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AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
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Maybe I am alone on this...
#5584418 - 05/03/06 02:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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My girlfriend called me crying today because she gave a speech in her public speaking class and received a very low score for a BS reason.
The assignment was to find a current even on the local news and give a speech on it. You can take whatever stance you want and you are graded on presentation. Her story was about a minivan that was pulled over a couple days ago in San Diego (where we live) and it had 56 illegal immigrants in it. Her stance was that we need a more effective way of stopping vehicles at the border for inspection. Anyway, without getting into a debate over the issue, in her speech she called the illegal immigrants "illegals." The instructor was apparently offended by the term and marked my girlfriend down.
On top of that, the instructor then used my girlfriend as an example of racism and how it can affect our writing and speech. One, my girlfriend isnt racist she was merely calling the people what they were. Two, the instructor had no right to call her student racist in the class room.
My arguement in this case is this: if someone rapes someone else we call them a rapist. If someone robs a bank they are a burglar. If someone steals they are a thief. If someone kills someone else they are a murderer. Based on this, if someone crosses the border illegally they are an illegal immigrant, or illegal. What is the problem? Are we supposed to call illegal immigrants something else? Something they they accept as "nice." Do they get that right once they cross over? Also, how is that racist? Maybe I am just a little extreme in my views but I see this as complete and utter bullshit.
To top it off, my girlfriend was asked to stay after class so she could be talked to. During the after class conversation her instructor starts asking her about her personal life. She asked if her boyfriend (me) beat her, if her family life was ok, if she was stressed and a number of other things including if she believes in God. I strongly disagree with any instructor asking a student about a personal religious belief in a professional environment. Am I wrong for being pissed off about this? Was my girlfriend wrong for being attacked? Or, was the instructor abusing her athoritative position?
What do you guys think? Should instructors legally be allowed to segregate a student like this because they differ on an issue.
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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5584934 - 05/03/06 09:20 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's absurd, but it's common-place in the politically correct world. If I were your girlfriend, I would file a complaint at whatever the department that teacher is a part of. His grading of her is inappropriate, but not as much as his prying into her personal life. That is none of his business.
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fresh313
journeyman


Registered: 09/01/03
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: Redstorm]
#5585001 - 05/03/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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teachers = power trip
the only way to teach this lady a lesson is with anarchist tacticks.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: fresh313]
#5585025 - 05/03/06 09:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I would file a complaint
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Icelander
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5585231 - 05/03/06 10:51 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I agree, file a complaint. Assholes need to be challenged so that they can keep that sphincter shut.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585290 - 05/03/06 11:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Yeah, that's total bullshit. I had to drop a class this semester for a similar reason. But really I think it has less to do with "political correctness" and more to do with this orthodox leftist bullshit that some professors seem to buy into. It's kinda like being taught by the Bush administration, same bullshit, just the other side of the spectrum, dig?
I really don't believe there is such a thing as "political correctness", at least not outside the 1990s. But that's for another post.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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leery11
I Tell You What!

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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: quillini]
#5585410 - 05/03/06 11:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the problem with "illegals" is they aren't really doing anything wrong if you ask me.....
if all nations had open borders I think the wealth would be more evenly distributed accross the planet, rather than oh say most of it in the hands of America....
it's like calling us "criminals" we are criminals because we possess drugs......... it's like calling people druggies or potheads or stoners or hippies.....
it's a useless label.... was she wrong in using it? No of course not, the media uses it..... and I think that's pretty insane..... but you know .... the media uses language that pits US against THEM it polarizes and discriminates....... it puts everything into neat black and white terms and facilitates dehumanization through its use of words.
you are conditioned to NOT care if the word "illegals" is used just like you are conditioned to HATE if the word "terrorist" is used so for example if a man is not in this nation legally, and he stands up against the government and they brand him a terrorist .... the media headline will use a combination of "illegal" and "terrorist" and then we won't care about this man's fate at all, even though he was a good man and did nothing wrong, he was given a scarlet letter.
Like say... I don't let's just say he burns an American flag because he's mad about the government covering up things about 9/11...... they can call him "illegal" they can call him "radical anarchist" and they can call him "terrorist" and now HE'S NOT A PERSON ANYMORE!
That's the issue at hand... labels used to discriminate.... and "illegals" is indeed one of those labels... it doesn't mean it's not true. They are illegals.........
it doesn't mean she was being insensitive it doesn't sound like she was at all. I'm on her side with this one .... I'm just saying why it's an issue.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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OJK
Stranger

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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585438 - 05/03/06 11:56 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I have a very liberal stance on the rights of illegal immigrants, and I don't see at all how the term "illegals" could sensibly construed as genuinely offensive.
Then again, I suppose it depends on the context. The term "Paki" is simply an abbreviation of "Pakistani", and is the grammatically correct term for a person from Pakistan, just as a man from Afghanistan is an Afghan, and a man from Kazakhstan is a Kazakh. "Pakistan" means "land of the Pakis", "stan" just means land. However, in Britain, using the term "Paki" to refer to a man from Pakistan is very, very offensive, simply because it's been used as a term of abuse by racist British people for decades.
So I suppose, if the term "Illegal" was used in the persecution of illegal immigrants in a racist manner, it could be construed as racist. If it isn't used in that way in the place that you live, perhaps the teacher is from a place where it is used as a term of abuse?
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Baby_Hitler
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585443 - 05/03/06 11:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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She should start a riot. How can you give a bad grade for public speaking if they start a riot?
That's effective public speaking at it's finest. If your speech starts a riot you should just be given an A+ and you don't have to come to class anymore.
I took a speech class once. I barely passed it, but I can't remember why. Basically, I think that class was the most bullshit class anyone' has ever come up with.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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psilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585616 - 05/03/06 12:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Cough. I think you will find thats life curtailment specialists and non-consensual lovers, thank you.
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


Registered: 04/18/06
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: OJK]
#5585641 - 05/03/06 12:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's like saying "Jap" for Japanese in the US. There's nothing inherently derogatory about the term, as it is just an abbreviation, but here people associate it with WWII internment camps and all the bullshit Japanese Americans had to put up with back then. It's not that you don't have the right to say it; just understand that many people will get pissed if you do. If it is your objective to piss people off, then use the word. If you're trying to make a larger point and have people follow what you're saying, it's best to avoid pissing people off. Other people's feelings shouldn't dictate free speech, but naturally they must be considered if one wishes to communicate.
It seems as though "illegal" is becoming one of those words. But at this point, the issue is bound to be touchy no matter what words you use.
"Racist" is also one of those words. The way I see it, everybody is racist. Everybody notices differences, and everybody judges. It's part of being human. But "racist" has turned into this evil thing to be. If the girl can't say "illegal" then the teacher can't say "racist", and we can walk on eggshells till we rot.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: Redstorm]
#5585719 - 05/03/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Redstorm said: It's absurd, but it's common-place in the politically correct world.
Do you really think so? I'm actually pretty shocked at this.
I think it is bullshit. It is one thing to attack someone for being un-politically correct, it is another thing to punish them by lowering their grade. It is not a crime to be un-PC, we should all have the freedom to be as bigoted as we want to. This instructor is obviously a terrible teacher to handle the situation in this way. The most he should have done would be to politely ask her to replace the term "illegals" with "illegal immigrants," based on whatever reason he saw appropriate, then go on and critique the substance of her speech.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain


Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: quillini]
#5585738 - 05/03/06 01:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Maybe I just see it differently. I dont see anything wrong with calling someone as they are. I call people with a penis men and people with a vagina women. If someone is arrested for a crime they are the accused. If someone smokes a joint they are a criminal, druggie, pothead, ect. If someone kills a baby they are a baby killer. If someone comes over here illegally they are (by our laws) illegal. If someone is from the US they are a US citizen or American. If someone is Japanese they are Japanese. I guess I have a hard time seeing the arguement. The speculation that this word may or may not become offensive in time is irrelevant just as the arguement that "if our borders were open" is irrelevant because they arent completely open. I can see where both arguements come from and that although we may not believe them, they are still there. But the fact of the matter is, a debate was not started in class to determine if the word was misused in a generally offensive way. Plus, the context of it was exactely how the news portrayed it. Because of the nature of the assignment I think it would have done more damage to the speech if she had not used the word. I think the instructor was out of line, and I think my girlfriend is a pushover for not doing anything about it but crying and bitching to me.
Its sad really that this "freedom of speech" right we hold so dearly is so easily disrupted in our everyday lives.
--------------------
There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585850 - 05/03/06 01:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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1. It is perfectly acceptable to call illegal immigrants "illegals". Not only is that a common term but it is an accurate representation of a blatantly simple fact, i.e. they are in the country illegally.
2. To single her out as being a racist in front of the whole class is just disgusting.
3. To make all kinds of insinuations (does your boyfriend beat you...?) just because she used a particular term is completely ridiculous.
I would have been absolutely offended at what that instructor did. If I were your girlfriend I would report her immediately to the school administration. She needs to teach this politically correct bitch a lesson.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: quillini]
#5585856 - 05/03/06 01:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
quillini said: But really I think it has less to do with "political correctness" and more to do with this orthodox leftist bullshit that some professors seem to buy into.
I consider those two things to be the same thing.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585873 - 05/03/06 01:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
AaronEvil said: Its sad really that this "freedom of speech" right we hold so dearly is so easily disrupted in our everyday lives.
Most universities are infested with Leftism. It comes with the territory. That's one of the reasons why I left college.
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


Registered: 04/18/06
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: AaronEvil]
#5585876 - 05/03/06 01:34 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, what happened was bullshit, but no one's right to freedom of speech was abridged. Obviously this girl misjudged her audience and got an undesirable reaction. Being able to read your audience is a key part of public speaking. I don't know what all was said, but I assume her objective was to make a point regarding this issue. She was either trying to make a logical appeal to support her opinion, or she was trying to be a polemic. Either objective is valid, and the speaker's job is to read the audience and deliver their speech in such a way as to accomplish whatever objective they have chosen.
Now, again, I'm assuming that her objective was to make a logical appeal. This is where what we call "political correctness" comes into play. Obviously if you're trying to have an impact on the way your audience is thinking, offending your audience isn't the most prudent thing to do. All of us share the opinion that this particular audience was too easily offended. Perhaps a different audience would have reacted differently, I don't know. But this audience reacted a certain way, and our opinion of the audience's reaction has no effect on the reaction itself.
So, back to the objective of the speech: which is more relevant to a speaker accomplishing an objective, the audience's reaction or the speaker's opinion of the audience? Obviously the reaction itself is far more relevant, as it is ultimately what determines whether the speech was a success or not. In light of that, it is sometimes necessary to choose your vocabulary wisely in order to accomplish your objective. That is what politicians do, hence the term "political correctness".
Everyone has a right to be as offensive as they want to be. All I'm saying is sometimes it is more practical to avoid being offensive. The first amendment has to do with what you can legally say and not say, and in this case it really doesn't enter into it. She's not going to jail for her comments, after all.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: RandalFlagg]
#5585883 - 05/03/06 01:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Most universities are infested with Leftism. It comes with the territory. That's one of the reasons why I left college.
I don't think the quality of a professor is based on their ideology, but rather how openminded and accomodating they are to the other perspectives. That's why this particular professor is obviously a shitty one.
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RandalFlagg
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: quillini]
#5585887 - 05/03/06 01:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
quillini said: Everyone has a right to be as offensive as they want to be. All I'm saying is sometimes it is more practical to avoid being offensive. The first amendment has to do with what you can legally say and not say, and in this case it really doesn't enter into it. She's not going to jail for her comments, after all.
But, she was given a lower grade merely for using a particular term. Then she was castigated in front of the entire class. This is completely innapropriate and the teacher should be disciplined.
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
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Re: Maybe I am alone on this... [Re: Silversoul]
#5585891 - 05/03/06 01:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
RandalFlagg said:
Most universities are infested with Leftism. It comes with the territory. That's one of the reasons why I left college.
I don't think the quality of a professor is based on their ideology, but rather how openminded and accomodating they are to the other perspectives.
You're right. Most of the time the blatant Leftism, while annoying, is harmless. This time it wasn't harmless.
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