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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: FooMan]
    #5594813 - 05/05/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Actually, popcorn works fine. It's just the opinion of the majority of experienced growers that rye or wbs is better. Perhaps the biggest flaw of popcorn is the large kernel size, which means there are fewer kernels in each jar, therefore fewer points of inoculation. Not only fewer points of inoculation, but less total mycelium as well, since the mycelium grows on the surface of the grains. Smaller grains equate to more total surface area to colonize by getting rid of the large air spaces between kernels, thus you have more total mycelium per jar to use for spawning.

However, it's a brf/rye thread. I apologize for knocking it off course to popcorn.

I think just about everyone will agree that if you use Stamet's formula for effeciency, where you simply compare dry weight of the substrate to dry weight of the product, brf cakes will outperform just about any other growing method. However, if you factor time into the equation, grains to bulk substrate will deliver considerably more mushrooms in a given time frame in the same grow chamber. Since bulk substrates are so cheap and easy to obtain, I feel time to harvest is a more important factor of effeciency for the home grower than simply substrate weight, which might be the more important factor for a large commercial operation.

As for potency, we hear as many complaints about bulk grows as pf cakes. I personally think it's a strain issue and not a substrate issue. Bunk strains are rare, so if you get one, just do another grow and chances are they'll be great.
RR


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5594995 - 05/05/06 05:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
Actually, popcorn works fine.  It's just the opinion of the majority of experienced growers that rye or wbs is better.  Perhaps the biggest flaw of popcorn is the large kernel size, which means there are fewer kernels in each jar, therefore fewer points of inoculation.  Not only fewer points of inoculation, but less total mycelium as well, since the mycelium grows on the surface of the grains.  Smaller grains equate to more total surface area to colonize by getting rid of the large air spaces between kernels, thus you have more total mycelium per jar to use for spawning.

However, it's a brf/rye thread.  I apologize for knocking it off course to popcorn.

I think just about everyone will agree that if you use Stamet's formula for effeciency, where you simply compare dry weight of the substrate to dry weight of the product, brf cakes will outperform just about any other growing method.  However, if you factor time into the equation, grains to bulk substrate will deliver considerably more mushrooms in a given time frame in the same grow chamber.  Since bulk substrates are so cheap and easy to obtain, I feel time to harvest is a more important factor of effeciency for the home grower than simply substrate weight, which might be the more important factor for a large commercial operation.

As for potency, we hear as many complaints about bulk grows as pf cakes.  I personally think it's a strain issue and not a substrate issue.  Bunk strains are rare, so if you get one, just do another grow and chances are they'll be great.
RR




I guess that just about wraps up this thread :thumbup:


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OfflineAtomHeart
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: FooMan]
    #5595048 - 05/05/06 05:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Tee hee hee. Children, children...don't make me stop this car.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5595105 - 05/05/06 06:01 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said: ever since you(hippie3) started selling pf jars, you knock rye as a spawn material, and have kicked anyone selling substrate or jars off your site.  You praise popcorn as a spawn material as if it were a gift from the gods, so folks will fail and buy your pf jars.  Everyone around here sees through your shit.  Give it up.

Then you say you don't have a 'side' in the poll... :bendoverrover:
RR




rogerrabbitLOL.
fyi
i sell rye too
and plenty of it.
:cool:


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5596928 - 05/06/06 03:50 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

It all comes down to the substrate's nitrogen and L-tryptophan precursor content - Brown rice flower has the least whereas millet and rye have the highest.
For a poll to come up with that result Id have to assume that the people polled had simply never used millet.
When i started out back in the Drool Donkey days the guys in the know were Uma Guma, Major Millet and Workman among others and it was taken as a given that millet was a superior substrate.
As time has passed unforunately this information hasnt filtered down and it has to be proven again.
If you do a search for a post by Starter about a year back he actually posted a study that demonstrated Millet had the highest L-tryptophan content.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5596934 - 05/06/06 03:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Hippie3: 'further as anno also stated elsewhere
the most potent species grow on wood,
even less nutritious.'

This is irrelevant since we arent talking about a different species, we are talking about cubensis which does not fruit readily off wood. However, lignious or wood-based substrates are actually the richest in L-tryptophan precursors.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5597022 - 05/06/06 06:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

It all comes down to the substrate's nitrogen and L-tryptophan precursor content




you keep saying that
but you have never demonstrated
that to be factual.
the simple truth is that
there is more than enough
even in rice
to produce the miniscule amounts of actives present
in psilocybes.
any excess is just a waste.



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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5597924 - 05/06/06 02:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:rotfl:

So that explains why Straight BRF cakes are just as potent as mushies from Poo...:rolleyes:...IME , that isn't the case.

Obvisouly Brf lacks something that poo doesn't , and  that ain't no horse shit either....:cool:...

Just pointing out that Brf isn't as nute. rich as other substrates...However, it is good to spawn with :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5598343 - 05/06/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

being nute-rich is not the end-all criteria by any means.
there is no scientific evidence to support
the claim that brf-grown shrooms are lacking in potency
and thousands of people have tripped plenty hard off pf cakes
for many years and in many countries.
there is no way one can just write off the hundreds of trip reports
posted right here on shroomery wherein people got off very hard
on brf-grown cubies.
the real problem is the old school growers who want to
roll back the clock 10-15 years and make everyone grow
the same way they do.
since people won't do it just on say-so
they spread rumors alleging brf shrooms lack potency
to frighten the newbies into
doing it the 'right' way, ie. their way.
just like there was once a nasty rumor spread here
that the pfc strain made people sick,
this rumor that brf lack potency
is just as much
nonsense.
and i'll wager i can
find at least 1 dozen threads
right here on shroomery
within minutes that
reveal brf potency to be just fine.

but you are entirely correct about
brf making great spawn-
see
Behold the power of the cake!



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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5598800 - 05/06/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

'the real problem is the old school growers who want to
roll back the clock 10-15 years and make everyone grow
the same way they do.'

LOL - and BRF cakes are the new and modern method?

No one said BRF didnt work and that BRF gave you no potency - they are your words not mine. And that was the first time I made the precursor comment in this thread - a factual point that can be easily demonstrated.
Ill find the thread now...


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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5598875 - 05/06/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Firstly this link explains that tryptophans are the precursors to tryptamines - such as psilocybin and psilocin:


And here are two references found by Starter that demonstrate that Millet has a higher content of L-tryptophan/tryptophans:
http://www.doggieconnection.com/recipe/info/rice_flour_brown.html
http://www.ext.nodak.edu/extpubs/plantsci/crops/a805w.htm

And the original 14 page thread:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/1694393/page/0/fpart/1/vc/1


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5598896 - 05/06/06 08:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

^^ :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5598930 - 05/06/06 08:52 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

OOps i missed alink - the one on tryptophan being a precursor to tryptamines:
http://www.rhodium.ws/chemistry/tryptophan.html


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5598997 - 05/06/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

No it's not blue meanie, You're wrong, WRONG. Those aren't facts, not unh!...:rotfl:

Great info. man :thumbup:

-Gnostic


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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5598998 - 05/06/06 09:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I actually spent all morning creating all those links myself just to prove that I was right -


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OfflineIGnosticAbhorI
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5599005 - 05/06/06 09:16 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

:rotfl:

hahahahah

:lol:

You crack me up :grin:

I'll be reading everyone of them and puttin them in my favs...For later use :P

-Gnostic


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: IGnosticAbhorI]
    #5600210 - 05/07/06 05:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

even if
a] tryptophans are the precursors to tryptamines
and
b] Millet has a higher content of L-tryptophan/tryptophans
are assumed to be true,
that still does not logically prove
that millet will give more potent shrooms than a different substrate.

why ?
because potency is not open-ended,
tryptophans cannot just be added ad infinitum
to increase potency beyond the limit of the species itself.
cubies will only get to so much potency and then,
no matter how much tryptophan is still present,
stop.

what you have not shown
is that rice so lacks in tryptophans as to ensure
that cubies fail to reach their potential.

that is the missing part of your 'proof'.

and all the sarcasm, while cute,
doesn't faze me one bit, as you should know by now
so why not save yourself some extra typing
and just skip it and focus instead on meaningful
communication .


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Edited by Hippie3 (05/07/06 06:10 AM)


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5600216 - 05/07/06 05:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

here is just 1 of the trip reports here at shroomery
describing rice-grown shrooms
from
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post4478927

Quote:

I recently grew some eqs and gts using the pf style method with rice flour. the eqs were left as cakes and the gts were cased. I harvested my precious fungi and went out to my buddy's farewell party on a cool evening in the thick northwoods of wisconsin.
we all ate our shrooms and washed them down with another large bowl of nugz. at this point we all got out of the car and hung out with a few people we were cool with. about 30 minutes later i went to light a marlboro mild 100 cigarette and noticed the flame seemed rather large and close to my face from a 100. i thought nothing of it. soon after the flood gate were opened and the chaos raged through the crowd...

one of the guys i had given the mushrooms to began to act very odd and started running around staring at everyone there. he would say a bunch of crazy shit and then runs away. this was quite entertaining so i began to focus on his strange actions. i had entered My trip.

i began to laugh at him hysterically and had to walk off. as soon as i turned around a friend i haven't seem for a long time came up to me and began freaking out about my presence. he grabbed me and pulled me into his car to listen to some tunes. i sat down and listened for all of two minutes when i began to see spiraled grid lines in the sky. the lines were glowing red and the space within them went from dark blue on the inside to light blue near the edges. the trees outside looked like they were swaying left to right, but there was no wind...

the rest of the night went smooth, we threw in some pink floyd and smoked a ton of nugz. strong visuals were constantly being seen. things that were really appeared to be unreal, clouds especially. we had found a good place to be. i gave the guy leaving the last of my shrooms and we talked about the past and future for a long time. at about 6 am i left with my friends. i was still pretty messed and unbelievable tired. we got to a safe location and went to sleep.




the rice grown shrooms sure don't sound
all that weak to me.


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Hippie3]
    #5600226 - 05/07/06 06:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

here's another-
from
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat...rue#Post2172842

Quote:

Yestarday I had my first experience from my homegrown mushies. They were equador using the Pf-tek.

The Trip:

My friend came over, we were both excited to harvest the nice mushies growing on this cake. We took them all off and layed them out in a shoe box. We divided them up, me eating the most. A friend of ours, Liz, came over and we ate them while she was there. They didn't taste bad fresh, they seemed easier to take down than the cracker dry shrooms I'm use to getting on the street. After we ate them, we left in Liz's car and drove around and smoke some bowls. While we were in the car I started feeling the onset. It was about 5:30 or around there. My body felt GREAT, all tingly and energetic. This was much more of an intense body high than i have felt on street shrooms.

Me and my friend planned to just walk around when we started really feeling them. We got dropped back off at my house, and i was really starting to trip. Everything got that shroomy look, like my vision was made up of many many different very tiny particles. I went inside to get my jacket and came back out. My friend also was cold so we started towards his house. Everything was getting weird, like when i said something it just didn't sound right, but i enjoyed it. We got to my friends house and he went inside to get his sweatshirt, by this time i was REALLY feeling it, i was seeing things kinda melt and move here and there. I sat on the curb while my friend was inside, looking at this one house. As i stared at the building, something VERY strange happened, i felt like i entered some other dimension or zone. I heard this strange wind blowing like sound in my head, along with strange beeping or clickin noises. While i was hearing these noises the house in front of me started to bend and take on a different look. I was having so much fun, the house looked like it was a peice of paper and it was being blown in the wind, everything around me to seem to stop and i was just in the moment. Silence and serenity is all i can explain, a very weird feeling.

My friend came out of his house with his sweatshirt, I had forgotten about him completely and I told him about how I was feeling and what was going on. We continued to walk around, everything was alive to me, kinda jumping around. I would look at the ground and it would move around and shift down and up. I gazed at the sky as we walked around, it was beggining to get dark and it was such a clear night, it seemed like every star that existed was out and shining down upon us. Everywhere I looked i would see faint patterns on things. Tiny intricate patterns with different colors.

As we walked around this neighborhood, I definitely was at the peak of my trip I would say. I was in a different world, everything had changed. I looked at a tree and the bark would crawl and slide around, I was loving this. The whole night I was just thinking how good these shrooms were, they just had my mind completely shot into space.




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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Rye vs PF? [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5600232 - 05/07/06 06:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

bluemeanie said:No one said BRF didnt work and that BRF gave you no potency - they are your words not mine. 




LOL
these are your words-
Quote:

  BRF is shite.




close enough.
:cool:
and you are
wrong.



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Edited by Hippie3 (05/07/06 06:15 AM)


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