you but to many the concept of God is a very human one. Many christians were brought up with a picture of an old white bearded human (much like a king) on a golden $$$$ throne. And when you say the word God that is exactly what pops up in their mind because they are programmed to it. It's very much like the ruler king in the political realm when you think about it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSkorpivoMusterion
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5588016 - 05/03/06 10:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
You might like to take the time to aquaint yourself with it. My personal philosophy is much in alignment with it. It is very simple and ultimately profound IMO.





"Those who follow Tao declare that there is no evidence that a god created our world. They have not found any empirical proof, and they cannot accept the idea philosophically."
-excerpt from "365 Tao"

Coincidentally, the premises I hold in regards to such metaphysics, is also in alignment with Taoist philosophy - which is the Objectivist position as elucidated by Branden here:
http://evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com/branden.htm





--------------------
Coffee should be black as hell, strong as death, and sweet as love.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5588052 - 05/03/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The bearded ruler in the clouds in Christian thought is an exterior, exoteric idealization of God as I see it, and it remains on the outer edges of the Christian faith, far away from its Living Pearl.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: SkorpivoMusterion]
    #5588067 - 05/03/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Thanks. I will read this when I'm more awake.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5588139 - 05/03/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:

The Buddha said his teachings were a raft which were to be abandoned once you got to the other shore.

plus Buddhists don't believe in God.


thats not true, many buddhists DO believe in GOD. the buddha did not incorporate God into his teachings because he did not want people to become tangled in philosophical questions reguarding God such as "why does God allow this" or ''can God microwave a burrito so hot that even he cannot eat it". instead he simply pointed people back to their nature as pure spirit. when giving teachings to people who believed in God he taught from the standpoint of God existing and when asked by his deciples if God existed, he was silent. however, his teachings is clearly theistic in nature, sharing all the same basic components as the other theistic religions only using different terms.




This is how I always understood Buddhist thought - that the Buddha simply taught the absence of the world, which ultimately allows for illumination of the Divine, intrinsic Truth.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinejohnstanton
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5588199 - 05/03/06 10:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

DOES IT MATTER!!!

ONCE ENLIGHTENED THERE IS NO GOD! no segregation at all!!
THIS IS A GUARENTEE! and not one drop of atheism;antagonism;sacasm or anarchy or any other bullshit envolved with that statement...oNCE ENLIGHTENED --THERE IS NO GIVING A FUCK..and no way to explain it.....


--------------------
homoeopathic practitiner..

"seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: johnstanton]
    #5588231 - 05/03/06 10:55 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

To know this one would have to be enlightened. Are you saying you are enlightened and thus know exactly what enlightenment is? If so how would you demonstrate it? Or are we just to take your fucking word for it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Can you? [Re: johnstanton]
    #5588246 - 05/03/06 10:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:zoolander:


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlinejohnstanton
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5588316 - 05/03/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

jst take my fucking word for it or not...what would it matter any way --if took it or not...see?enlightenment is an overrated wording to signify something other than what is experienced --thus division ---never will the enlightened know whether they are or not=nor would seek any other than is had... the kingdom of heaven is at hand-----repent

to repent =turn away from tha wthich signifies division to the observor....


--------------------
homoeopathic practitiner..

"seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"


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Offlinejohnstanton
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5588322 - 05/03/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

AND NOW ONE ASKS ----HOW!!!!!!


--------------------
homoeopathic practitiner..

"seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"


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Offlinestefan
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5588836 - 05/04/06 01:34 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

sure you can :thumbup:

I think enlightenment is kinda subjective and so for some people it might have something to do with religion and for other people it could be something completely different


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5589272 - 05/04/06 08:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know what enlightenment is exactly. But I have a question for you all. Do you think you can achieve enlightenment without believing in any concept of God. Reasons please.




Enlightenment is not different from you. You are enlightened. Nirvana and Samsara are One. A difficultly for many people (including myself) is seeing Enlightenment/Nirvana as some point which arrives down the road, at some point other than this very present Moment. Thus we desire with all our hearts to reach this point. Yet it is this very desire which very often holds us back from realizing our true Buddha nature.

As to a belief in God; many have some form of personal God (symbolic for Ishvara). Whether or not this is a hindrance to realizing Reality is a good question, and I can't answer it. However, I find it very helpful to believe in Nothing. That is, That which has neither form nor color, yet easily 'takes on' form and color, so to speak. Tao, if you'd like.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: johnstanton]
    #5589282 - 05/04/06 08:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

johnstanton said:
AND NOW ONE ASKS ----HOW!!!!!!




Why would I ask you? You don't answer questions and you can't spell or speak. You think if you YELL and say fuck someone will be impressed with you when you have nothing to say. You're not in OTD where any slow learner can look cool.  :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: dblaney]
    #5589290 - 05/04/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know what enlightenment is exactly. But I have a question for you all. Do you think you can achieve enlightenment without believing in any concept of God. Reasons please.




Enlightenment is not different from you. You are enlightened. Nirvana and Samsara are One. A difficultly for many people (including myself) is seeing Enlightenment/Nirvana as some point which arrives down the road, at some point other than this very present Moment. Thus we desire with all our hearts to reach this point. Yet it is this very desire which very often holds us back from realizing our true Buddha nature.

As to a belief in God; many have some form of personal God (symbolic for Ishvara). Whether or not this is a hindrance to realizing Reality is a good question, and I can't answer it. However, I find it very helpful to believe in Nothing. That is, That which has neither form nor color, yet easily 'takes on' form and color, so to speak. Tao, if you'd like.




I'm enlightened? Fuckin A! :thumbup: :thumbup:

I don't believe in nothing because that would be something and I don't believe in anything. :grin: Or something like that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinejertik
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
    #5589295 - 05/04/06 08:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

From nothing to something. We are demigods created in the image of the All, given the power to create Anything we desire. The more faith we have in our own power the quicker the response time.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Can you? [Re: jertik]
    #5589303 - 05/04/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

While I do believe we are creators of a sort, to say we (any of us) can create anything seems unlikely. So can you please supply some evidence for your extreme statement?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Can you? [Re: Basilides]
    #5589324 - 05/04/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Belief in God, literally blind faith, believing without seeing, in my opinion is the first step to actually knowing God. Faith eventually matures into Inner Knowledge.




I am sure that words can wrap this up in different ways, but to me, faith is a kind of mental posture or pose.
as with any posture or pose, you need to be able to go into it and come out of it with ease, and it should be helpful/heathful towards other postures and poses that you need to adopt for your lifestyle.

the maturity would be that your practice and your life blend nicely, maybe seamlessly, but that is a matter of health and lifestyle.

IMO, enlightenment relates to being the guest that is welcome everywhere.

That may have everything to do with having a faith or openeness of posture that is transformative and healthful, and with having a posture that shifts suitably with what is happenning.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5589338 - 05/04/06 08:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Here's a short passage from a superb book, hopefully this will clarify things.

Quote:


I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary,to believe in nothing. That is, we have to believe in something which has no form and no color - something which exists before form and color appear. This is a very important point. No matter what god or doctrine you believe in, if you become attached to it, your belief will be based more or less on a self centred idea. You strive for a perfect faith in order to save yourself. But it will take time to attain such a perfect faith. You will be involved in an idealized practise. In constantly seeking to actualize your ideal, you will have no time for composure. But if you are always prepared for accepting everything we see as something appearing from nothing, knowing that there is some reason why a phenomenal existence of such and such form and color appears, then in that moment you will have perfect composure.
...
So it is absolutely necessary for everyone to believe in nothing. But I do not mean voidness. There is something, but that something is something which is always prepared for taking some particular form, and it has some rules, or theory, or truth in its activity. This is called Buddha nature, or Buddha himself. When this existence is personified we call it Buddha; when we understand it as the ultimate truth we call it Dharma; and when we accept the truth and act as a part of the Buddha, or according to the theory, we call ourselves Sangha. But even though there are three Buddha forms, it is one existence which has no form or color, and it is always ready to take form and color. This is not just theory. This is not just the teaching of Buddhism. This is the absolutely necessary understanding of our life. Without this understanding our religion will not help us. We will be bound by our religion, and we will have more trouble because of it. If you become the victim of Buddhism, I may be very happy, but you will not be so happy. So this kind of understanding is very, very important.
...
Using the Buddhist terminology, we should begin with enlightenment and proceed to practice, and then to thinking. Usually thinking is rather self-centered. In ou everyday life our thinking is ninety-nine percent self-centered: "Why do I have suffering? Why do I have trouble?" This kind of thinking is ninety-nine percent of ou thinking. For example, when we start to study science or read a difficult sutra, we very soon become sleepy or drowsy. But we are always wide awake and very much interested in our self-centered thinking! But if enlightenment comes first, before thinking, before practice, your thinking and your practice will not be self-centered. By enlightenment I mean believing in nothing, believing in something which has no form or no color, which is ready to take form or color. This enlightenment is the immutable truth. It is on this original truth that our activity, our thinking, and our practice should be based.





- From Zen Mind, Beginner Mind by Suzuki


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Can you? [Re: dblaney]
    #5589354 - 05/04/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary,to believe in nothing.  :grin: :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5589441 - 05/04/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"believing in nothing" is a pretty universal pose that is both healthful and self adjusting,
but to be a welcome guest with this can take a fair bit of expertise.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Can you? [Re: redgreenvines]
    #5589447 - 05/04/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I believe you. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinedr0mni
My Own Messiah
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Can you? [Re: Icelander]
    #5589487 - 05/04/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No concept of God will have any significance upon the actual realization of IT.

Buddha was infact strictly agnostic and made no decree regarding the nature of God, only to life, suffering, and enlightenment, etc.


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Offlinedr0mni
My Own Messiah
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Can you? [Re: dr0mni]
    #5589490 - 05/04/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

oh, and Icelander! How long have you been back?


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Offlinedr0mni
My Own Messiah
 User Gallery

Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
Re: Can you? [Re: dr0mni]
    #5589497 - 05/04/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

OMG! You've made over 100 posts in the past week, JUST in the philosophy forum! LOL!

I knew you wouldn't be able to stay away from here!

:crazy:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Can you? [Re: dr0mni]
    #5589567 - 05/04/06 10:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I am nothing if not a blabbermouth.  :tongue:

So nice to talk to you again. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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