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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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dear god
#5575929 - 05/01/06 12:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the christian god made humans to worship him. the sole purpose of humans in this life and in the next is to worship their creator. there are many ways to worship. the christian god decided to make himself seperate from his creation; to give no undeniable evidence that he is right here. he will not communicate with us directly. however, even though he does not give us undeniable proof that he is here, that he made us, and and that he loves us, he expects us to believe he is and does through the word of mouth of other humans who claim to have been important enough to communicate directly with this god. if you are unable to convince the logic center (or ALU hehe) in your brain that there really is a god because you can "feel" him or you trust the writers of the bible to be telling the truth, or out of simple fear of the consequences, then this god will banish you to eternal suffering. period.
I have been lied too all my life by many people. Humans lie. It is impossible for me to know if the people thousands of years ago were lying, if it was just a big fairy tale they liked to translate, or if it was the truth.
So here, GOD, is your final chance to win my soul. This is the last stop for you in the short existence of my life. I want you to reveal yourself to me NOW or never. as of 5/2/2006 (central) I will give up on the pursuit of any possible diety and live life according to my own moral code and how I think a godless society should live.
peace
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5575938 - 05/01/06 12:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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With an attitude like that, you might as well be pure fire trying to penetrate water.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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I'm not sure what you're talking about. This is an honest attempt for me to understand what you believe. If there is a god and he is out there, I simply want him to tell me personally that he is there and that he loves me. I don't want someone from thousands of years ago to do god's job for me.
personally, I don't think I'm asking a whole lot.
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DICK
Stranger
Registered: 12/28/05
Posts: 555
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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you know... fire CAN penetrate and burn underwater...
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Posts: 7,059
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Re: dear god [Re: DICK]
#5575967 - 05/01/06 12:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was thinking of natural fires, not fuel fires
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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getting off topic but lava coming from the earth's mantle under the ocean definitely burns things down there.
hawaii is an example of fire penetrating through water.
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
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THe "christian" God is teh same God of the Jews, and the Muslims. Stop making it one way or the highway. God wants you to love him and others, even if they lie. God made the good, and teh bad. He also gave us free will. You can choose to believe what you want, good or bad. Thats your privelidge as being a human. Do you want to be good or are you looking for a clear conscience while doing evil? Somehow I doubt that the latter since you are lookign for God in teh first place.
Dont look for God in churches or as a big bearded guy in teh sky. Look for him where he told you to.
"lift a stone and you will find me, turn a leaf and I am there."
Nature buddy, spend some time in nature away from all of mankinds idiocy and let God's creation speak for itself.
Peace
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Re: dear god [Re: blaze2]
#5575994 - 05/01/06 12:24 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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i don't think you really understand what i'm asking.
I am unable to convince myself that the writers of the bible were telling the complete truth. With the way my brain works, it will not allow me to accept the belief in something that I cannot witness first hand. I am "Thomas" in a sense.
If you are able to see god in biology or the laws of nature or math or whatever, then good for you. I can't. I need whatever creator is out there to tell me personally.
Seriously, am I asking so much guys?
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5575995 - 05/01/06 12:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said: I'm not sure what you're talking about. This is an honest attempt for me to understand what you believe. If there is a god and he is out there, I simply want him to tell me personally that he is there and that he loves me. I don't want someone from thousands of years ago to do god's job for me.
personally, I don't think I'm asking a whole lot.
Why do you need to understand what other people believe? Your search should be between you and God alone if you are sincere in knowing Her.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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I was referencing your belief in a god, whatever gender "it" may be.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576056 - 05/01/06 12:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, my philosophy is Christian Gnostic.
I believe in a golden rule: that Mystery precedes physics, and that the Ultimate Reality that sustains existence itself is God - Allah - Brahman, whatever the Logos (the aspect of the Divine Reality that lives in people) might be referred to by various traditions and cultures.
I do not believe that Jesus of Nazareth was a historically real person, but rather a perpetual symbol, a pure idea constructed by early Jewish mystics. The pure idea that is Jesus is that of a man whose Awareness of the Source of Being, God, was perfected.
I believe that becoming God is the goal of every spark of Consciousness, to return to its Source, its original state of simplicity in the Fullness of God. I do not believe in Heaven or Hell, for God is neither a hedonist nor sadist. The wages of ignorance of God is the cycle of death and rebirth. I believe all Consciousness eventually returns to God. If the spirit is unable to absorb the experiences of one host, it will rebirth in form to give it another attempt, and the spirit spark wallows in this cycle until it finds a host that allows it to completely live within them. As Paul said, "I live but I live not, Christ lives in me." Allowing God to live within us - to effectively become God, is the only way (what I call the spiritual method) to survive physical death. While the wages of ignorance of the Source is death and rebirth, the fruits of Liberation is eternal unity/glory with God, the Fullness of God, where all that is aware is aware of Itself, where every spark of consciousness becomes One Consciousness, in pure simplicity, in Pure Love and Compassion.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576067 - 05/01/06 12:58 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have you ever heard the story about teh man in a flood?
Theres this guy who is sitting on the roof of his house stranded after a flood. A guy comes by on a boat, "hey man, need a lift?" No says the man, "god will save me". Then a guy in a helicopter comes by "hey need help sir?", no says the man "god will save me." Then no one else comes and the man is alone and dieing adn he says "God why didnt you save me?" and God says, "I sent you a helicopter and a boat you refused"
Thats not the way I heard it but I couldnt quite remember what he sent anyways its the same thing. God gives you signs everyday, teh squirell running across the road, the sound of birds singing, the wind through the trees. Its not His fault if you dont take the signs he gives you. They will always be there though waiting for you to see them. Peace
blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Right now I am burning through different theories trying to find the truth. If there is a one entity god out there, he should make himself known to me by midnight tonight. If not, then I suppose I will have to search other possibilities such as an unconscious god. The path to self Ascension or reaching Christ Consciousness is probably the next path I'll explore.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576080 - 05/01/06 01:02 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Ultimatums are bad karma
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Re: dear god [Re: blaze2]
#5576083 - 05/01/06 01:04 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
blaze2 said: Have you ever heard the story about teh man in a flood?
Theres this guy who is sitting on the roof of his house stranded after a flood. A guy comes by on a boat, "hey man, need a lift?" No says the man, "god will save me". Then a guy in a helicopter comes by "hey need help sir?", no says the man "god will save me." Then no one else comes and the man is alone and dieing adn he says "God why didnt you save me?" and God says, "I sent you a helicopter and a boat you refused"
Thats not the way I heard it but I couldnt quite remember what he sent anyways its the same thing. God gives you signs everyday, teh squirell running across the road, the sound of birds singing, the wind through the trees. Its not His fault if you dont take the signs he gives you. They will always be there though waiting for you to see them. Peace
blaze2
It is impossible for me to make this connection! It is too far fetched for me to assume that things that I can explain via natural laws, physical properties or mere coincidence are the work of something greater!
I NEED a conscious god to tell me himself!
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Wouldn't the potentially everlasting damnation of my soul be worth risking bad karma? I am begging whatever conscious god is out there to save me by making himself known in an undeniable fashion!
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576099 - 05/01/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I HAVE to believe that if there is a god out there that loves me and wants the best for me and my soul, that he (or her) WILL do this for me. His (or her) inaction in this case is denying his (or her) love for me by denying my cry for help and damning me forever!
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576100 - 05/01/06 01:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God is not a sadist. God is like a gentle lamb. Would a gentle lamb torture you? No. If you are unable to touch God in one life time, He will recycle you and give you another chance. And another. And another.
Hell is not a literal reality.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Like you said, I'm not interested in your religion. This is between me and god. What you are describing is an unconscious god and that is totally irrelevant in my present case. I might explore what you are talking about in the future if today is unrevealing.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576116 - 05/01/06 01:14 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Well, good luck on your search. Do not stop seeking. There is nothing concealed that won't be revealed.
Peace.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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blaze2
The Witness


Registered: 12/20/02
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Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
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Dont you understand that God has already given you all the signs hes going to. The next time God shows himself you will not need to be told. it will be after the apocolypse.
Just because God can do something doesnt mean he will. God doesnt want to save you, God wants you to save yourself.
THe "natural laws" can explain everything huh? Who set those laws man? For what reason are they in perfect balance? Ask any scientist, if you were to change any of the 4 forces, Electricity, gravity, magnetism and Nuclear by even teh smallest bit everything in our reality is thrown into chaos. Why out of all the infinite possible arrangements did our universe take the one perfectly balanced?
I like that you want to believe in him man I was there too. only 2 years ago did I start believing before that i was an agnostic. You want to save yourself. You dont need God to do it for you, You can wait and wait and wait, but in the end you have to take the step yourself.
I'll give you a book recommendation though. "Siddhartha" by Herman Hesse. Its about the first budda, and his spirtual journey. Its very well written if nothing else man, and the guy won a Nobel prize so you know hes good. Peace
Blaze2
-------------------- "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein "peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein "Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one." Thomas Jefferson "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: dear god [Re: blaze2]
#5576174 - 05/01/06 01:35 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Is that for me or fearfect?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
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i dont think this is going to work. i tried it when i was a kid and my grandmother told me about God. i wanted God to come down from heaven, show himself and back up what she was saying right then and there or at least give me some kind of sign. when this didnt happen i felt that God didnt exist and i was an atheist for the next 14 years. i was so atheistic that even once i found the spiritual path and received my proof i still refused to interpret my experienes form a theistic standpoint opting for buddhism instead. eventually i realized there was no difference and i had to acknowledge God.
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WIZOLZ
Poor with Needs


Registered: 03/20/06
Posts: 290
Loc: Monte Carlo
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576257 - 05/01/06 02:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I think one thing you have to clarify for yourself, is that God isnt always an external entity that can be seen, much less called apon in the idealistic sense (wanting to hear and actually see a supernatural miracle for proof.) Although, the spirit does exsist externally, in every aspect of nature (blaze ) Most people, are calling out to the external, hoping for this outside force to change their weaknesses and forgive them. The danger in this is that we look to things that are not true relations of what we should percieve God as. I most certainly do not judge your need to find assurance, to have a certainty, to have a direction in somthing, indefinately. I get angrey with it all very often. My confusion and helplessness, but I have faith and this sustains me while I live. I can tell already, that right now you are not ready to know God, nor am I (worthy anyone?). The moment will come somday, but not through any random thoughts from an obscure forum or to appease your need to be convinced. God will not answer to you, I've learned this, he is not our servant.
-------------------- ---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o- ---------------------------------------------------------------- Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold --------------------------------------------------------------- "The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance" ------------------------------------------------------------- WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576409 - 05/01/06 05:46 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Try a direct contact through private prayer and meditation, absolutely opening your heart, with all your hopes and sorrows and offer your will in his goodwilling hand. Chances are high that he will reveal over time to you. But it's not a matter of test or prove, it's a matter of honesty and that will take time. Once it/she/he shows you the way you can recognize it/her/him, you can more focus your awareness on this aspect, becoming more into 'contact' and interacting. Psychoactive substances (like meditation) are a good way, too, to look behind ones ego, which barriers the way to g*d. IMHO
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bobjones
...


Registered: 10/12/05
Posts: 999
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576427 - 05/01/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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the path to god for me was/is love. relax, take your time, find love in your life, and god will make himself known to you.
-------------------- "Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Re: dear god [Re: bobjones]
#5576521 - 05/01/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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none of you people understand. I am not looking to find god after or during some huge emotional ordeal.
So many of you claim to know what god wants or is doing for me.
If the biblical god loves me, he will not cast away my last cry for help.
I have very little reason to pursue the search for a god beyond this.
Again I am not interested in "feeling" him in nature or anywhere else.
For me to believe he is real, he must talk to me.
There is absolutely no reason for me to spend my entire life chasing some pipe dream that might not even exist! That is all.
thanks for the input
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576524 - 05/01/06 07:55 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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one last time, I reiterate: I can not search for a god that I do not know is real. If he will show himself to me ONLY after I have convinced myself of his reality, then he is condemning me to hell.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576567 - 05/01/06 08:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Then I don't hope, you will experience a near death experience today. Or should I ? Good luck.
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kilroy
Hightimes



Registered: 04/26/06
Posts: 768
Loc: Deep within my spirit
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576581 - 05/01/06 08:39 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Dear fearfect:
I kind of understand what you mean. I went on a whole thing about does he exist or not, but the one thing I did find is that it is up to you to find the answer yourself. For me I beleive that there is one god(no matter what you call him or her) and all he wants from us is to love and help each other. As for the bible here is somethings for you to think about, it has been rewritten over 200 times and each time it has been altered to affect a certain why to fit those times. I am not here to offend and if I do I am sorry but if you do a theoligical study my friend you find this stuff out(theoligical means all religous groups not just one). Do I beleive in Jesus, to the point that he was a man and the son of God in the same way we are children of God. I believe he was a profit just like bubba, mahamad, and others who pretty much preached the same thing love and kindness. I think I know the emptiness you might be feeling(not saying I do, but I might) at answering this question. It was a long difficult road and scary as hell at times(pardon the pun it wasn`t ment to be that way). You alone will have to search your heart and mind and come up with your own idea, just remember of all the religions that are out there they all pretty much say the same thing love kindness and forgivness(and I do know how hard it is to beleive when there is so much bad going on in the world today). I did not wwrite this to flame any fires or start any, I hope that it might help if so good if not then keep searching friend, dont ever give up in this harsh world. I am sorry if I offended anyone, but this is how I beleive and everyone has thier beliefs
-------------------- IS NOT THE JOURNEY OF THE TRIP JUST AS IMPORTANT AS REACHING THE DESTINATION.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576594 - 05/01/06 08:47 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said: none of you people understand. I am not looking to find god after or during some huge emotional ordeal.
So many of you claim to know what god wants or is doing for me.
If the biblical god loves me, he will not cast away my last cry for help.
I have very little reason to pursue the search for a god beyond this.
Again I am not interested in "feeling" him in nature or anywhere else.
For me to believe he is real, he must talk to me.
There is absolutely no reason for me to spend my entire life chasing some pipe dream that might not even exist! That is all.
thanks for the input
There is no god going to talk to you dude. There, now you don't need to believe he's real. So now you can get on with your life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576717 - 05/01/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If there is a one entity god out there, he should make himself known to me by midnight tonight.
If the biblical god loves me, he will not cast away my last cry for help.
Deuteronomy 6:16 "You shall not put the LORD, your God, to the test." if you're going to follow the Bible literally, might as well observe all of it, eh?
With the way my brain works, it will not allow me to accept the belief in something that I cannot witness first hand.
Good, then don't believe in something you cannot witness. But at least ask yourself this: what is it that is doing the witnessing? *COUGH*GOD*COUGH*
I NEED a conscious god to tell me himself!
God can be likened to consciousness itself!
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Cherk
Fashionable


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5576729 - 05/01/06 10:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It takes much coaxing for god to break the silence. Be steadfast in your meditation and study of spiritual texts(the vedas most importantly) along with the practice of bhramacharya and you will find what you're looking for.
--------------------
I have considered such matters. SIKE
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OldWoodSpecter
waiting


Registered: 02/01/05
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Re: dear god [Re: Cherk]
#5576743 - 05/01/06 10:22 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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The only way you'll going to find god is if you look for him out there.. and by looking for him out there, you'll find him within yourself.
lol, I still kick ass in this cryptic talk
-------------------- I descend upon your earth from the skies I command your very souls you unbelievers Bring before me what is mine
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Quote:
OldWoodSpecter said: The only way you'll going to find god is if you look for him out there.. and by looking for him out there, you'll find him within yourself.
lol, I still kick ass in this cryptic talk
ROFL thanks  if god is too good for me to be tested and not do this one thing for me, then i guess we'll never be friends?
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5577163 - 05/01/06 12:28 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Or perhaps His eye is on the sparrow, and not on the Shroomery?
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
Loc:
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Re: dear god [Re: Veritas]
#5577173 - 05/01/06 12:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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T minus 10 hours
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5577184 - 05/01/06 12:35 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Have you seen "Bruce Almighty"? It's gotta be tough keeping up with all the requests.
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5577217 - 05/01/06 12:45 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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So what happens if He doesn't appear and say "Hey there!"?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fivepointer
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5577271 - 05/01/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Only sinners are saved. Sinners are those who have been convicted of sin, righteousness and judgment by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit comes like the wind to those who God has determined to deliver from the just punishment they so rightly deserve. The Spirit is like the wind, and it comes when it wills to whom He wills. Contrary to popular opinion God loves all those who He has willed to save, and no others. If a person is damned, God does not love that person. Each one that God loves, He saves. What makes the difference between damned and saved? Is there something better in one person, and not in another? NO WAY! All are worthy to be damned, the only difference is God's sovereign grace alone.
The testimony of God is this, that all are spiritually dead, that all are ignorant of God's righteousness. That the core of false religion is that a man can contribute something to his own salvation, but he can't!
God's law is inflexible, without mercy, unbending, can not be broken. Every person is under the law and this will be righteously applied and justice will be carried out. Now in order to deliver a sinner from the law, the demands of the law must be satisfied. Christ had to come under the law, and the sins of His people were imputed to His account. He had to suffer the wrath of God for those sins. This is the only way for God to remain just and at the same time justifier. God can not show mercy at the expense of His righteousness.
The way God is revealed is not by some vision or sign, but by the truth of the Word, applied by the Holy Spirit. God's love is revealed in that sinners that should only receive wrath are shown unconditional love.
The law is summed up in this: Matthew 22:36-39 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
You must keep this PERFECTLY. But no one can! But Jesus DID! He is the righteousness that God will accept! Only through the imputed righteousness of Christ and atoning blood can a sinner be reconciled to God.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Wow, if I am predetermined saved, I can sin all day long ! Sorry, that only does make sense, if we don't have any clue about g*d. In your terms: Why would he present his word if it doesn't matter if we follow it or not ? Sadism ?
And now, don't say the saved hold his laws anyways everytime (that is not true) and the others are to be tortured in life, even they are the nicest and goodwillingst persons on earth...
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
Posts: 1,845
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Re: dear god [Re: dblaney]
#5577446 - 05/01/06 02:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
dblaney said: So what happens if He doesn't appear and say "Hey there!"?
then i will be forced to assume that A) There is no conscious god that truly loves me and B) which follows A, that if there is a conscious god that exists, he does not want my soul.
I've spent 21 years wondering and in search of a god. my dad is a protestant pastor. i grew up being taught everything i should believe. I always asked the hard questions that required the response "Only god knows that" or "You should ask god when you get to heaven". I am roughly 1/3 through a normal life span. I am tired of looking for something that very possibly does not exist (ie wasting my life). Nothing I have experienced in my life requires the construct of a god. Therefore, I am doing the only thing I know that will prove to me that there is or isn't a god. I knew about the text about testing god before I posted this thread. I don't believe this is a test. I am not testing god like satan tested jesus in the desert. This is a cry from a hopeless individual that wants to know once and for all if there is a god that loves me.
I find it interesting that so many of you are posting your ways to find god. I never really asked for any comments to this thread. God must have spoken to many of you in some way since you are able to claim "God wants" or "God doesn't" or "God does this". Consider yourselves prophets. I have tried searching out "there" to find god "in here". In my past I have cried in desperation and exasperation for something, anything, to let me know i was not alone. I of course was left more hopeless still.
So this thread here, I post my last, absolutely final ultimatum. If there is a god out there, prove to me today that I can stop saying "If". Prove to me that the first 21 years I've spent on this earth have not been wasted by living life according to an ancient hebrew book of moral codes.
This is the end
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dblaney
Human Being

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That the core of false religion is that a man can contribute something to his own salvation, but he can't!
A) So man is helpless.
You must keep this PERFECTLY. But no one can! But Jesus DID! He is the righteousness that God will accept! Only through the imputed righteousness of Christ and atoning blood can a sinner be reconciled to God.
B) Aha! So someone did something and as a result, was saved! And furthermore, you say that anyone can through the righteousness of Christ and atoning blood. How is this not a contradiction to A?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5577655 - 05/01/06 03:26 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I find it interesting that so many of you are posting your ways to find god.
Clearly I don't speak for everyone, but the way I see it, there are many paths, but only one [without a second] Truth. People post what they've learned from their paths in order to help you out on yours. There are valuable words that come from the hearts of many others; it would be folly to brush them aside without at least considering them.
I have tried searching out "there" to find god "in here".
Have you ever seen someone wearing glasses running around madly trying to find their glasses which they thought they lost? Running around trying to find God is just as silly, I think. For if God is other than you, then you've just said that there is something aside from God, which means that he is One with a Second, that there is another being at least as powerful as God. If this is so, then God is not omniscient and omnipotent, which would mean that he isn't God.
There's a quote on a print by Alex Grey I have, it says:
You can never be lost. When have you ever been apart from Me? You can never depart and never return, For we are continuous, indistinguishable.
So to you, Buddha, I would heartily suggest that you get to Know Thyself.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fivepointer
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Wow, if I am predetermined saved, I can sin all day long ! Sorry, that only does make sense, if we don't have any clue about g*d. In your terms: Why would he present his word if it doesn't matter if we follow it or not ? Sadism ?
And now, don't say the saved hold his laws anyways everytime (that is not true) and the others are to be tortured in life, even they are the nicest and goodwillingst persons on earth...
The converted are made new creations and God writes His laws on their hearts. Although they still sin, sin does not have dominion over them. They will show godly sorrow for sin, because sin will disturb the inner man.
Obedience is a result of the grace that was freely given. Love is the motivation, not fear. A regenerated soul can never lose salvation no matter how many sins are committed. Now if a man claims I am under grace, and then uses this rationality as a license to sin, and sin has dominion over him, then it most likely shows he really was a false professor, and was never regenerated.
Christ's obedience is the only obedience that is acceptable because it is without blemish. This is why personal obedience forms no ground of justification, because it is not perfect.
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fivepointer
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Re: dear god [Re: dblaney]
#5577957 - 05/01/06 04:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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B) Aha! So someone did something and as a result, was saved! And furthermore, you say that anyone can through the righteousness of Christ and atoning blood. How is this not a contradiction to A?
Fallen man is helpless, but Jesus is not fallen, He is spotless. He was not born with a fallen nature in the line of Adam. This is why His obedience perfectly obeyed and fulfilled the law and is acceptable.
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Philanthropist
Savior ofMankind

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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5578051 - 05/01/06 04:58 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I once believed as you did, that what we believe is god can be found in the physical world by revealing visually, but that is not the case. I did not find what I believe is god in a book, I found him in the comfort of a hard time in prayer. You must search within yourself and find what you believe is to be God. My search for god led me to this unbelievable destiny to save mankind but I can't go to jail and humiliate my family.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5578470 - 05/01/06 07:05 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why do you need God so much?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Deviate
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God is no respector of persons, meaning he will not appear for you just because your ego demands it. this doesn't mean God doesn't love you, it's just not his style. furthermore, giving God a deadline to appease you is putting him to the test.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: dear god [Re: Deviate]
#5578602 - 05/01/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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It's amazing to me how so many people seem to know gods mind. He never speaks for him/herself and some people here are going to tell us what gods thinking and what his/her motives are. Sounds like some ego inflation to me.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: Deviate]
#5578611 - 05/01/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Agreed.
"Thou shalt not tempt thy Lord thy GOD"
It would seem that demanding the Mystery to not be Mysterious is another reasoning of the samsara. I think fearfect knows full well that nothing will happen by the time the rooster crows.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
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Quote:
Icelander said: It's amazing to me how so many people seem to know gods mind. He never speaks for him/herself and some people here are going to tell us what gods thinking and what his/her motives are. Sounds like some ego inflation to me.
exactly what i've been thinking the majority of this thread. God apparently isn't going to speak to me, but he has no problem letting all these people know that.
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Deviate
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5578649 - 05/01/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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why make a thread if you dont want our interpretations?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Re: dear god [Re: Deviate]
#5578668 - 05/01/06 08:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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He's debating.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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5/2/2006 12:00 AM this marks the day and time that my life begins
thanks for all the input everyone. good luck in your spirituality.
peace
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5579679 - 05/01/06 11:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said: 5/2/2006 12:00 AM this marks the day and time that my life begins
You aren't going to update that marker every second, are you? That would get tedious... might as well make a script! 
 Peace.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5579919 - 05/02/06 12:27 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
fearfect said: 5/2/2006 12:00 AM this marks the day and time that my life begins
thanks for all the input everyone. good luck in your spirituality.
peace
Hehe...next stop, Politics, Activism, and Law
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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bobjones
...


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Quote:
Basilides said:
Quote:
fearfect said: 5/2/2006 12:00 AM this marks the day and time that my life begins
thanks for all the input everyone. good luck in your spirituality.
peace
Hehe...next stop, Politics, Activism, and Law
heh that was my cycle too. turning away from religion, politics, activism, law...and then i started tripping...which reversed things just a bit
-------------------- "Outside of a dog a book is a man's friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read" -Groucho Marx
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: bobjones]
#5580087 - 05/02/06 01:13 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was crossing my fingers that God would come out of the time-space warp for fearfect tonight
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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DoctorJ


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5580208 - 05/02/06 02:03 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I don't think god responds to threats, but
There is a mathematical pattern behind all existence. Its called the flower of life, metatron's cube, the golden ratio, the fibbonaci sequence.
Also, have you ever wondered why the world isn't a pile of nuclear ash right now? Have you ever wondered where the world came from? If you find a watch in the desert, do you think it just appeared by itself, or was there a watchmaker?
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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Re: dear god [Re: DoctorJ]
#5581363 - 05/02/06 12:44 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God is about the total pattern. Ego can see only narrow parts of it.
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leery11
I Tell You What!

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Something makes me think that what most people construe as "worship" is anything but.....
making glorious holy music and attaining a meditational state and giving that to others.... that is worship.
Praying and meditating very deeply so that you may sense the presence of "God" and commune.... that is worship.
Being overcome with the beauty of life and transcending ego-games..... that is worship.
but sitting in a church having a book read to you, which uses a language somewhat irrelevant to modern times, and then being lead in a simple recitation of MERE WORDS!!! I don't think that is worship.
You can use the Bible for "worship" in a sense of meditating deeply upon the text....... but words are a human construct and can only take you so far, you have to go INWARD to worship properly.... and once you do what use do words have of you?
Saying "I love you God" isn't even remotely as beneficial as actually truly with every fiber of your being BEING LOVE....... if you ARE love...... then there's no need to sit around talking about it, now it's time to turn it back on to the world right?
Not to say there isn't a "God" it just seems like we personify this concept from our narrow understanding of that which lies inward in all of us.... that which we all share on the most spiritual and high levels..... so praying is one way.... but experiencing and BEING and allowing transformation is the "better" way.... and that is worship.
Buying a homeless man food is worship....... not because you are obligated but because it pulls on your compassion and you feel tender warmth and kindness for him....... that is worship......
and what you do with that, if you want to attribute it to metta, or you want to attribute it to Jesus or the Father... and so in doing you may go through gestures such as "Thank you Lord for this" that's fine..... or you may just stay silent and bask in love...... more of a Buddhist approach, cut all the words out, just go experience God for what it is without expectations......
the notion of controlled, unthinking, dogmatic "worship" is not correct I would say...... the God that so desires to be worshipped that he gets "angry" or "jealous" is simply OUR GOD our inner temple that we have defiled and even forgotten that it exists... so no wonder it's "angry" well "it" isn't... it's more like "we" are and we translate those limited understandings to "God"
but God is just... that which is........ by putting a label around it you now have the "essence" of God but you no longer have God, because God cannot be contained......
who knows anything!
This is just what I'm saying and maybe there may be some rightness in it..... or maybe you have to go to church a lot and read the Bible all the time and pray only to Jesus and it doesn't matter that his name used to be Joshua or Yeshua or Jesu .... you have to call him Jesus....... and it doesn't matter if God used to be Yahweh or Jehova, you have to call him God....
see where the problem of words is? Jesus may indeed be..... but not necessarily like people think... not necessarily even "Jesus" or a "person" but still real..... real in the sense of compassion...... real in the sense of a man standing up for what is right, helping out others, and trying to turn other people on to the God frequency, the Christ-Consciousness.....
but I just think the most likely place to find Jesus is in your own heart, not in a book that is somewhat contradictory and hard to understand.
lessons? Morals? Morals are for people who haven't tried to develop their own morals, that need to be told what to do.... it's more of a rigid way of attaining spiirtuality... it works... but the other way is through the direct realization of COMPASSION and LOVE and once you realize that you will come to the same conclusions Jesus did.... it's the same thing as "accepting Christ" I would wager......
sort of a universal religion where any differences and conflicts are man-created, not God created. God, Allah, Tao, NO GOD (Buddhism and other such religions), it's all God...... humanism.
"Kindness is my religion" - Dalai Lama. How can we know? How can we trust ourselves to know? Those who know try to teach, but those they teach to DO NOT KNOW and those who DO NOT KNOW are the ones who take the teachings and distort them and start weird rituals and churches and social institutions........
cut out the middle man, go to God on your own...... so maybe that means going to a church and worshipping as Christians do, but you'd better be careful to find a church where people are full of love, not dogma and fear and confusion....
great help can be found in a Sangha..... but it needs to be done properly...... so yeah.............
talking onward and onward.......... rambling about and away.
Maybe some of this is correct. It seems it to me....... but I am not divorced from the fear of being wrong.
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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mikeownow
Humungus fungus

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Re: dear god [Re: leery11]
#5581475 - 05/02/06 01:20 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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God doesnt exist.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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BlueCoyote
Beyond


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You mean, he doesn't exist in your mind ?
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TheGus
The Walrus

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god has been shown to me... quite frankly im not impressed
now, the universal consciousness is fucking brilliant and quite honestly im glad i did not gaze upon it with my physical eyes because im sure i would have been blinded, however my non-physical eyes did the trick.. even if it was only once for an immesurabley small amount of time (actually i was out of the flow of time at the moment so... it was literally no time at all)
god and the devil are powerful, but their just tools, just like me... o well
o, and fearfect (think thats your name)
try praying, if you can't hear someone respond you definately aren't crazy enough to be human (were a pretty crazy bunch of conscious entities) and if that dont work, start praying to lucifer, because i assure you he's real and with any luck you will end up meeting a demon or two before too long (they offer you proof if your willing to learn some truths)
i suggest you research into astral projection firstly, the path you desire shall find you in time however
-peace
-------------------- "It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet "Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car. -mo0nlite_sonata Psythos
Edited by TheGus (05/02/06 05:12 PM)
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Quote:
mikeownow said: God doesnt exist.
Just because you don't have a conscious relationship with God doesn't mean that He does not exist.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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dblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
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Perhaps he meant it in the Nietzschean "God is dead" sense?
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: dblaney]
#5582349 - 05/02/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I never understood what Neitzche meant by that
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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dblaney
Human Being

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""God is dead" is not meant literally, as in, "God is now physically dead;" rather, it is Nietzsche's method of explicating how God has ceased to be a reckoning force in people's lives, even if they do not recognize it. Thus, as further propounded by Nietzsche, it is necessary that individuals go beyond normative considerations of God and morality, due to what the values of Christian morality signify, in both thought and action."
This reminds me of a funny shirt. On the front it says:
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
and on the back it says:
"Nietzsche is dead." - God
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Quote:
Basilides said: I never understood what Neitzche meant by that
He meant that God is dead as a source of morality. He saw that people were no longer turning to the church or the bible as their source of moral guidance, and he feared that this would lead to nihilism. So he set out to establish a philosophy that would prevent nihilism in a world where God is dead.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: dear god [Re: dblaney]
#5582392 - 05/02/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Hah
I saw that shirt before. And Dr. Hoeller joked about it in an audio lecture once.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5582461 - 05/02/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I still need to read this thread, but dude, I know EXACTLY what you mean. I'm at that point myself, though it's been protracted over many years. This is serious shit, probably the single biggest reason my fiancee and I broke up. It's not that I look down on Christians; in a way I envy them and wish I felt what they feel. But I don't. I grew up believing, and I would stil believe if I was able to understand it or if it touched me in a way different from, say, Santa Claus or some shit. It's hard losing faith, and it would be nice if Christians understood what someone goes through when they really wrestle with the concept of God. But since most Christians never question it, we have no common ground where we can understand each other.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5583371 - 05/02/06 09:42 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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If you had even a glimpse of the outer radiance, you'd fall on your face and worship. You don't have a clue to the Experience. It's all an intellectual exercise and about ego for you. You just don't get it.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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quillini
one meanmotorscooter


Registered: 04/18/06
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: If you had even a glimpse of the outer radiance, you'd fall on your face and worship. You don't have a clue to the Experience. It's all an intellectual exercise and about ego for you. You just don't get it.
Of course he doesn't get it. He's been saying over and over that he doesn't get it. Have you ever experienced wanting so badly to feel something that you see others feel, that gives them peace, before which they would bow with fear and trembling and recognize as the almighty? Have you experienced the sickening aloneness of an empty universe, calling out to God and always getting an away message?
Maybe this universe is connected, maybe there is a God, but God is so brutal and arbitrary, it often seems fruitless to appeal to him. I mean, God lets millions of people in Africa starve to death and die of AIDS. What makes you think he gives a shit about your prayer or mine? It's all either random and meaningless, or this vengeful, jealous, cruel, unjust, and most unrighteous God has found a good bunker to hide in.
You don't know what someone has experienced, and it is entirely possible you're the one not getting it.
-------------------- No; truth, being alive, was not halfway between anything. It was only to be found by continuous excursions into either realm, and though proportion is the final secret, to espouse it at the outset is to insure sterility. Only connect...
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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"the outer radiance"
Would it be so much to ask for some of you to define the terms you use? Criticise me all you want for not understanding, but please, I am a realist; I need to know what you are talking about. What is "the outer radiance" or the "Experience"?
If "its all about ego", I need you to define what "it" is. What is all about ego? Tell me, what is it that I am not experiencing?
Are there any ascended masters here? Is there anyone who understands existence in a universal consciousness?
I'm just throwing out bones, but if you think you understand some higher power or consciousness, I'd be glad to hear you out. I just need you to be as REAL as possible. Don't talk in circles or give out "mumbo jumbo" cliche says or speak with a cryptic tongue. I need step by step instructions in the realest way possible.
So far in my study, Crowley's Book 7 on step by step meditation and enlightenment has been almost exactly what i'm looking for. He promises when and describes the experiences that the practitioner will go through regarding control of the mind. I'm not going to get too deep into this here, but if anyone can point me to similar readings i'd be very interested.
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5584323 - 05/03/06 12:42 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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You are using the ego the fathom the egoless. You are using rationality to fathom the transrational. It seems to me that you're trying to know God on an impossible empirical level, not the heart. There is no step by step process. Spirituality is not a mechanical process. It is deep love, to fall in love, to become love.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Deviate
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Quote:
Basilides said: You are using the ego the fathom the egoless. You are using rationality to fathom the transrational. It seems to me that you're trying to know God on an impossible empirical level, not the heart. There is no step by step process. Spirituality is not a mechanical process. It is deep love, to fall in love, to become love.
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Sporetacus
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Re: dear god [Re: Deviate]
#5584408 - 05/03/06 02:48 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
You are using the ego the fathom the egoless.
So? I can fathom my egoless car engine (using rationality). What does that have to do with anything?
-------------------- I'm Sporetacus!
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Basilides
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Can you become your car engine?
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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fearfect
Registered: 01/15/04
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Last I checked, "Love" is a chemical reaction in your hypothalamus. It can be distorted and triggered off randomly in cases.
I don't think "transrational" is a word, perhaps you meant to cleverly disguise "irrational", and if you claim that god (being what i was seeking) is irrational, then my search was still for naught.
you're right, I do need something concrete. something logical.
what I really don't need is to hear that this god everyone talks about is just a feeling, i.e. something that is not real; something they know so very little about, yet still manage to become hopelessly attached (re: in love) with it.
Before I personally commit anything to anything, my first edict is that it must exist and I must either know that it exists or have strong reason for it to exist by way of well-deserved trusted authority (authority meaning one who has 'supposed' higher insight into something relative to me. There are very few of these people that I personally hold). Jesus was this authority for many people. Muhammad for others. To garnish my respect, this so called "authority" or teacher must show and explain to me a logical and methodical approach to this being and/or utopia.
for example, Jesus' "believe and love in me" version of reaching his nirvana is not methodical or concrete in any way. It cannot be tested, there is nothing but unmeasurable "feelings" at stake here. What threshhold of loving or believing in Jesus does one need to get to heaven? 50%? .0001%? 100%? Surely no mortal can believe or love something absolutely completely.
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dblaney
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5586223 - 05/03/06 03:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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my first edict is that it must exist and I must either know that it exists or have strong reason for it to exist
Do you exist? Yes or no?
Go from there.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Basilides
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5586899 - 05/03/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Jesus is not the one you love with all your heart and soul - it is God, the Absolute Reality - the Holy One that lives within us, not Jesus. Jesus was merely an awakaned individual. I don't know what to tell you man, but you're not on the path to enlightenment and self-realization if you can't use your God-given imagination for a single moment. If you see Love as nothing more than a meaningless chemical interaction/reaction, there is no hope for transformation (at least at this moment). Maybe in time you'll see the higher (metaphysical) nature of kindness and compassion, but not right now. I don't know, maybe you're culturally fatigued with Christianity? Try studying Hinduism or something. There are as many paths to the Holy One as there are people.
Peace, and good luck on your search.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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I think you're both wrong and it is your Saintly Mother that you should worship.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
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--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


Registered: 02/10/06
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Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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"Jesus wept"
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
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Re: dear god [Re: fearfect]
#5588071 - 05/03/06 10:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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One day when you eat a lot of mushrooms you will understand. The reason you do not understand what people keep telling you, this "mumbo jumbo" as you call it, is because you have confused words with reality. The bible was never meant to be taken literally. You have been taught that there is a material world and that God was an anthropomorphic thing that created the universe out of some material.
You say that "Love is a chemical reaction" as if that were actually explaining something. What is a chemical reaction? What are those chemicals made of? What are the atoms made of? What are the sub-atomic particles made of? What does it mean to say that something is made of something? Things aren't made, they exist.
God is everything and because it has everything it needs nothing more and so it loves itself. To love something (something being all that there is) is to love god and be with him. If you want to find a way to find God, start by loving his creation and not being angry at him. In fact, being angry at God is to not accept reality. If you trust that everything is good and as it should be, as it really is, then you will have no reason to doubt God's love. I am not claiming to be superior to anyone or to know God, you can take what I am saying or leave it.
However, you should get this idea of an anthropomorphic god out of your head. God cannot be known intellectually. When you find God, it won't really a thought like "oh, God is THAT", it will be a feeling. You will just feel it in every fibre of your being. At a higher level of consciousness, it becomes obvious that all you that you pride yourself on knowing is nothing more than being able to put words on things but behind the words is just pure unfiltered being and you are not seperate from it.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery


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Thou art that.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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