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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Good?
    #5586634 - 05/03/06 04:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Is it possible to objectively define what is "good," as in the opposite of evil?

It seems to me that, when defining good, we will always be influenced by the subjectivity of our context (American, 21st century, male/female, lower/middle/upper class, religious/agnostic/atheist, family beliefs, etc...), just as we are in defining what we mean by "evil."


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Good? [Re: Veritas]
    #5586636 - 05/03/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That's good. :thumbup: :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Good? [Re: Veritas]
    #5586674 - 05/03/06 04:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Objectively, what is "good" is subjective.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Good? [Re: Veritas]
    #5586697 - 05/03/06 05:04 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yeah, "good" is just as subjective and relative as "bad".


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Good? [Re: dblaney]
    #5586736 - 05/03/06 05:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well ive seen many people here claim that delusion/ignorance is never good. if that is so then it would follow that good could be defined as knowledge or truth. i personally like to think of good as love and truth.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5586750 - 05/03/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Love, devotion and surrender.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Good? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5586774 - 05/03/06 05:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Love of what (or whom)?, devotion to what (or whom)?, surrender to what (or whom)?

The power of subjectivity:

Many stalkers claim that they are deeply in love with the focus of their obsession.

Hitler was devoted to eliminating threats to the genetic superiority of the Aryan race.

Surrendering your power to others results in an unhealthy relationship.

You'll have to be more specific. :grin:


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5586785 - 05/03/06 05:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well ive seen many people here claim that delusion/ignorance is never good.

It's not good to them because they are seeking the goal of knowledge, thus ignorance is very bad. But for someone who has no interest in knowledge, ignorance certainly isn't a bad thing. In and of itself, delusion/ignorance is just delusion/igorance. Good and bad are terms that humans assign to things; they are subjective.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineSporetacus
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Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
Re: Good? [Re: Veritas]
    #5586794 - 05/03/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Breyer's chocolate ice cream with fresh sliced strawberries is 'good'.


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Good? [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5586803 - 05/03/06 05:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No, it is delicious.  Ice cream is amoral.  :wink:


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OfflineDeviate
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Re: Good? [Re: dblaney]
    #5586805 - 05/03/06 05:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
well ive seen many people here claim that delusion/ignorance is never good.

It's not good to them because they are seeking the goal of knowledge, thus ignorance is very bad. But for someone who has no interest in knowledge, ignorance certainly isn't a bad thing. In and of itself, delusion/ignorance is just delusion/igorance. Good and bad are terms that humans assign to things; they are subjective.




ignorance is still bad for someone who isnt seeking knowledge because it could lead to make decisions which were not conductive to something else that they were seeking. but i'm not sure i dissagree with you, id like to see one of the many users here who has claimed delusion is always bad to try to argue this since i dont really understand their position.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5586908 - 05/03/06 05:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
well ive seen many people here claim that delusion/ignorance is never good.




I personally claim that delusion and ignorance are never beneficial to an individual and their successful navigation of reality. "Good" is an extremely relative term that I would not apply in regards to the situation, if at all. :wink:

Quote:


if that is so then it would follow that good could be defined as knowledge or truth.




A definition of what something is not does not necessitate that the opposite of what it is not is the definition of what it is, if you follow me. :smirk:

If one were to state that ignorance is never good, then it does not follow that knowledge is good. :wink:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5586994 - 05/03/06 06:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

ignorance is still bad for someone who isnt seeking knowledge because it could lead to make decisions which were not conductive to something else that they were seeking.

Right, but their seeking is still in search of a goal. When you desire to reach a goal, it is very easy to classify things as "good" or bad" depending on whether or not it will help you achieve that goal. In and of itself however, something is neither "good" nor "bad".


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Good? [Re: dblaney]
    #5587064 - 05/03/06 06:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
Right, but their seeking is still in search of a goal. When you desire to reach a goal, it is very easy to classify things as "good" or bad" depending on whether or not it will help you achieve that goal. In and of itself however, something is neither "good" nor "bad".




"Good" and "bad" are not well-equipped concepts to be utilized in one's relationship with goals and their process. Terms such as "effective" and "obstructive" have more ability to serve the purpose of interpreting an event or aspect of reality in terms of one's goals.

"Good" and "bad" are simple. Vauge. Ineffective in representing value and meaning.

Throw them out the fucking window. ....sorry, Skorp, I can't bring myself to utilize "defenestrate" :lol:.

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Good? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5587158 - 05/03/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

well of course good and bad are entirely subjective in the sense that any particular event can be interpretated as good or bad or neither by any individual.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587177 - 05/03/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
well of course good and bad are entirely subjective in the sense that any particular event can be interpretated as good or bad or neither by any individual.




Which statement of mine is this in response to?

I wasn't discussing good and bad and their subjectiveness, but rather the logic that you used to come to the if/then statement that you did. :wink:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: Good? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5587252 - 05/03/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

no, no, your logic is correct. i was wrong in implying it logically followed, i meant that reply to be to dblaney. i often forget to use to the correct reply function. i should have said that those who believe delusion is never beneficial tend to also believe that truth is always beneficial.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Good? [Re: Deviate]
    #5587274 - 05/03/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Sweet. :thumbup:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Good? [Re: Veritas]
    #5587459 - 05/03/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

To serve and never be tired is love.
To learn and never be filled is devotion.
To offer and never to end is surrender.

Love is man's reality.
Devotion is man's divinity.
Surrender is man's immortality.

Reality is all-pervading.
Divinity is all-elevating.
Immortality is all-fulfilling.

-Sri Chinmoy


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (05/03/06 07:53 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Good? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5587472 - 05/03/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Surrender is man's immortality.


For some reason I like this.^^^^

That used to be one of my favorite works from Santana. Unfortunately I no longer have it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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