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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
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King and King
    #5563807 - 04/27/06 05:18 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060427/us_nm/rights_gays_massachusetts_dc

Clear evidence of the subtle indoctrination of youth occurring in our school systems!  :rolleyes:

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OfflinePhred
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5563828 - 04/27/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Government schools. Gotta love 'em.

A substantial percentage of high school graduates can't puzzle out a credit card statement or figure out the true gas mileage of their vehicles, but seven year olds get introduced to the gay lifestyle before they are taught about the birds and the bees.





Phred


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: Phred]
    #5563860 - 04/27/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Don't "regular" fairy tales indoctrinate them into the heterosexual lifestyle? Why aren't gay parents allowed to sue schools for reading the children "Cinderella," or "Snow White," since these books promote a different lifestyle from the one their kids see at home?

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5563957 - 04/27/06 06:13 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

That story should not have been read to seven year olds in a public school. Period.

Note that I'm not a homophobe. If you want to be gay...I don't give a shit. But, it is irresponsible and innapropriate to introduce topics that are very controversial to such young children. They are too young to even fathom what is going on with stuff like this. However, with older children in high school I see no problem with homosexuality being discussed in "Current Affairs" type classes.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5563962 - 04/27/06 06:15 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

"It was read during a lesson on different types of weddings."

:rolleyes:


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5563969 - 04/27/06 06:17 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Perhaps part of the reason that it remains controversial for any two people to fall in love & want to be together is because we are unwilling to discuss it openly with young children?

I'm not talking about showing them graphic photos of gay (or hetero) sex acts, but about the basic idea that love is love...whatever faces and sex organs it wears. If it is OK to read fairy tales which describe hetero love affairs in romantic detail, then it should be OK to read stories about "King and King."

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5564003 - 04/27/06 06:29 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

there's no reason to be teaching kids about any kind of marriange, gay or straight, in public schools.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5564011 - 04/27/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
If it is OK to read fairy tales which describe hetero love affairs in romantic detail, then it should be OK to read stories about "King and King."




Not around my kids (if I ever have any). I have a feeling that most parents would feel the same way.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5564308 - 04/27/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

So you would object to a teacher reading standard hetero fairy tales, such as "Sleeping Beauty," "Cinderella," "Snow White," etc...?

Or are you saying that is OK, and not indoctrination, but that children's stories featuring a non-hetero relationship are unacceptable?

For the sake of the next generation of kids, I sincerely hope that most parents do not feel as you do. :sad:

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: wilshire]
    #5564324 - 04/27/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

wilshire said:
there's no reason to be teaching kids about any kind of marriange, gay or straight, in public schools.




There is a reason, though not a noble one, and that is because public schools are one of the primary agents of socialization. (After TV, of course, considering that kids spend more time in front of the boob tube than they do in a school desk.)

My point is, if we allow our children to be taught all about hetero marriage, isn't it promoting discrimination to forbid stories about gay relationships? Isn't it time to get past this 1950's-style bullshit?

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OfflineThe_Red_Crayon
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5564505 - 04/27/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

It just doesnt belong in school,I just honestly cant see a reasonable argument for it, most children have male and female parents and its a social norm. Its not a matter of prejudice its a matter of inconvenience. Should muslims in schools be able to recite prayers or pray to mecca during class? Should Hindu students be able to do the things they do.

The point im trying to make is its not about descrimination its about Convenience.

I dont see how political correctness being taught in school has any merit for children in elementary school. Its bad enough that our government schools teach revisionist history why make it worse with political correctness.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5565978 - 04/28/06 03:58 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
So you would object to a teacher reading standard hetero fairy tales, such as "Sleeping Beauty," "Cinderella," "Snow White," etc...?





I don't think students should be learning fairy tales in school. They should be learning things of substance. But, would I have a problem with them hearing a hetero-ish fairy tale? No. Heterosexuality is the norm. Homosexuality isn't.

Quote:

Veritas said:
Or are you saying that is OK, and not indoctrination, but that children's stories featuring a non-hetero relationship are unacceptable?




Exposing children to such controversial stuff is not appropriate. If I have kids I am not going to expose them to pro-homo stuff when they are young and I also am not going to expose them to religion when they are young. Young minds cannot fathom these intricate and complicated subjects. I say wait until they are older.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5565984 - 04/28/06 04:00 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
My point is, if we allow our children to be taught all about hetero marriage, isn't it promoting discrimination to forbid stories about gay relationships? Isn't it time to get past this 1950's-style bullshit?




I'll say it one more time; touchy subjects like this should be left to the parents to teach. Stuff like this has no place in public schools.

The subject of homosexuality and the legal matters associated with it are hot topics in the political mainstream right now. It is disgusting to attempt to indoctrinate children or bring them into the mix. Let adults argue about this stuff and let kids keep their innocense.

Edited by RandalFlagg (04/28/06 04:03 AM)

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5566365 - 04/28/06 09:22 AM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Well at least Massachusetts has made same sex marraige legal (for now).  So to teach the kids that there at least has a tie in.

But 7 year olds?  Whose idea was that, and fire them. 

I give the gays and lesbians credit for fighting and mostly winning their political battle and for forcing people to show "political correctness".  The problem is they want it all in terms of marriage and the benefits that brings.  Do they deserve that? 

I guess if the illegals can have under the table jobs AND welfare AND day care centers paid for with my tax dollars and not have to pay any Federal or state taxes then it should be ok for gay people who are at least citizens and pay taxes to get married and use their "partners" (husband? wife?) health care benefits from work and survivor benefits etc.  What the heck.

Teach the children about two men living together and getting married?  What the heck.  Why not bring in a couple of recently married gays to the second grade class so they can talk about what their marriage is like and how much they love each other?  :smirk:

I personally am so glad that I went to elementary school in a more innocent time, being taught nice innocent subjects.  No guns, no knives, but if someone pissed you off it was more than OK to beat the crap out of them on school grounds and nothing was done!


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5566795 - 04/28/06 12:04 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

OK, if "touchy" subjects should be left to parents, then the schools have no business including DARE, sex ed., planned parenting (the electronic baby dolls which kids have to carry around for an assignment), political science, evolution, history...

I guess that leaves just the three R's, hmmm?  :rolleyes:

Let's take just ONE of these "touchy" subjects: drug use.

Using illegal drugs is not the "norm," either.  The public schools in the U.S. are forcing kids to attend DARE training which provides one-sided and inaccurate information about drug effects.  They are allowed to demonize ALL illegal drugs, lie about the research into their effects, and to tell children to turn in their parents and friends and neighbors if they are using drugs.

My son was forced into a mandatory DARE class in 4th grade (required to progress to 5th grade), and he came home with pamphlets and a head full of misinformation and propaganda.  No one asked me if it was OK for him to take this class, and they made it a requirement (not an elective), so that kids could not advance without that class credit.

Shall I sue?

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5567969 - 04/28/06 06:47 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
OK, if "touchy" subjects should be left to parents, then the schools have no business including DARE, sex ed., planned parenting (the electronic baby dolls which kids have to carry around for an assignment), political science, evolution, history...




In my opinion DARE should not be in public schools.  Sex Ed. should be voluntary.  Planned parenthood should be voluntary.  Political science, evolution, and history are subjects for much older, knowledgeable, and mature students.


Quote:

Veritas said:
I guess that leaves just the three R's, hmmm?  :rolleyes:





Why can you not simply recognize that I and many other people WOULD NOT want our children being exposed to stuff like "King and King"?  If you want to read this stuff to your kids in your home...fine.  I don't care.  Just don't do it on my dime and with my kids. 

A public classroom full of seven year olds is no place to push political ideas and agendas.  Would I be pissed if this teacher brought a Bible into class?  Yes.  Would I be pissed if this teacher brought an Ayn Rand book into class?  Yes.  Would I be pissed if this teacher brought a Noam Chomsky book into class?  Yes.

Quote:

Veritas said:
My son was forced into a mandatory DARE class in 4th grade (required to progress to 5th grade), and he came home with pamphlets and a head full of misinformation and propaganda.  No one asked me if it was OK for him to take this class, and they made it a requirement (not an elective), so that kids could not advance without that class credit.




That was bullshit.  I would have pulled my kid out of that class.

Quote:

Veritas said:
Shall I sue?




I personally might consider it.

Edited by RandalFlagg (04/28/06 07:06 PM)

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5568373 - 04/28/06 08:35 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Political science, evolution, and history are subjects for much older, knowledgeable, and mature students.





*buzzer* Sorry, try again. My son was reading about slavery, "settlement" of America, evolution, politics, etc...in grade school. They teach these subjects at a much lower reading level, and with less complexity than they would in middle school/high school/college, but they still introduce these topics.

Many Christian parents have objected to their children being taught about evolution in our public schools, and pushed for creationism to be added to the science curriculum. Should they have their way? Should teachers have to get their permission before mentioning that humans evolved from primates, since this is a touchy subject with Creationists?

Fact is, homosexuality exists everywhere in nature. Humans want to deny it and call it immoral, or just pretend that it doesn't happen. This is bullshit, IMO. If our young children are going to read stories about slavery, white "settlers" killing the natives who were occupying our country, trumped up hetero fairy tales which spoil them for actual relationships, and watch cable TV which depicts every type of horror imaginable, then your "defense of innocence" argument is pretty worthless.

Quote:

A public classroom full of seven year olds is no place to push political ideas and agendas.




And yet teachers are allowed to push the "normative" ideas and agendas without any dispute from "normal" parents. (Or opinionated non-parents like you.)

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5568415 - 04/28/06 08:48 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Other than rithmatic sience and math oh yea thats rithmatic its all a buncha propaganda anyway. I mean think about any history book. Someone's jaded opinion about what happened when and why. Accurate accounts? No way. The tell the same story around the classroom as instructed that turns out to be something completely different in the span of 5 minutes and 20 students should tell you about the nonsense that is a history book.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: King and King [Re: Veritas]
    #5568682 - 04/28/06 09:51 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Political science, evolution, and history are subjects for much older, knowledgeable, and mature students.





*buzzer*  Sorry, try again.  My son was reading about slavery, "settlement" of America, evolution, politics, etc...in grade school. 




Has he been exposed to black and white simplifications of these topics?  I guarantee you that he doesn't have the acumen to understand the intricate complexities of such topics.       

Quote:

Veritas said:
Many Christian parents have objected to their children being taught about evolution in our public schools, and pushed for creationism to be added to the science curriculum.  Should they have their way? 




No.  Just like liberals who have bleeding hearts should not have their way.

Quote:

Veritas said:
Should teachers have to get their permission before mentioning that humans evolved from primates, since this is a touchy subject with Creationists? 




They shouldn't be discussing such things with 7 year olds.  :shrug:

Quote:

Veritas said:
Fact is, homosexuality exists everywhere in nature.  Humans want to deny it and call it immoral, or just pretend that it doesn't happen.  This is bullshit, IMO. 




I don't have anything against homos.  :shrug:

Quote:

Veritas said:
and watch cable TV which depicts every type of horror imaginable, then your "defense of innocence" argument is pretty worthless.





I will cancel my cable the second I have kids.

Quote:

Veritas said:
And yet teachers are allowed to push the "normative" ideas and agendas without any dispute from "normal" parents. (Or opinionated non-parents like you.)




I'll admit it's a double standard.  I see no problem with normal stuff leaking into my child's education but I do see a problem with "abnormal" politically charged stuff leaking in.  It's a double standard and I don't fucking care.  That's how it is.  And most parents will agree with me.  :shrug:

If you want your kids to be educated in the ways of brainwashed Leftism.....go ahead.  Maybe you should homeschool your kids?  I have considered doing the same if I ever have any little rugrats.

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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: King and King [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5571333 - 04/29/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 10 months ago)

I'll admit it's a double standard. I see no problem with normal stuff leaking into my child's education but I do see a problem with "abnormal" politically charged stuff leaking in. It's a double standard and I don't fucking care. That's how it is. And most parents will agree with me.

I really hope you don't have kids Randall. Do you really want to be like "most parents". Sigh. :frown:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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