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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: King and King [Re: Icelander]
    #5572202 - 04/29/06 10:19 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I really hope you don't have kids Randall. Do you really want to be like "most parents". Sigh. :frown:




Am I not "progressive" enough for you?  I don't care if I am like most parents or not.  I don't want my kids exposed to politically correct garbage.  :shrug:

If you want to fill your kid's head with this crap and turn them into a little robotic liberal then go ahead.  But don't do it to my kids and don't do it on my dime.  Elementary school is not the place for fairy tales, examinations of sexual roles, stories about heterosexuality, stories about homosexuality, politically charged topics, etc..  Teach my kid to read, write, and do math but don't attempt to indoctrinate his head with pet beliefs and theories.


Edited by RandalFlagg (04/29/06 10:48 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5572490 - 04/29/06 11:38 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I'm afraid you are, then, totally blind to the indoctrination that we all got in school. Fairs fair dude, and if you don't consider that our schools turn out robots by the score then you are one.

And yes, IMO,( and only since you asked) it wouldn't hurt you to open up your mind and let go just a wee little bit. :grin: It's not like homosexual activity is unnatural and not found in many mammals. I find it so odd that people care about such, IMO, unimportant stuff. It seems so trivial to me. I think it's most likely fear based and homophobic. No ones going to make anyone become homosexual or damage them by just exposing them to the realities that exist and have always been part of the human experience.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: King and King [Re: Icelander]
    #5573372 - 04/30/06 07:19 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm afraid you are, then, totally blind to the indoctrination that we all got in school.




So we should fight this perceived indoctrination with indoctrination of a different stripe?  I say hell no.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Fairs fair dude, and if you don't consider that our schools turn out robots by the score then you are one.




I used to buy that idea but now I don't.  School didn't make me a robot.  I have my own brain and I use it.  I slept in class and smoked weed all through high school so I definately wasn't "broken into submission" and "made into a robot".

I find it absolutely preposterous that in order to stop schools from turning out "robots" that we should expose very young children to topics that they cannot possibly understand and that they are not ready for.

Quote:

Icelander said:
And yes, IMO,( and only since you asked) it wouldn't hurt you to open up your mind and let go just a wee little bit. :grin: It's not like homosexual activity is unnatural and not found in many mammals.

I find it so odd that people care about such, IMO, unimportant stuff. It seems so trivial to me. I think it's most likely fear based and homophobic.





I have already stated quite clearly that I do not have a problem with homosexuality.  I have known gay people.  I even knew somebody who has gotten a sex change.  Does this stuff bother me?  No.  If two dudes are in love, do I care?  No.  If two women want to live together and dyke it out, do I care?  No.  If two gay people want to get married, do I care?  No.

Seriously, if someone wants to be gay then I really don't care.

Quote:

Icelander said:
No ones going to make anyone become homosexual or damage them by just exposing them to the realities that exist and have always been part of the human experience.




It's not the homosexual part that bothers me...it's the politically charged part.  The abnormality of homosexuality makes it politically charged.

I despise ideology and belief systems.  I absolutely do not want my children being exposed to them.  I am not going to expose my children to religion and I will definately not expose them to the ideology of Leftism.  Hell, I won't even expose them to my own personal opinions until they are older.  Children are too young to understand and wade through such controversial and complex stuff.  It is irresponsible and unseemly to try to fill their impressionable heads with this stuff.  Let them have their innocense.  When they get older they can tackle political, religious, and ideological topics.


Edited by RandalFlagg (04/30/06 07:22 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5574380 - 04/30/06 03:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

So we should fight this perceived indoctrination with indoctrination of a different stripe? I say hell no.

Indoctrination? It's just a story about life and people and how they choose to live it.

I used to buy that idea but now I don't. School didn't make me a robot. I have my own brain and I use it. I slept in class and smoked weed all through high school so I definitely wasn't "broken into submission" and "made into a robot".

I find it absolutely preposterous that in order to stop schools from turning out "robots" that we should expose very young children to topics that they cannot possibly understand and that they are not ready for.


A lot of indoctrination takes place long before you start smoking pot. The whole culture including parents, schools, church, etc. is one long indoctrination.

I happen to live with a 5 year old and a 13 year old and you don't know what your talking about. Even the 5 year old can understand that subject matter to some extent. The 13 year old is on to more difficult problems than whether some people are gay and some aren't.

The abnormality of homosexuality makes it politically charged.

I need to repeat that there is nothing abnormal about homosexuality except to those who are homophobic. It's perfectly natural for a percentage of the human population.

Hell, I won't even expose them to my own personal opinions until they are older.

You have no idea what you're talking about. You obviously have not lived with children for any length of time as a guardian or parent. You cannot help but expose your children to everything you are if you interact with them at all. Children are way more intelligent then you give them credit for. They will know exactly how you feel and believe.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: King and King [Re: Icelander]
    #5574685 - 04/30/06 05:00 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
A lot of indoctrination takes place long before you start smoking pot. The whole culture including parents, schools, church, etc. is one long indoctrination.




I was raised a Christian.  I didn't end up being a Christian.  :shrug:  I was raised in a conservative area.  I didn't end up being conservative.  :shrug: 

Quote:

Icelander said:
I happen to live with a 5 year old and a 13 year old and you don't know what your talking about. Even the 5 year old can understand that subject matter to some extent. The 13 year old is on to more difficult problems than whether some people are gay and some aren't.




The 13 year old sounds definately old enough to tackle such subjects.  The 5 year old though...?  I doubt it.  And, these subjects are ones that individual parents should explain to their children.  Schools have no business teaching stuff like this.

Quote:

Icelander said:
I need to repeat that there is nothing abnormal about homosexuality except to those who are homophobic. It's perfectly natural for a percentage of the human population.




Given that it is practised by a very small minority of human beings makes it not normal, i.e. abnormal.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Children are way more intelligent then you give them credit for. They will know exactly how you feel and believe.




When it becomes apparent that they are ready to tackle such subjects then I will be more than happy to converse with them about it.  Would I force these subjects upon them however?  No.  Would I demand that these subjects be taught in school and that other people's children be exposed to it (when maybe they weren't ready for it or their parents wouldn't approve)?  Hell no.

Quote:

Icelander said:
Indoctrination? It's just a story about life and people and how they choose to live it.




And this story is one that deals with a subject that seven year olds have no business tackling. 

It is obvious that you and I disagree on this basic premise, so let me ask you this:  Will you defy my will and the will of MANY other parents to teach this stuff to our kids?  What if I demanded to teach stuff to your kids that you didn't want?  Would I have the right to do that?  Should my children be forced to be exposed to this stuff just because you (and what I surmise to be a very small minority of parents) want it?


Edited by RandalFlagg (04/30/06 05:02 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5575590 - 04/30/06 10:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

I didn't end up being conservative

No offense, but you seem quite conservative to me.

Given that it is practised by a very small minority of human beings makes it not normal, i.e. abnormal.

You need to check the Kinsey Report. Something like 10-15%. That's a pretty solid chunk of the population.

And this story is one that deals with a subject that seven year olds have no business tackling.

Thats your opinion and the opinion of someone who has never raised a child. But you're entitled to it. Maybe you should consider home schooling. :grin:



You can do what you want. But I was forced to learn all kinds of things I don't agree with and the children who live with me are taught all kinds of things I don't agree with. So the choice is let them learn some things you don't agree with or home school. And why should my kids be exposed to shit just because the majority wants it. Are you saying just because they're a majority they're right? That has almost never been true IMO.

But I'm radical, that's why I post on a forum that discusses Magick Mushrooms, it's not normal, or in the majority but what you gonna do? And if you don't talk to your kids about this stuff then they believe everything the DARE people say. The normal majority.

But you get to have your views and I don't want to change them. I'm just here for the debate.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
Re: King and King [Re: Icelander]
    #5575885 - 04/30/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
No offense, but you seem quite conservative to me.


 

Well, let's see:

1.  I hate religious nutcases (Christian, Islamic, etc..)
2.  I hate it when religious nutcases try to push their will upon the general populace.
3.  I don't like Bush at all.
4.  I support drug legalization.
5.  I have no problem with gay people and I find homophobia idiotic.

I'm so socially conservative aren't I?  :rolleyes:

Admittedly, when it comes to governmental fiscal matters I am conservative.  But when it comes to social matters I despise both liberal and conservative viewpoints.

Quote:

Icelander said:
And why should my kids be exposed to shit just because the majority wants it. Are you saying just because they're a majority they're right?




NO!  You are not listening to me.  Seven year old children should not be exposed to shit like this at all.  If some teacher brought in a religious pamphlet that detailed how heterosexuality was the only acceptable method for a loving relationship I would be just as pissed.

Just because the majority might be wrong doesn't automatically mean that the minority is right.

Quote:

Icelander said:
And if you don't talk to your kids about this stuff then they believe everything the DARE people say.




I will make the decision when to talk to my children about drugs, sex, homosexuality, religion, etc..  The public school system and the people working in it have no business filling my prospective kid's (or anybody elses kid's) head with stuff like this.  That is what infuriates me about this; a teacher touched upon a subject that should be left to parents.


Edited by RandalFlagg (04/30/06 11:51 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male

Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5576565 - 05/01/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Maybe you seem so conservative to me because I'm so radical. And I do know that you're liberal when it comes to talking openly about shitting yourself. :grin: I really don't know you well and am judging from my limited interaction with you. Like I said, no offense.

OK, your imaginary 7 year old is not ready for it. But mine is. I get it. Like I said, home schooling is the way to go.

Like you said we most likely have differening views on most everything including child rearing and that makes the world go round. I really don't care what you do with your kids (if you have them). Like I said, I'm just here for the debate.

I would never put my own children into the public school system and if I had children of my own (my sperm) I wouldn't raise them in Amerika.

In my opinion only one tenth of one percent are qualified to raise healthy children. So don't ever put me in charge of who gets to have kids. :grin: Peace out. :mushroom2:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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