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Offlinekotik
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: gregorio]
    #5592963 - 05/05/06 05:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

They just moved into territory that they viewed to be available.




point being, im pretty sure if the Europeans asked the Natives if they could move in (and accurately mention the volume to follow), they would have said no (ok, i admit thats 100% speculation).

So now, imagine you are an illegal immigrant. You haven't read our laws (i doubt most americans have either, myself included) on immigration, but you do know plenty of people who have made it over, and their families are now getting money...

what do you trust, the proof of a better life making changes right in front of you, or some words on paper that you have never read (maybe even can't)?

so in that alone, they are just moving "into territory that they viewed to be available."


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinegregorio
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: kotik]
    #5592968 - 05/05/06 05:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

They just moved into territory that they viewed to be available.




point being, im pretty sure if the Europeans asked the Natives if they could move in (and accurately mention the volume to follow), they would have said no (ok, i admit thats 100% speculation).

So now, imagine you are an illegal immigrant.  You haven't read our laws (i doubt most americans have either, myself included) on immigration, but you do know plenty of people who have made it over, and their families are now getting money...

what do you trust, the proof of a better life making changes right in front of you, or some words on paper that you have never read (maybe even can't)?

so in that alone, they are just moving "into territory that they viewed to be available."




I never made that quote!
:sad:

As for now that bothers me so much I refuse to reply to your post as of now.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: gregorio]
    #5593015 - 05/05/06 06:12 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

> I could really care less about the well being of illegal aliens and their families.

If you could care less, then why don't you?

> a mexican who runs across the border is just as american as you or i

By your (lack of) logic, everybody in the world is an American. Two hundred and thirty some odd years ago, I might agree with you... but this isn't the 1700's and the world has changed. I find it horrific that you cannot understand the basic difference between somebody born in America versus somebody born elsewhere.

> My Grandparents from one side of my family were immigrants..

Did they sneak in illegally? I doubt it. My gripe is not against immigrants. I don't understand why people confuse the immigrant issue with the ILLEGAL alien issue. (Well, I do, the illegals want us to confuse the issue.) There is a huge difference between somebody immigrating into the country and somebody breaking the law to enter the country. Immigrants are welcome, illegals are not. If we got rid of all the damn illegals, there would be a whole lot more room for legal immigrants to enter the country.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: Seuss]
    #5593080 - 05/05/06 07:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Annie's 12 years old, in two more she'll be a whore

Nobody ever told her it's the wrong way

Don't be afraid with the quickness you'll get laid

For your family get paid

It's the wrong way

I gave her all that I had to give

I'm gonna make it hard to live

(Big) soggy tears running down to her chin

And it ruins up her make-up

I never wanted

A cigarette pressed between her lips

But I'm staring at her tits

It's the wrong way

Strong if I can, but I am only a man

So I take her to the can

It's the wrong way

The only family that she's ever had

Is her seven horny brothers and a drunk-ass dad

He needed money so he put her on the street

Everything was going fine until the day she met me

Happy are you sad, wanna shoot your dad

I'll do anything I can

It's the wrong way

We talk all night, try to make it right

Believe me shit was tight

It was the wrong way

So run away if you wanna stay

Cause I ain't here to make ya, oh no

It's up to you what you really wanna do

Spend some time in America

Dub style!

She'll give you all that she got to give

But I'm gonna make it hard to live

Big soggy tears rollin' down to her chin

And it smears up her make-up

I never wanted

So we ran away

And I'm sorry when I say, that straight to this very day

It was the wrong way

She took a hike it don't matter if I like it or not

Because she only wants the wrong way

I gave her all that I had to give

But she still wouldn't take it, oh no

Her two brown eyes are leaking like a sieve

But it still ruins her make-up

I never wanted


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: fresh313]
    #5594163 - 05/05/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fresh313 said:
yeah what makes the irish potato famine fleers any different from the mexicans fleeing the economic famine of mexico?

what makes the quakers fleeing religious persecutiong in england any different from the mexicans fleeing economic drought?

everybody came to america running from something or looking to get rich.




Those people emigrated legally. Most Mexican immigrants have emigrated illegally. There is a big difference.


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5594479 - 05/05/06 02:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The problem with discussing immigration is that it makes the implicit assumption that it's rational for people to be granted citizenship as a result of being born in a certain country. I don't see how this is just, or makes sense.

Some countries are massively richer than other countries. People in rich countries tend to assume they have an unquestionable birth right to relatively huge affluence because they had the good fortune to be born there, or born in a country that allowed them to succesfully legally emigrate to that country.

To me, that seems horribly unjust.


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: OJK]
    #5594928 - 05/05/06 05:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

America is a reasonably lucrative country, per capita.

Am I wealthy? Fuck no... I'm lower class. Working poor. Don't make the mistake of equating a wealthy country with wealthy citizens.

For example, if i remember correctly Saudi Arabia has the largest per capita income in the entire world. Yet you can bet your ass that there are still some dirt-poor people in saudi arabia. They are citizens, they are poor, their lives suck.

There are plenty of impoverished american citizens. Many of them have lousy jobs, many are just plain unemployed. What makes things worse is that the kind of job that they are qualified for is the kind of job that many illegal mexican immigrants are willing to do for significantly less than minimum wage. That means that in order to compete, those people would have to accept similarly horrible wages. And you know what would happen if they asked for a raise? "You know, I could just fire your ass and hire an illegal for less money."


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I find your lack of faith disturbing


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InvisibleOJK
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: Konnrade]
    #5595182 - 05/05/06 06:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You can be "below the poverty line" in America, and still afford housing, heating, water, food, a television and perhaps even a car. You have access to free child education, free libraries and museums, some free healthcare, free legal representation, and free use of relatively impartial public services like the police and the fire department. That's what living in an affluent country means.

And what's the problem with immigrants being willing to work cheaply? They have the same living costs as you - in fact, possibly higher, as illegal immigrants often don't qualify for things like free healthcare. If they are willing to do the same job as an american citizen for less money, what's the problem? I thought that America in general was an advocate of competition?

If you have a problem with cheap labour, why not support a higher legal minimum wage, and dramatically increase penalties for businesses employing people (wither illegal immigrants or not) at a wage below the minimum?


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OfflineKonnrade
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Re: Biting The Hand That Feeds [Re: OJK]
    #5595662 - 05/05/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Don't get me wrong, I empathise with how unfortunate the predicament of illegal immigrants is, but a sweeping amnesty is not the best move.

They think that because there are so many of them that have evaded our border patrol, that they can start making demands as if they are entitled to do so.

They aren't citizens, which is why they aren't entitled to services that citizens are.

If you grew up in watts, dirt poor, and hated living there... would it be reasonable for you to drive to canada and start demaning that their government give you the public services that canadians get?

Should impoverished people from washington, wisconsin, etc. who can't afford healthcare start driving north of the border and demanding to be given canada's free healthcare?

Of course it isn't fair that mexico's standard of living is that much lower than america's, but that doesn't mean it's our responsibility to start giving handouts to people who leave their country illegally and move into ours. Our government is allready bad enough at balancing a budget... imagine how much more strain would be placed on the system if suddenly there were millions more citizens demanding public services. people who were in low income brackets that did not generate much tax money.

And, alternately, imagine how much more fucked up mexico would get! There are allready a number of people in mexico's government who are trying to slow emmigration from their country. The loss of people from their nation is hurting mexico. If america were to throw open it's borders, we'd be fucking with our country and fucking with theirs.


--------------------

I find your lack of faith disturbing


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