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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5585563 - 05/03/06 12:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
And you also don't depend on Albert Elvis or Howard Venom :lol:






--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Veritas]
    #5585648 - 05/03/06 12:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm all for trying to dismantle the "mental tape" machine if it has garbage on it. The problem is much of the really bad stuff is so old you can't even find it in the archives.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5585668 - 05/03/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes it's a problem. But you don't need to find it according to Ellis. All you need to do is start thinking rationally.

Hey that shouldn't be a problem for you. :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5585716 - 05/03/06 12:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

hehe, sorry..I simply don't like reading the quotings of unknowns over and over. I more like the original personal thoughts of knowns (of course even influenced by others), but it shows me more of someones character and reality. I will try to do my best to understand the personal thoughts of known interactive persons, so I will with yours, but those quotings distract me everytime and make me think someone bases his whole existence upon some writings, you know :wink: :grin:


Sorry, I didn't want to go off topic, I have to think about your comments about your original quote. From whom is it anyways ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5585859 - 05/03/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Is this meant to be posted to me? If it is I need to tell you my name is Icelander.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Posts: 6,697
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5586012 - 05/03/06 02:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, sorry, it was meant to you. Why did you put your original statement into quotation marks then ?
I will try to be more on concept.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5586037 - 05/03/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

contextual:
So it is better to be anti-social, to support his own egoistical reality ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5586094 - 05/03/06 02:46 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Yes, sorry, it was meant to you. Why did you put your original statement into quotation marks then ?
I will try to be more on concept.




It's a quote by Vernon Howard.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5586106 - 05/03/06 02:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Have you been reading any of this? I mean reading and then thinking about what you have read? Just asking, because from my end it isn't clear that you have.

I have already responded to this. :tongue:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineSporetacus
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Registered: 04/19/06
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5586128 - 05/03/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I thought I read that VH and his teachings were verboten on this board, but I could be wrong...  :tongue:


--------------------
I'm Sporetacus!


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Sporetacus]
    #5586169 - 05/03/06 03:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

They were only verboten in the context of who was reading or quoting them. But our ever faithful, honest and talented moderators are making sure only the right people quote him.

Thanks for caring enough to give me the heads up. :heart:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5586184 - 05/03/06 03:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Yes, I did read them. And as even Veritas tellings didn't make any sense to me, I want to sharpen the question, as I think the concept of reality is presented very egoistical (contextual) objective (what is subjective) here and on the other hand humanity is presented as not related to objectivity, very irationaly, perhaps even more personally subjective.
That is plainly wrong, as humanity carries a lot of realism and objectivity as like reality carries so much real humanity and subjectivity (damned words, perhaps I will find them sometimes). I can easily change the accent of these both concepts, as it seemed to have happened in your quote.

So, it is better to be anti-social, to support his own egoistical reality ?


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (05/03/06 03:23 PM)


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5586637 - 05/03/06 04:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

If you say so.  :crazy2:


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5597000 - 05/06/06 05:52 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Come on, you answered nothing.
False responsibilities are responsibilities we have invented for ourselves or what Albert Ellis calls "shoulding all over yourself".
There is a reason to be responsible for somethings and someones, one can find real reasons for shoulds, they are not all invented.

I'm abandoning no one. I just prefer reality.
What if you had to choose either your happy reality or the misery of someone based on your deeds ?

That's because you don't understand the nature of reality or my post.
That what you owe to reality, not to humanity ? Humanity is as real as well. So isn't Howards statement not quite egoistic ?

I'm having trouble relating this to the quote. You seem to have a different view on it that I frankly, don't understand. Same with Albert Ellis.
You didn't either answer the very good question of Lunar. He asked you about your personal outlook on the subject.

You lost me. Sorry. I have no idea what this has to do with the subject here.
same here

Yes it's a problem. But you don't need to find it according to Ellis. All you need to do is start thinking rationally.

Hey that shouldn't be a problem for you. 

That is exactly, why I started participating in that thread, turning this to you, formerly.

So,I have already responded to this.. No, you did not.
The quote is about the discrepancy of humanity and egoistical reality. Your answers skidded always around that discrepancy and you didn't post your personal answer related to that.
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5597342 - 05/06/06 10:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Come on, you answered nothing.
False responsibilities are responsibilities we have invented for ourselves or what Albert Ellis calls "shoulding all over yourself".
There is a reason to be responsible for somethings and someones, one can find real reasons for shoulds, they are not all invented.

I'm abandoning no one. I just prefer reality.
What if you had to choose either your happy reality or the misery of someone based on your deeds ?

That's because you don't understand the nature of reality or my post.
That what you owe to reality, not to humanity ? Humanity is as real as well. So isn't Howards statement not quite egoistic ?

I'm having trouble relating this to the quote. You seem to have a different view on it that I frankly, don't understand. Same with Albert Ellis.
You didn't either answer the very good question of Lunar. He asked you about your personal outlook on the subject.

You lost me. Sorry. I have no idea what this has to do with the subject here.
same here

Yes it's a problem. But you don't need to find it according to Ellis. All you need to do is start thinking rationally.

Hey that shouldn't be a problem for you. 

That is exactly, why I started participating in that thread, turning this to you, formerly.

So,I have already responded to this.. No, you did not.
The quote is about the discrepancy of humanity and egoistical reality. Your answers skidded always around that discrepancy and you didn't post your personal answer related to that.
:shrug:




OK here we go.

1)A false responsibility would be something like. If I don't go to Joes wedding then I'm not a good person because he really needs me there for support, even though I hate weddings and his bride.


2) I would choose my happy reality. My real happiness has never caused harm to anyone else, although many sure thought I should be different for their convenience.


3)You misunderstand this. Reality vs humanity's shoulds and musts.

4)As I said I don't understand the question.

Finally I'm afraid you don't understand this concept at all the way I do. Reality isn't egotistical, that's human, Reality is just reality.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineOldWoodSpecter
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5597352 - 05/06/06 10:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
1)A false responsibility would be something like. If I don't go to Joes wedding then I'm not a good person because he really needs me there for support, even though I hate weddings and his bride.





All responsibilities are like that, you can't put them in two groups like you do. Either all are false or not. Because every responsibility fits the above description


--------------------
I descend upon your earth from the skies
I command your very souls you unbelievers
Bring before me what is mine


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: OldWoodSpecter]
    #5597362 - 05/06/06 10:08 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

A real responsibility is one that you have accepted for yourself by free will or that you have created for yourself, as in having children and then caring for them. A false responsibility would be bowing to pressure from the community to take your children to church because they think that's responsible even though you don't believe church would be good for your children and you don't believe in god.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/06/06 10:10 AM)


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5597592 - 05/06/06 11:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Others thinking of your responsibility is not your responsibility. I even don't know, because I have forgotten, what others thought for me to be responsible of :wtf:
Either, you are responsible or not, as woody said.
3)You misunderstand this. Reality vs humanity's shoulds and musts.
Quote:

You owe everything to
Reality and nothing to humanity



That sounds really different.
Also, humanity is a part of reality.
Very artificial constructed case, far from natural reality what VH did there and that is why I can't understand him. [I collected many quotes from his site, but every one is wicked, biased and twisted as the one above]
But if it feeds you, may it be, as it be. I thought I would have known you better.
:shrug:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Something to think about. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5597598 - 05/06/06 11:59 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I thought I would have known you better.

Guess you were wrong.  :grin:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5597675 - 05/06/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Obviously


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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