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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 20 days
Re: The May 1st March. [Re: geokills]
    #5580456 - 05/02/06 06:00 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Amnesty for current immigrants: They are here, they are working, and our economy has been flexible enough to assimilate them into it. To suddenly remove millions of immigrants from our working economy would cause serious economic and social tremors in the near term. The only practical thing to do, is to let them stay, work, tax them, and the system goes on as it has for the past many years, without any disruption or rearrangement necessary.




This is the one that I have issues with. By giving amnesty to all current ILLEGAL immigrants, we are screwing over every single LEGAL immigrant. We also reward all the people that smuggle illegals into the country. I don't agree that letting the squaters stay is the only practical thing to do. Deport them and increase the quotas allowing more legal immigrants in to fill the void. Reward the people that are following the rules while maintaining the status quo with legal immigrant workers.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: The May 1st March. [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5581925 - 05/02/06 04:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
Not in all cases. Farm laborers do not have to be paid minimum wage. Immigrants or citizens.




This is the entirety of your post, which I called bullshit on. First you give a link I have to weed through but find relevant portions. Then you give another link that is to a more concise portion of the original link. Thanks. I wish I had seen that first as opposed to the legalese I stopped at and had to interpret. It also supports my interpretation. Which is that your statement above is bullshit, that most of the exemptions are for minor family members. To quote from your link.
Quote:


"Virtually all employees engaged in agriculture are covered by the Act in that they produce goods for interstate commerce. There are, however, some exemptions which exempt certain employees from the minimum wage provisions, the overtime pay provisions, or both.

Employees who are employed in agriculture as that term is defined in the Act are exempt from the overtime pay provisions. They do not have to be paid time and one half their regular rates of pay for hours worked in excess of forty per week.

Agriculture does not include work performed on a farm which is not incidental to or in conjunction with such farmer's farming operation. It also does not include operations performed off a farm if performed by employees employed by someone other than the farmer whose agricultural products are being worked on.

Any employer in agriculture who did not utilize more than 500 "man days" of agricultural labor in any calendar quarter of the preceding calendar year is exempt from the minimum wage and overtime pay provisions of the FLSA for the current calendar year. A "man day" is defined as any day during which an employee performs agricultural work for at least one hour.

Additional exemptions from the minimum wage and overtime provisions of the Act for agricultural employees apply to the following:

* Agricultural employees who are immediate family members of their employer
* Those principally engaged on the range in the production of livestock
* Local hand harvest laborers who:commute daily from their permanent residence, are paid on a piece rate basis in traditionally piece-rated occupations, and were engaged in agriculture less than thirteen weeks during the preceeding calendar year
* Non-local minors, 16 years of age or under, who are hand harvesters, paid on a piece rate basis in traditionally piece-rated occupations, employed on the same farm as their parent, and paid the same piece rate as those over 16."




Particularly note the bolded phrase above, "Virtually all, from YOUR link. Now look at your statement. "Farm laborers do not have to be paid minimum wage." Now if you had said some farm laborers don't have to be paid minimum wage, I would not have called bullshit, because I was well aware of the family member exemption. But that is not what you said. What you said was bullshit. Pwned. Hoist by your own petard, as it were.


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OfflinegeokillsA
∙∙∙∙☼ º¿° ☼∙∙∙∙
Male User Gallery

Registered: 05/08/01
Posts: 23,417
Loc: city of angels Flag
Last seen: 9 hours, 53 minutes
Re: The May 1st March. [Re: Seuss]
    #5581960 - 05/02/06 04:12 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:

By giving amnesty to all current ILLEGAL immigrants, we are screwing over every single LEGAL immigrant.  We also reward all the people that smuggle illegals into the country.  I don't agree that letting the squaters stay is the only practical thing to do.  Deport them and increase the quotas allowing more legal immigrants in to fill the void.  Reward the people that are following the rules while maintaining the status quo with legal immigrant workers.


In efforts to clarify my position, I do not feel that letting the squaters stay is the only practical thing to do (poor choice of words on my part), rather that it is seemingly the most practical, now that we are where we are.  I do not condone people immigrating into our country illegally, but I also do not condone wasting our resources in a vain attempt to reverse history.  Maybe we can get away with deporting millions of people, but in my opinion the cost (both social and economic) would far outway the benefit of good principle.  It's a terribly difficult concession to endorse, and not one I am happy about considering how strongly I feel about morals and ethics; but I'd rather see our economy continue undisturbed, while simultaneously increasing revenue in the way of taxes, than try to take retroactive and costly steps in efforts to "undo" a situation that never should have transpired in the first place. 

You have definitely given me something more to think about however, as I was admittedly not even considering the implications to those who have taken and are taking the legal pathway towards US citizenship.  A very valid concern indeed.

.. But, with a head full of acid making itself known to me, I must respectfully take my leave. :grin:

:toomuchacid:


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··∙   long live the shroomery  ∙··
...π╥ ╥π...


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OfflineAaronEvil
The GuitarVillain
Male

Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
Re: The May 1st March. [Re: geokills]
    #5582257 - 05/02/06 05:43 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I dont think our economy would suffer at all.


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There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.


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OfflineEkstaza
stranger than most
 User Gallery

Registered: 04/10/03
Posts: 4,324
Loc: Around the corner
Last seen: 9 months, 23 days
Re: The May 1st March. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5583116 - 05/02/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:

Quote:


* Agricultural employees who are immediate family members of their employer
* Those principally engaged on the range in the production of livestock
* Local hand harvest laborers who:commute daily from their permanent residence, are paid on a piece rate basis in traditionally piece-rated occupations, and were engaged in agriculture less than thirteen weeks during the preceeding calendar year
* Non-local minors, 16 years of age or under, who are hand harvesters, paid on a piece rate basis in traditionally piece-rated occupations, employed on the same farm as their parent, and paid the same piece rate as those over 16."





Particularly note the bolded phrase above, "Virtually all, from YOUR link. Now look at your statement. "Farm laborers do not have to be paid minimum wage." Now if you had said some farm laborers don't have to be paid minimum wage, I would not have called bullshit, because I was well aware of the family member exemption. But that is not what you said. What you said was bullshit. Pwned. Hoist by your own petard, as it were.



Agreed, I should have said some, however, the way the law is writen, farmers can manipulate it to include most.

Note the bolded section of the text. That does not pertain to family members.


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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