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Offlineebass
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multispore?
    #5578870 - 05/01/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

While reading a post earlier, I came across the mention of cloning a mushroom to keep the progeny's potency the same.  The term "multispore" was brought up.  I don't know what it means but I am guessing from the context that it may be deleterious on the potency of a strain. 
I have been keeping my grows going via G2Gs.  The mycelia don't give off spores so I assume that "multisporing" does not happen at this point.  However does this keep my strain from mutating?
Any help greatly appreciated!

Oh and by the way this is what you guys helped me create. :tongue:
These are all dried...though I have no idea how much these weigh.  Any guesses are welcome.


:wink:
Thanks again.

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Offlineebass
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5578958 - 05/01/06 09:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

bump

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InvisibleDarkenshroom
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5578986 - 05/01/06 09:08 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Ok let me explain it as best as I understand it, and expect me to misspell a few terms hehe.

Multispore inoculation is the act of inoculating from a syringe made from print. When the spores germinate the form monokaryatic mycelia which then colonize nearby substrate seeking other monokaryons, once two monokaryons meet they form a dikariatic mycelium which then continues to colonize the substrate when a dikaryon meets another monokaryon it absorbs its into its mycelial network, when two Dikaryons meet one of them absorbs the other.

What this results in, is an inoculation without any knowledge of the strength, viability, yield, and potency of the end result.


Cloning is the process by which one can take a potent fruit from a large yielding sub-strain that was the result of a multispore inoc and using agar ensure its genetics stay intact. However this results in a degradation of the genetics and eventually you can no longer grow out a clone. I imagine one could take a well isolated cloned out strain and spore it, and hope that the genetic makeup results in a better chance for a clone worthy fruit again.


Other than fruit cloning, one could also take agar and grow out a dish and take an isolate wedge of some good rhizo strong mycelium, and grow that out. I do not think that agar isolation is as exact in knowing whats gonna result as cloning is, but agar doesn't have cloning's drawbacks.

Darken
*smiles and waits to be corrected*


--------------------
~The first and most important step in cultivation of the wonderful mushroom, is the cultivation of patience for without it you doom yourself to failure~

Edited by Darkenshroom (05/01/06 09:11 PM)

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5579000 - 05/01/06 09:11 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

multispore is exactly what it sounds like - when more than one spore comes together (two monokaryotic mycelia meet and form a dikaryotic mycelia)... once dikaryotic, the strain has a chance at fruiting. a typical spore-syringe inoculation results in several dikaryotic strains growing together. (it gets a little more complicated, there's a phenomena where the diakaryotics can "mate" but the term for that evades me at the moment) anyway, as the dikaryotic grows, after so many cell divisions mutations and degredation can happen. when you're grain transferring or tissue cloning, you're keeping the same strain(s) alive. its not so much related to time as it is how far it has grown out... but think of it kind of like people and old age. when you get older things don't work quite the way they did when you were young. but an old guy can knock up a girl and you start with a brand new baby. this is what happens from multispore...

so there's two ways around it. one is to keep your "master" strain suspended (say, by refrigeration) and just use grain transfers from that to start other jars. that way each new jar you make is a second generation, instead of a third, and fourth, and so on... the second way around it is to collect a spore print and start it all over again. the same method would also apply to keeping a "master" liquid culture, or agar plates.

if you want an even more scientific explanation, there's a good thread over in advanced here

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Offlineebass
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Re: multispore? [Re: Darkenshroom]
    #5579053 - 05/01/06 09:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Hmm...interesting how the clones' dna eventually degrade. Reminds me of the cloned lamb "dolly" and how it died of old age when it was only six years old. Damn dna degradation.

So when you grow out a clone...ahh man I still don't understand how it keeps its genetic integrity. If the potency and yield of a strain depends on two random monokaryotic mycelium does this mean cloning ensures this process is not random? I am confused..

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5579070 - 05/01/06 09:20 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

yep you got it. if you clone from tissue from a mushroom, you're effectively isolating a dikaryotic strain that you know for certain is capable of fruiting (not all are). then subsequent grows from that isolated strain will result in very similar fruitbodies with identical genetic makeup (except for any random mutations of course)

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Offlineebass
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5579081 - 05/01/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

thanks for your explanations, guys.  I understand what multispore means.  Oh and can you guys guess the weight? :smile:

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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5579138 - 05/01/06 09:30 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

is this like the "guess how many jelly beans in the jar and win them all" game? :smile:  looks like about 40 grams?

actually... there is another way to slow the degredation of your strain that i forgot to mention... and that's changing the media type.  that's why pepole alternate between PDA and MEA agar... and i believe you can do the same with grain transfers if you vary the type of grains you use.  something about forcing them to eat new food causes them to remain vigorous longer...

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Offlineebass
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Re: multispore? [Re: creamcorn]
    #5579282 - 05/01/06 09:49 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I don't own a scale...your guess is as good as mine.
Agar would be nice. I will buy some soon. Thanks for everything creamcorn. Take it easy!

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Offlineskeletor
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Re: multispore? [Re: ebass]
    #5579511 - 05/01/06 10:38 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

if it grows on the same subtrate it looses the ability to produce enzimes to break down (eat) otehr substrate so by rotating your are keeping its ability to make all the good enzimes. kinda like how i used to know french fluently now ive forgetton almsot all of it at least to speak beucase its been 8 years haha


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im sorry about your mother. She was a terrible attrative woman.

Get back to nature; hunting burgers and gathering fries.

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