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madbovinity
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 2
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Too much water during steaming?...
#5564200 - 04/27/06 07:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Hey all; I just finished sterilizing my jars via steaming in two large pots on the stove for about an hour-and-a-bit. Some of the jars' substrate looks a damp at the bottom (that is, more clotted together than up top), and in a couple jars, the whole jar-full of substrate is totally soaked through, it would seem. I did cover the jars with aluminum foil, but water apparently still got in... The receipe I used was a 2:1:1 ratio of vermiculite to water to brown flour. Questions: a) is the excess water going to have a huge impact on mycellium growth? b) should i restart? c) is it possible (or advisable) to sterilize jars using an oven instead of steaming, given the absense of a pressure cooker? d)is there any way of removing water from the jars without spoiling their sterile state?
any other suggestions would be much appreciated as well; thanks!
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
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Re: Too much water during steaming?... [Re: madbovinity]
#5564294 - 04/27/06 07:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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6 jars on high for 45 min then medium after 45 min works with a cloth at the bottom. the clumping together is probably because you packed it in the jars too dense. if you pack it in loosley it lets air get through and helps colonization, also it doesnt clump as much together. you're using half pints though, right?
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Too much water during steaming?... [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
#5564338 - 04/27/06 08:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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a) yes and no. depends how bad it is. ive seen jars that got so water logged the brf goo'ed up into a big grey mass near the top, the jar weighed twice as much as when it went in... were shot up for the hell of it anyway and it took some time before the "goo" was penetrated, but when it was observed the fluffiest whitest healthiest growth ive ever seen. the gooey jars took longer to start yet finished at the same time as normal ones.
b) depends again on how bad they are. if its just SOME jars then id say go for it, you'll see what i mean and be able to compare the f'd up ones to the good ones for yourself. this is totally against conventional wisdom though, folks place a lot of emphasis on the correct moisture content, your mileage may vary as will the advice you're going to get. being that it happened in the bottom of your jars though, i'd be more inclined to start over, because things slow down greatly at the bottom of the jar and you don't really want the extra obsticles to overcome there. if its all of them and you don't care to take risks, start over.
c) possible? sure. advisable? nope. you'll end up with the opposite problem: dry jars. just wrap that foil on tighter next time and boiling is a-o-k. keep the water level in your pot low. no more than 1/3rd the way up the jars. even less is ok. bunch up the foil towards the lid so its not hanging down in the water.
d) not really. the dry verm will absorb some of it over time, as will the dryer parts... over time they'll head towards an equilibrium where its more balanced out. but not by much. leaving the holes open and keeping incubation temps up at 85 or so causes the tiniest bit of evaporation but not enough to effect major change.
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acidbuba
Stranger

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 125
Last seen: 16 years, 6 months
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Re: Too much water during steaming?... [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
#5564372 - 04/27/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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if your on a budget start over from the beginning with your cakes. if not for a bit more $$ you can get a pressure cooker to sterilize them and start with casings this tek worked great for me http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/26177. what tek are you using? make sure you use the wide mouth 1/2pint jars because they colonize faster (i found out the hard way). make sure your holes you put in the lids are only big enough for the syringe needle and make no more then 4 holes per lid. lastly try two pieces of tin foil on each jar...
don't worry you'll get the hang of it unless you're a tard or something
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madbovinity
Stranger
Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 2
Last seen: 17 years, 6 months
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Re: Too much water during steaming?... [Re: acidbuba]
#5564526 - 04/27/06 08:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Alrighty; thanks, guys. I think that, despite my low budget, I'll shoot most of them up, and forego the jars that appear hopelessly logged. Most of my jars are quarter-pints, however, save 4 or 5 half-pints. I've often heard it suggested that half-pints are better (as mentioned above), as well as vice versa.... what gives? One other thing: when you sterilize the jars via steaming method in a metal pot on a stove (yeah, go figure...), do you find that your jars crack from the heat? If so, how do you prevent such a little mishap?
thanks again, matty
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creamcorn
mad scientist


Registered: 03/13/06
Posts: 2,962
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Re: Too much water during steaming?... [Re: madbovinity]
#5564613 - 04/27/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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half pints are ideal. they give you a good colonization time versus final output ratio... quater pints will go faster, but give you less in the end. pints can be made to work but take very long to colonize, if pulled off successfully will give you a little more. would stick with the half pinters though... im guessing the quarter pints aren't very tall either (haven't worked with them myself to know) - maybe part of the reason water splashed in.
cracks are bad news. don't use a cracked jar. first and foremost make sure you have an old rag/towel/washcloth on the bottom of your pot. it coushions them and prevents direct heat transfer into the jar. cracking also happens from changing temps too fast. keep it at a slow rolling boil, this way water doesn't splash around (might have something to do with your original problem there, hint hint), and they won't clink together. don't put a cold jar in hot water. don't take a hot jar out! best bet is to load all jars in cool water. use low heat and slowly come to your boil. start counting time when the boil starts. (bit over 60 mins works great imo, something like 75 is plenty.) let jars cool in pot, with lid still on for several hours, preferably overnight. don't peek once you've turned the heat off... doing so introduces a bunch of room temp air into there, risk cracking them, and you risk the jars suddenly sucking in potentially contaminated air. be patient and let 'em cool in the pot. you got weeks to wait before you got shrooms anyway, a few hours or overnight here won't hurt i promise!
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