|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: evil [Re: Deviate]
#5586381 - 05/03/06 03:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
I don't doubt I would get much support for my beliefs in a world full of drunks. 
I tend to look deeper at human motivation then our so called Justice system. I doubt the distinction matters much to the dead person. If you drive drunk, to me, it's like shooting a gun into peoples living room windows. You just like to shoot at windows and don't intend to kill anyone. But opps!
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
|
Quote:
Sporetacus said: Hmm, who is more evil, a guy who tortures a bird because he is mentally twisted; or the Captain of the Exxon Valdeez who killed hundreds of thousands of birds, sea mammals and fish due to negligence?
who is more evil is not relevant, whats relevant is that there is a distinction between these 2 types of evil. because there was much more at stake in the case of the captain, your anaology doesn't apply. a more apprpriate analogy would be someone who kills one bird due to neglegence and someone who kills one bird because he is mentally twisted.
Edited by Deviate (05/03/06 03:50 PM)
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
|
Isn't a moral mind itself a twisted form of the animalistic mind? So who is twisted then? The "good" mind or the "bad" mind? Being good is supression of our animal urges, which in itself is an anomaly in the animal world.
You are forgetting that the early man, before civilisation was by all current standards evil, he killed, he raped, he hated. Civilisation tried to stop that kind of behaviour because people realised unnatural behaviour (from the natures point of view) is far more pleasant that intuitive and natural behaviour. Yet current trends seem to try to awake the natural brain in the man
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
Edited by OldWoodSpecter (05/03/06 03:53 PM)
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Every behavior is "natural", it's evolution that changes things.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't doubt I would get much support for my beliefs in a world full of drunks. 
I tend to look deeper at human motivation then our so called Justice system. I doubt the distinction matters much to the dead person. If you drive drunk, to me, it's like shooting a gun into peoples living room windows. You just like to shoot at windows and don't intend to kill anyone. But opps!
ok, i see what you're saying and i'm always happy to meet people who feel this way because i think our society is far too accepting of gross neglegence such as drunk driving. for example, i know someone who had 3 DUIs and somehow still had his license. last sunday he crashed into a tree and split his skull open while driving completely wasted. that could have been a family of four he hit. i guess ive been influenced by the fact that at least half the people i know have driven drunk at some point and i don't want to consider all these people as on the same level of murderers. ive always felt drunk driving was inexcusuable but there are people who will put up a vehement fight arguing its not that bad. for example they'll say a drunk driver only has a 0.000001 chance of causing a fatal accident for every mile he drives. i guss i think murder is worse because when you intend to kill someone there is a far greater chance they will come to harm then when you drive drunk.
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: Every behavior is "natural", it's evolution that changes things.
In a way, but what I ment was natural in the conventional sense of the word. If are hungry, the natura thing to do is eat, if you refuse to eat you are defying nature as it is defined in the conventionals sense.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
Re: evil [Re: Deviate]
#5586442 - 05/03/06 04:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't doubt I would get much support for my beliefs in a world full of drunks. 
I tend to look deeper at human motivation then our so called Justice system. I doubt the distinction matters much to the dead person. If you drive drunk, to me, it's like shooting a gun into peoples living room windows. You just like to shoot at windows and don't intend to kill anyone. But opps!
ok, i see what you're saying and i'm always happy to meet people who feel this way because i think our society is far too accepting of gross neglegence such as drunk driving. for example, i know someone who had 3 DUIs and somehow still had his license. last sunday he crashed into a tree and split his skull open while driving completely wasted. that could have been a family of four he hit. i guess ive been influenced by the fact that at least half the people i know have driven drunk at some point and i don't want to consider all these people as on the same level of murderers. ive always felt drunk driving was inexcusuable but there are people who will put up a vehement fight arguing its not that bad. for example they'll say a drunk driver only has a 0.000001 chance of causing a fatal accident for every mile he drives. i guss i think murder is worse because when you intend to kill someone there is a far greater chance they will come to harm then when you drive drunk.
I think what they are trying to say is both are the same because in case of drunk driving you are blind because of alcohol, and in case of murder you are "blind" because of some ignorance about the ways of the universe.
But put a mouse near a cat, and the cat will kill it, that's the way of the universe, as it is demonstrated. The pacifist way of the universe is nowhere demonstrated exept in religious and philosophical teachnings of HUMANS.
So I still believe there is a difference because people who murder are not blind to anything, they act like animals act, and for the sake of ourselfs we must isolate them.
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: evil [Re: Deviate]
#5586451 - 05/03/06 04:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Cool! I believe that we as adults are responsible for our actions and decisions. The culture tends to keep us in a state of adolescent irresponsibility. It's always someone else who is "making me do this" (she wouldn't keep her mouth shut so I had to shut it for her.I did mean to hit her that many times but she made me crazy your honor) Or a chemical imbalance (which could be possible in extreme cases but not the way we are abdicating responsibility for everybody these days) and such nonsense.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
|
Re: evil [Re: Deviate]
#5586459 - 05/03/06 04:06 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
While I don't believe in evil, per se, I do see a difference between someone who is grossly negligent (i.e. the parent who does not seek medical for their seriously ill child, or fails to provide proper nutrition, hygiene, etc...), and someone who is intentionally cruel or murderous.
However, IMO, the negligent person is more hypocritical than the person who is clear about intending harm. When your responsibility is clear, as in driving sober, caring for young children adequately, not sending thousands to their death for political purposes, and you deliberately neglect that responsibility, you are both ethically compromised AND a hypocrite!
"But I didn't intend any harm!" Oh, but they didn't intend to avoid doing harm, either. This type of behavior is repugnant to me.
|
OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
Posts: 4,033
Loc: mountains and lakes
Last seen: 17 years, 3 months
|
|
Quote:
Icelander said: Cool! I believe that we as adults are responsible for our actions and decisions. The culture tends to keep us in a state of adolescent irresponsibility. It's always someone else who is "making me do this" (she wouldn't keep her mouth shut so I had to shut it for her.I did mean to hit her that many times but she made me crazy your honor) Or a chemical imbalance (which could be possible in extreme cases but not the way we are abdicating responsibility for everybody these days) and such nonsense.
Can humans be any different from what they are as a part of nature? Can a killer be any different? Can a deer be any faster? Or is it all determined by laws of physics? How can human brake laws of physics?
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
|
Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
|
Re: evil [Re: Veritas]
#5586512 - 05/03/06 04:18 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Veritas said: While I don't believe in evil, per se, I do see a difference between someone who is grossly negligent (i.e. the parent who does not seek medical for their seriously ill child, or fails to provide proper nutrition, hygiene, etc...), and someone who is intentionally cruel or murderous.
However, IMO, the negligent person is more hypocritical than the person who is clear about intending harm. When your responsibility is clear, as in driving sober, caring for young children adequately, not sending thousands to their death for political purposes, and you deliberately neglect that responsibility, you are both ethically compromised AND a hypocrite!
"But I didn't intend any harm!" Oh, but they didn't intend to avoid doing harm, either. This type of behavior is repugnant to me.
you make very good points and i think i agree with you. basically this is precisely why i think drunk driving is inexcusable. aside from perhaps a life and death situation there is simply no viable excuse for doing it. so i wasn't necessarily saying the person who is intentionally cruel is always worse, i was just pointing out that i think a difference can be inferred and it is seems to create an interesting point of discussion.
|
PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: But put a mouse near a cat, and the cat will kill it, that's the way of the universe, as it is demonstrated.
That is a COMMON misconception....!
Us cats only intend to PLAY with the mice (for extended periods of time) - in which if the mouse is not in good enough physical shape, it will die of exhaustive NATURAL causes.... If the little shits did a little cardio workout every once in a while, things might be a little different.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
|
Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Cool! I believe that we as adults are responsible for our actions and decisions. The culture tends to keep us in a state of adolescent irresponsibility. It's always someone else who is "making me do this" (she wouldn't keep her mouth shut so I had to shut it for her.I did mean to hit her that many times but she made me crazy your honor) Or a chemical imbalance (which could be possible in extreme cases but not the way we are abdicating responsibility for everybody these days) and such nonsense.
Can humans be any different from what they are as a part of nature? Can a killer be any different? Can a deer be any faster? Or is it all determined by laws of physics? How can human brake laws of physics?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Sporetacus
Swashbuckler

Registered: 04/19/06
Posts: 152
Last seen: 17 years, 8 months
|
|
Quote:
How can human brake laws of physics?
I was once pulled over for exceeding the speed of light.
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
|
stefan
work in progress

Registered: 04/11/01
Posts: 8,932
Loc: The Netherlands
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
|
|
We don't even have a word in Dutch that is exactly the same as 'evil' (as in what it means to me).
For me this word breathes a pure dark athmosphere by itself that doesn't have much to do with what is good or bad. I also woulnd't use this word much to describe events in reality, for me it's more about drawings, music and so on that have this certain athmosphere to it. I like it
|
|