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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
#5588139 - 05/03/06 10:30 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
The Buddha said his teachings were a raft which were to be abandoned once you got to the other shore.
plus Buddhists don't believe in God.
thats not true, many buddhists DO believe in GOD. the buddha did not incorporate God into his teachings because he did not want people to become tangled in philosophical questions reguarding God such as "why does God allow this" or ''can God microwave a burrito so hot that even he cannot eat it". instead he simply pointed people back to their nature as pure spirit. when giving teachings to people who believed in God he taught from the standpoint of God existing and when asked by his deciples if God existed, he was silent. however, his teachings is clearly theistic in nature, sharing all the same basic components as the other theistic religions only using different terms.
This is how I always understood Buddhist thought - that the Buddha simply taught the absence of the world, which ultimately allows for illumination of the Divine, intrinsic Truth.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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johnstanton
homoepath

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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DOES IT MATTER!!!
ONCE ENLIGHTENED THERE IS NO GOD! no segregation at all!! THIS IS A GUARENTEE! and not one drop of atheism;antagonism;sacasm or anarchy or any other bullshit envolved with that statement...oNCE ENLIGHTENED --THERE IS NO GIVING A FUCK..and no way to explain it.....
-------------------- homoeopathic practitiner.. "seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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To know this one would have to be enlightened. Are you saying you are enlightened and thus know exactly what enlightenment is? If so how would you demonstrate it? Or are we just to take your fucking word for it.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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johnstanton
homoepath

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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jst take my fucking word for it or not...what would it matter any way --if took it or not...see?enlightenment is an overrated wording to signify something other than what is experienced --thus division ---never will the enlightened know whether they are or not=nor would seek any other than is had... the kingdom of heaven is at hand-----repent
to repent =turn away from tha wthich signifies division to the observor....
-------------------- homoeopathic practitiner.. "seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"
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johnstanton
homoepath

Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 17
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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AND NOW ONE ASKS ----HOW!!!!!!
-------------------- homoeopathic practitiner.. "seek only the truth ...as an unbiased observor"
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stefan
work in progress

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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sure you can 
I think enlightenment is kinda subjective and so for some people it might have something to do with religion and for other people it could be something completely different
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know what enlightenment is exactly. But I have a question for you all. Do you think you can achieve enlightenment without believing in any concept of God. Reasons please.
Enlightenment is not different from you. You are enlightened. Nirvana and Samsara are One. A difficultly for many people (including myself) is seeing Enlightenment/Nirvana as some point which arrives down the road, at some point other than this very present Moment. Thus we desire with all our hearts to reach this point. Yet it is this very desire which very often holds us back from realizing our true Buddha nature.
As to a belief in God; many have some form of personal God (symbolic for Ishvara). Whether or not this is a hindrance to realizing Reality is a good question, and I can't answer it. However, I find it very helpful to believe in Nothing. That is, That which has neither form nor color, yet easily 'takes on' form and color, so to speak. Tao, if you'd like.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
johnstanton said: AND NOW ONE ASKS ----HOW!!!!!!
Why would I ask you? You don't answer questions and you can't spell or speak. You think if you YELL and say fuck someone will be impressed with you when you have nothing to say. You're not in OTD where any slow learner can look cool.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Can you? [Re: dblaney]
#5589290 - 05/04/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know what enlightenment is exactly. But I have a question for you all. Do you think you can achieve enlightenment without believing in any concept of God. Reasons please.
Enlightenment is not different from you. You are enlightened. Nirvana and Samsara are One. A difficultly for many people (including myself) is seeing Enlightenment/Nirvana as some point which arrives down the road, at some point other than this very present Moment. Thus we desire with all our hearts to reach this point. Yet it is this very desire which very often holds us back from realizing our true Buddha nature.
As to a belief in God; many have some form of personal God (symbolic for Ishvara). Whether or not this is a hindrance to realizing Reality is a good question, and I can't answer it. However, I find it very helpful to believe in Nothing. That is, That which has neither form nor color, yet easily 'takes on' form and color, so to speak. Tao, if you'd like.
I'm enlightened? Fuckin A! 
I don't believe in nothing because that would be something and I don't believe in anything. Or something like that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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jertik
Stranger
Registered: 05/02/06
Posts: 3
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
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Re: Can you? [Re: Deviate]
#5589295 - 05/04/06 08:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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From nothing to something. We are demigods created in the image of the All, given the power to create Anything we desire. The more faith we have in our own power the quicker the response time.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Can you? [Re: jertik]
#5589303 - 05/04/06 08:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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While I do believe we are creators of a sort, to say we (any of us) can create anything seems unlikely. So can you please supply some evidence for your extreme statement?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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Quote:
Basilides said: Belief in God, literally blind faith, believing without seeing, in my opinion is the first step to actually knowing God. Faith eventually matures into Inner Knowledge.
I am sure that words can wrap this up in different ways, but to me, faith is a kind of mental posture or pose. as with any posture or pose, you need to be able to go into it and come out of it with ease, and it should be helpful/heathful towards other postures and poses that you need to adopt for your lifestyle.
the maturity would be that your practice and your life blend nicely, maybe seamlessly, but that is a matter of health and lifestyle.
IMO, enlightenment relates to being the guest that is welcome everywhere.
That may have everything to do with having a faith or openeness of posture that is transformative and healthful, and with having a posture that shifts suitably with what is happenning.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Here's a short passage from a superb book, hopefully this will clarify things.
Quote:
I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary,to believe in nothing. That is, we have to believe in something which has no form and no color - something which exists before form and color appear. This is a very important point. No matter what god or doctrine you believe in, if you become attached to it, your belief will be based more or less on a self centred idea. You strive for a perfect faith in order to save yourself. But it will take time to attain such a perfect faith. You will be involved in an idealized practise. In constantly seeking to actualize your ideal, you will have no time for composure. But if you are always prepared for accepting everything we see as something appearing from nothing, knowing that there is some reason why a phenomenal existence of such and such form and color appears, then in that moment you will have perfect composure. ... So it is absolutely necessary for everyone to believe in nothing. But I do not mean voidness. There is something, but that something is something which is always prepared for taking some particular form, and it has some rules, or theory, or truth in its activity. This is called Buddha nature, or Buddha himself. When this existence is personified we call it Buddha; when we understand it as the ultimate truth we call it Dharma; and when we accept the truth and act as a part of the Buddha, or according to the theory, we call ourselves Sangha. But even though there are three Buddha forms, it is one existence which has no form or color, and it is always ready to take form and color. This is not just theory. This is not just the teaching of Buddhism. This is the absolutely necessary understanding of our life. Without this understanding our religion will not help us. We will be bound by our religion, and we will have more trouble because of it. If you become the victim of Buddhism, I may be very happy, but you will not be so happy. So this kind of understanding is very, very important. ... Using the Buddhist terminology, we should begin with enlightenment and proceed to practice, and then to thinking. Usually thinking is rather self-centered. In ou everyday life our thinking is ninety-nine percent self-centered: "Why do I have suffering? Why do I have trouble?" This kind of thinking is ninety-nine percent of ou thinking. For example, when we start to study science or read a difficult sutra, we very soon become sleepy or drowsy. But we are always wide awake and very much interested in our self-centered thinking! But if enlightenment comes first, before thinking, before practice, your thinking and your practice will not be self-centered. By enlightenment I mean believing in nothing, believing in something which has no form or no color, which is ready to take form or color. This enlightenment is the immutable truth. It is on this original truth that our activity, our thinking, and our practice should be based.
- From Zen Mind, Beginner Mind by Suzuki
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Can you? [Re: dblaney]
#5589354 - 05/04/06 09:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I discovered that it is necessary, absolutely necessary,to believe in nothing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
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"believing in nothing" is a pretty universal pose that is both healthful and self adjusting, but to be a welcome guest with this can take a fair bit of expertise.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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I believe you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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No concept of God will have any significance upon the actual realization of IT.
Buddha was infact strictly agnostic and made no decree regarding the nature of God, only to life, suffering, and enlightenment, etc.
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you? [Re: dr0mni]
#5589490 - 05/04/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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oh, and Icelander! How long have you been back?
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dr0mni
My Own Messiah


Registered: 08/21/04
Posts: 2,921
Loc: USF Tampa, Fl
Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Can you? [Re: dr0mni]
#5589497 - 05/04/06 10:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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OMG! You've made over 100 posts in the past week, JUST in the philosophy forum! LOL!
I knew you wouldn't be able to stay away from here!
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