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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Posts: 95,368
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Something to think about.
    #5582538 - 05/02/06 06:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"Anytime you wish to be relieved of false responsibilities,
and compulsive duties, remember this: You owe everything to
Reality and nothing to humanity."


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinehabitat0789
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5582553 - 05/02/06 06:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

good call. :thumbup:


--------------------

ilove my woods...


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
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Posts: 21,407
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5583085 - 05/02/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"You owe everything to reality and nothing to humanity."

So then is it morally OK to declare bankruptcy?


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5583138 - 05/02/06 08:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

False responsibilities are responsibilities we have invented for ourselves or what Albert Ellis calls "shoulding all over yourself".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinejustAkid
Member of myCulture

Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 323
Loc: The Present
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5583255 - 05/02/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

"Anytime you wish to be relieved of false responsibilities,
and compulsive duties, remember this: You owe everything to
Reality and nothing to humanity."




Why do feel a need to abandon you fellow human beings and your country?

Isn't love for fellow human beings an essential part of our nature?

Now I know the media and society expect us to participate in continuing to feed the "fat cats", and this may call for abandonment of societies' "false responcibilites, but these are responcilities are foriegn and come from society. We have every duty to humanity; to caring for, to protecting, and most importantly to loving the ones that are important to us and sometimes those that are not.


--------------------
Trust thyself.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: justAkid]
    #5583306 - 05/02/06 09:31 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm abandoning no one. I just prefer reality.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (05/02/06 09:32 PM)


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OfflinejustAkid
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5583421 - 05/02/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

I'm abandoning no one. I just prefer reality.




It just seems selfish to me to care more about your reality that human beings.


--------------------
Trust thyself.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: justAkid]
    #5583533 - 05/02/06 10:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

That's because you don't understand the nature of reality or my post.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflinejustAkid
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Registered: 11/05/05
Posts: 323
Loc: The Present
Last seen: 13 years, 6 months
Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5584093 - 05/02/06 11:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

That's because you don't understand the nature of reality or my post.




I am genuinely shocked by your arrogance. I can't reason with your superior understanding. I'm sorry to have taken your time with questioning ideas. I should learn to just accept everything that Icelander says by faith it seems.


--------------------
Trust thyself.


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OfflineCUBErt
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Registered: 08/24/05
Posts: 1,067
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5584107 - 05/02/06 11:36 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's because you don't understand the nature of reality or my post.




Maybe I don't understand either, but that sounded dreadfully similar to the words of many a clergyman who use the notion of some higher truth that only they understand to gain and keep leverage over their followers.


--------------------
-CUBErt
:cubie::levitate::cubie:


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Offlinea_h_w
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Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5584686 - 05/03/06 07:32 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

what you don't understand is that you're clinging to your dancing penis. get real and realize that reality does not exist, only life, interdependent and miraculously free.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Posts: 95,368
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: a_h_w]
    #5584747 - 05/03/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Here's what that Vernon Howard quote says to me. We owe our alliegence to the reality of who we are, to ourselves as individuals. To honor who we are and not the things that everyone else tells us we should be or what we imagine others think we should be.

Too bad you don't agree, but that's up to you.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinea_h_w
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Registered: 10/13/04
Posts: 236
Last seen: 10 years, 6 months
Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5584808 - 05/03/06 08:33 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

for has much has you think you can survive all on your own, you can't, for ultimately you depend on the light from a star. have you ever tried to listen to what people tell you without thinking? life is always speaking to you through every word and picture. you just have to go behind intention. there's a whole world revealing itself in every creature.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Posts: 21,407
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5584875 - 05/03/06 08:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

"False responsibilitiesare responsibilities we have invented for ourselves or what Albert Ellis calls "shoulding all over yourself."

You didn't answer my question but in the context that we can shirk whatever "responsibility we have invented for ourselves" that makes sense too. In other words, even though it's a debate and normal protocol to address the other debater's question or point, now given this new attitude, you just ignore their question and go on with your previous monologue.

I asked if this makes declaring bankruptcy morally OK?

OK instead of bankruptcy, here's another example. Let's assume you buy a new car and at first make payments, but then other more "real" responsibilities come up in your life that replace this "false" responsibility of the car that you "really don't want now". So that makes it OK to not pay Ford for the car? Does it make it OK for you to keep the car? Does it make it OK to also move and hide the car from the repo man? I mean what if you still "really" need to drive the car, but "really" don't want to make the payments, and "really" don't want the repo man to snag it. Keep it, drive it, don't pay for it, and above all QUIT shoulding all over yourself??


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Edited by LunarEclipse (05/03/06 09:02 AM)


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OfflineBikerfool
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Registered: 11/21/05
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5584924 - 05/03/06 09:15 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I agree with the original point.
We're not born into debt.
I owe nothing to everyone.
If I'm going to do anything for any one it's from my heart not because I have to do it.


--------------------
Just an angsty teen contributing to the pubs decline with contentless posts.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5585114 - 05/03/06 10:11 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
"False responsibilitiesare responsibilities we have invented for ourselves or what Albert Ellis calls "shoulding all over yourself."

You didn't answer my question but in the context that we can shirk whatever "responsibility we have invented for ourselves" that makes sense too. In other words, even though it's a debate and normal protocol to address the other debater's question or point, now given this new attitude, you just ignore their question and go on with your previous monologue.

I asked if this makes declaring bankruptcy morally OK?

OK instead of bankruptcy, here's another example. Let's assume you buy a new car and at first make payments, but then other more "real" responsibilities come up in your life that replace this "false" responsibility of the car that you "really don't want now". So that makes it OK to not pay Ford for the car? Does it make it OK for you to keep the car? Does it make it OK to also move and hide the car from the repo man? I mean what if you still "really" need to drive the car, but "really" don't want to make the payments, and "really" don't want the repo man to snag it. Keep it, drive it, don't pay for it, and above all QUIT shoulding all over yourself??




I'm having trouble relating this to the quote. You seem to have a different view on it that I frankly, don't understand. Same with Albert Ellis.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Something to think about. [Re: a_h_w]
    #5585118 - 05/03/06 10:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

a_h_w said:
for has much has you think you can survive all on your own, you can't, for ultimately you depend on the light from a star. have you ever tried to listen to what people tell you without thinking? life is always speaking to you through every word and picture. you just have to go behind intention. there's a whole world revealing itself in every creature.




You lost me. Sorry. I have no idea what this has to do with the subject here.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Something to think about. [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5585156 - 05/03/06 10:29 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

You are applying the quote to the material responsibilities which go along with our agreement to be consumers.  These are "invented" responsibilities, but not ones which go away when we stop thinking they exist. :grin:

"False reponsibilities and compulsive duties," in the Vernon Howard quote referenced, describe the spiritual/energetic duties we create in our own minds. 

"I should spend time with my parents, even though they abused me as a child, continue to express negativity whenever I speak to them, have no wisdom to offer me, and do not appreciate my company."

"I should disguise my true self from others in order to win their love and approval."

"It is not OK for me to enjoy being single, because everyone else thinks I should want to get married."

Etc....etc....etc...  All the mental "tapes" we play to keep ourselves in a rut, avoid taking risks, avoid alienating our companions.


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OfflineOctavius
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Registered: 03/22/06
Posts: 159
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5585157 - 05/03/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Well it depends on your priorities. I hold my reality higher then human contact, for human contact is sort of like a subdivision of my reality.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Something to think about. [Re: Icelander]
    #5585512 - 05/03/06 12:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

And you also don't depend on Albert Elvis or Howard Venom :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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