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Psilocybeingzz


Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6452673 - 01/12/07 03:36 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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Nothing you have stated (as your opinion no less) has had any shred of truth to it, it is merely your unfounded opinion, or the regurgitation of other peoples opinions.
Unture.
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jesus...... how can I show proof against something which has absolutely no truth to it?
I asked for proof of all the claims Scientology makes, thats all, a few success stories, why don't you have any??
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Many people in L. Rons family were quite pissed off to find out that all of their inheretance had gone to Scientology and not them.... so understandably they could be pissed.
Right, I'm sure thats all there is to that story. They knew he was crazy, and many of them have said it.
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Also.... Scientology doesn't claim to be a science...
Yes it does. It claims to help people, using their techniques. And tell me, why the name Scientology?
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see this is what I am talking about, you make claims, which you think are solid fact, and then expect me to disprove them? how can i do that when you only offer opinions or other peoples opinions, which I personally know to be delusions born from ignorance of the subject?
Show me some evidence that its helped people, and didn't exploit them, show me show proof?? I mean there must be countless stories of people whom then have helped..... RIGHT?
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Do you realize that you have yet to actually bring up anything about the churchs beliefs or framework? Do you realize that your entire argument has been to attack L. Ron Hubbard. It is like saying Pope Benedict was a member of the nazi party, so all of catholocism is pure bullshit.
We are not talking about any other religions, we are talking about Scientology. And thats why I didn't bring them up. As for Catholicism, they should give away some of the 60 or so billion they have if they really care about the world. Thats ridiculous, being in a religion like that, and not asking, hey why so little charity? I mean,.. we have over 60 billion dollars. Back on topic.
I DIDN'T just attack L.Ron, I attacked the "religion" , because its a scam, and they hurt people that get in their way. I didn't just repeat opinions. I have seen these "churches" I have met people both in Scientology, and those that have left. My thread started with one really messed up encounter with one of them.
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Maybe if you offered something more than ad hominems and strawmen arguments, I could offer proof, but until then I am stuck showing hopw ignorant you are regarding this matter.
So no proof then?  Not even ONE STORY of someone Scientology has helped from an independent source? Ad hominies and straw men huh? Thats your argument? Do you know the meaning of the words you are using?I gave you a few links, and plenty of evidence, not to mention an opinion or 2 from what I have SEEN, not just heard. And thats what you say in return.
Well, I don't want to get ahead of myself here. But SET POINT MATCH. YOU LOSE. Unless you have something to offer? Some proof? Anything???
And BTW, a CHILD can often see through Scientology's techniques, and fraudulent therapy. So try and grow up a little huh? Your last post was the weakest of all. I am no expert on debate, but I would say your losing bro
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6453122 - 01/12/07 05:32 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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ok Napoleon, I didn't know that was the kind of "proof" you wanted.
First off, regarding the name Scientology, as I have stated in this thread, and many other, translates in to the "Study of Knowledge" or sometimes considered "learning how to Learn".....
If you want success stories, then search for them online. Here.... really quick..
http://www.seekers-of-truth.com/success_stories.htm
in fact, there a probably a million success stories online..... but I dont really consider that "proof" just as I dont consider someones account of being scammed as "proof" against... it is biased both ways.
And if you want a personal account.... I personally know a bunch of people whos lives are better because of Scientology.
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Yes it does. It claims to help people, using their techniques. And tell me, why the name Scientology?
yes, it claims to help people, like any other church or charity.
As for "evidence".... there is no real evidence to be had for or against... I know you think you have shown evidence, but it is no different than the above link being evidence.
So... here is some more personal revelation from me regarding Scientology.... My mother is an OT7, but hasnt practiced Scientology for about 8-10 years. She harbors no ill-feelings against the church, and stopped because she was at a point in her life where she wanted to be, she was/is happy and basically felt there was no further need to continue.
BTW, while she was a single mother, making a little under 40k a year, she achieved one of the highest levels of Scientology, while putting me through college..... so... there goes that big scam theory. She isnt in debt either.
Also, no child is ever forced to be a Scientologist, which is why I am not one. Granted I have studied it, and taken some courses to see what it was all about, but that was all on my own volition.
So, now it is my turn to ask you some questions.... id you dont mind explaining to me the core beliefs of Scientology, and maybe even explaining some of their practices and "techniques" since you have been so immersed in the Scientology society..... you must know a lot about it, right? Lets just see how much you know, because I can personally verify it all and later even show you sources which state so.
You see... anything can be considered helpful or hurtful, benevolent, or malevolent. If I wanted to expend enough energy and time showing you the great conspiracy of the Girl Scouts of America, I could throw down a fairly convincing case against it. One of the first things you do in Scientology is called the Purification Rundown, where you spend 1-3 weeks taking fish oil, lecithin, salt, potassium, and lots of other vitamins, then jog a mile and spend a few hours in the sauna after taking enough niacin to dialate your capillaries. But how easy would it be to slant it and say " they forced me to consume countless amounts of pills and forced me to run til exhaustion, then kept me in a sauna until I couldnt take it anymore, and then charged me 500$ for this torture"...... see, it is all how you wish to recount the experience. It isn't scientific, it is health sense, and it isnt really any more expensive than if you were to do it yourself.
Really.... can you believe the audacity of those evil Scientologists? getting people healthy and all? the nerve!
So play on if you want to.... I will sit by while you scramble to educate yourself in a cliff note fashion so you can respond to my aforementioned question regarding their beliefs, practices and "techniques".
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6453980 - 01/12/07 10:26 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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just wanted to bump it because :
(you pick)
1: didnt want the thread getting buried with your hectic schedule and all..... 2: Didnt want your victory to go unnoticed.
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Psilocybeingzz


Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6454105 - 01/12/07 11:24 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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So play on if you want to.... I will sit by while you scramble to educate yourself in a cliff note fashion so you can respond to my aforementioned question regarding their beliefs, practices and "techniques".
I haven't read your whole post yet, but you often attack me personally, and my methods, maybe because you realize you have lost. I will admit it, I went right to the bottom of your post, I wouldn't doubt everything above it is just as "educational." 
If I were to take a vote, you would lose, I don't feel like rubbing it in, and I really don't want to discuss some stupid cult and the people that blindly accept them, maybe tomorrow. When I feel like it. I have to "ruin" my mind with some Cannabis and have dinner. Then maybe a movie, or I might install a video game, both of which will be more interesting then talking to you.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6454143 - 01/12/07 11:40 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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Psilocybeingzz


Registered: 12/15/02
Posts: 14,463
Loc: International waters
Last seen: 11 years, 2 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6454157 - 01/12/07 11:47 PM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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Wow. You sure are a good debater.
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Lightningfractal
Nutcase

Registered: 06/24/03
Posts: 14,899
Loc: Heaven and Hell
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6454217 - 01/13/07 12:06 AM (17 years, 20 days ago) |
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Scientologists can choke on their own vomit.
-------------------- Hi how's it going, wanna kick Heroin basically painlessly on your own, in your own house, without any government "help" ,or the "help" of a crazy condescending, judgmental medical doctor? Read this: https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=42&Number=7342616&page=0&fpart=all
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6454676 - 01/13/07 05:07 AM (17 years, 19 days ago) |
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how exactly can you critique my debating skills when you refuse to not only understand what I am saying, but go as far as to not read what my rebuttal is?
You asked me for personal accounts and success stories regarding members of Scientology..... twice no less..... in fact, you hung your entire argument on that..... and I have provided it for you.
Then I pose a simple question for you to relate to me any shred of knowledge you have regarding Scientology and its beliefs, practices or "techniques" and you can't even face it.... you have to run away and hide behind personal attacks.
You accuse me of mounting personal attacks yet the only thing I have done outside of debating your "proof", is attack your credibility and knowledge of Scientology... which you have only dodged and mounted further personal attacks.
How about sticking to the issue at hand and stop pussing out. You want to claim that you have won this argument, yet refuse to even acknowledge my side of the debate. If you cant even reply to my answers, and cannot step up to my one offensive challenge I have presented you with, then just admit that while you have no counter for my rebuttal, (then picture yourself sticking fingers in your ears and yelling "i cant hear you! I cant hear you! nah nah nah nah, la la la la la la...... ")
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Lightningfractal]
#6454677 - 01/13/07 05:09 AM (17 years, 19 days ago) |
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Lightningfractal said: Scientologists can choke on their own vomit.
Yes, it is possible for them to choke on their own vomit..... much like Jimi Hendrix.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6457517 - 01/14/07 03:44 AM (17 years, 19 days ago) |
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had to bump it again.......
I just cant wait to hear all about the mountain of knowledge you have about the beliefs, practices and "techniques" of Scientology....!!!
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Sinbad
Living TheMoment


Registered: 12/23/04
Posts: 2,571
Loc: Under The Bodhi Tree
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6457633 - 01/14/07 05:38 AM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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You seem very defensive about Scientology. Are you Tom Cruise? Or have you simply been brainwashed through a Scientology schooling program?
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6459235 - 01/14/07 04:15 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Would you mind explaining what, in the Scientologists view, constitutes the 'soul', or the essence of self? Scientology makes it very clear that they are a religion and that they provide methods to empower the individual who chooses Scientology. They also make it clear that they are not fatalists, they don't believe the human animal is the true individual, but that you and I are somehow everlasting. Shit, don't take my word for it, read the following which I took straight out of the final sequence of the Scientology Orientation Video:
"In this brief moment, we have our temporary chance for handling and continuing life. Clouds loom over this culture and planet. In this short interval, in this one place, we have our freedom before us. We can arise above the decay; the final flash that will inevitably extinguish this planet. It is not our mission to save it. It is our mission to free you. You are an immortal being. Your life will not halt because this planet halts. You can go on."
So...where do we "go on"? In what form? What constitutes my "immortal being"?
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Viveka]
#6459245 - 01/14/07 04:19 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Scientology is a religion for those who can afford it. Plain and simple. Its no different from any other "legitimate" religion except for the fact that it costs more.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Sinbad]
#6459451 - 01/14/07 05:32 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Sinbad said: You seem very defensive about Scientology. Are you Tom Cruise? Or have you simply been brainwashed through a Scientology schooling program?
are those my only two choices? seems like a "do you still beat your wife" type of question. Let me ask you this sinbad: If you heard someone talking about mushrooms, and talking about how they make you impotent, can cause brain cancer, and cause gingivitis.... would you attempt to "Defend" mushrooms against that persons ignorance and set the record straight, and atleast be a retarding force against the spread of false and often damaging information?
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
Posts: 15,427
Last seen: 6 years, 8 months
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Viveka]
#6459495 - 01/14/07 05:43 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Viveka said: Would you mind explaining what, in the Scientologists view, constitutes the 'soul', or the essence of self? Scientology makes it very clear that they are a religion and that they provide methods to empower the individual who chooses Scientology. They also make it clear that they are not fatalists, they don't believe the human animal is the true individual, but that you and I are somehow everlasting. Shit, don't take my word for it, read the following which I took straight out of the final sequence of the Scientology Orientation Video:
"In this brief moment, we have our temporary chance for handling and continuing life. Clouds loom over this culture and planet. In this short interval, in this one place, we have our freedom before us. We can arise above the decay; the final flash that will inevitably extinguish this planet. It is not our mission to save it. It is our mission to free you. You are an immortal being. Your life will not halt because this planet halts. You can go on."
So...where do we "go on"? In what form? What constitutes my "immortal being"?
well.... it is the same concept as the widespread concept of a "soul". The only difference is that they call it something different, as well as delve into more particular characterization of the soul.... They believe that you are a soul, and you dont "have a soul". They believe that your soul is pure energy, and therefor cannot be destroyed and that a soul can enter into anything it wishes. They look at the body much like we would look at a car, it is a vehicle.... but the human body isnt the only possible vessel or vehicle.
Thanks for actually asking a serious question instead of making flagrant, unfounded accusations. I hope that answered it for you, if not, tell me and I will try to explain it to my best ability.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6459542 - 01/14/07 05:59 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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It's just another mindless religion. Scientology, Christianity, Islam; it's all rubbish anyways.
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Viveka
refutation bias


Registered: 10/21/02
Posts: 4,061
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: SneezingPenis]
#6459672 - 01/14/07 06:27 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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By "particular characterization" of the soul are you refering to body thetans? What of the whole thetan thing anyway? Is that just part of the science fiction element of Scientology that should be ignored entirely by those looking to understand the practical worth of the religion and its practices or is the body thetan thing an integral part of the whole auditing process? My understanding is that it was and if it is, don't you think it shines a pretty unfavorable light on the whole affair?
Another red flag about the paragraph I quoted above is that it seems designed to address and allay prospective members fears of the unknown, or to provide an escape from the concept of their own annihilation. Not only is that dishonest but it perpetuates an even bigger problem, ego identificatiion. It's telling people YOU are this concrete identity and what you understand to be YOU from a human perspective is this important everlasting thing, so much so that you will continue to thrive when the planet is scorched, so long as you join Scientology. It's no different than the priest who says, accept Jesus and you'll ride his coattails to everlasting paradise, or the fatwah that declares, kill this infidel and you'll enjoy 69 virgins to the end of time. The essential similarity is that neither the priest, the cleric, nor L. Ron Hubbard have any idea what happens to the individual upon death. So why not drop the whole "spiritual" element and just present Scientology as something to improve human experience? The answer(s) to that question is what puts the whole affair in question.
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Viveka]
#6459794 - 01/14/07 06:50 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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Viveka said: By "particular characterization" of the soul are you refering to body thetans? What of the whole thetan thing anyway? Is that just part of the science fiction element of Scientology that should be ignored entirely by those looking to understand the practical worth of the religion and its practices or is the body thetan thing an integral part of the whole auditing process? My understanding is that it was and if it is, don't you think it shines a pretty unfavorable light on the whole affair?
Frankly, I have never heard the term "body thetans". It could exist, but in all the books I have read, it was never mentioned. But the term "Thetan is just another word for "soul".
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Another red flag about the paragraph I quoted above is that it seems designed to address and allay prospective members fears of the unknown, or to provide an escape from the concept of their own annihilation. Not only is that dishonest but it perpetuates an even bigger problem, ego identificatiion. It's telling people YOU are this concrete identity and what you understand to be YOU from a human perspective is this important everlasting thing, so much so that you will continue to thrive when the planet is scorched, so long as you join Scientology. It's no different than the priest who says, accept Jesus and you'll ride his coattails to everlasting paradise, or the fatwah that declares, kill this infidel and you'll enjoy 69 virgins to the end of time. The essential similarity is that neither the priest, the cleric, nor L. Ron Hubbard have any idea what happens to the individual upon death. So why not drop the whole "spiritual" element and just present Scientology as something to improve human experience? The answer(s) to that question is what puts the whole affair in question.
Well, I partially agree with you here. It is a promise of "afterlife", just like any other religion.... but they do have processes, which are active participations designed for personal cognition. It isnt ritualistic, nor is it something as passive as prayer, but rather "excercises".
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CUBErt
Connoisseur ofHallucination


Registered: 08/24/05
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Loc: Southern CA
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: Psilocybeingzz]
#6460247 - 01/14/07 08:28 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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There's alot of controversy and rumor surrounding L. Ron, but isn't it pretty well established that he was a heavy drug user, and we are talking cocaine/heroin- things that can be spiritually detrimental as opposed to LSD
-------------------- -CUBErt
 
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SneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!

Registered: 01/15/05
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Re: Talking with scientologists about drugs. [Re: CUBErt]
#6460406 - 01/14/07 09:20 PM (17 years, 18 days ago) |
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not to my knowledge, all i have heard regarding L. Ron's drug use was rumours that he was taking amphetamines.... but as for it being well established.... i mean, its someones word against a dead man..... but people will still believe what they wish, as long as it allows them to not have to re-evaluate their stance on the matter.
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