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Offlinekotik
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big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging)
    #5563621 - 04/27/06 04:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

notice the ? icon for this thread...

Obviously what's really going on is much less important than what can be proven / accepted by the public. So what are the scenarios? And does anyone have good arguments for / against big oil profits ( or profit margins, if you argue in defense of oil)?

personally, i don't see much change, if anything we will just start pretending like we're more "green," ignoring the problem for another 100 years and reduce our use of oil due to the high price.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: kotik]
    #5563869 - 04/27/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I am alarmed at the high oil prices myself. But, I have faith in the market. The second oil is no longer feasible as an energy source the nerds at the oil companies will come up with something else.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5563909 - 04/27/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Gas is 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela. :yinyang:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5563932 - 04/27/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Gas is not 12 cents a gallon in Venezuela


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5564110 - 04/27/06 07:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yes it is. at least according to CNN 3 days ago.


EDIT: I'm sorry, it was NBC... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12392794


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Edited by EquilibriuM (04/27/06 07:08 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564122 - 04/27/06 07:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No. It is not. They may be charging 12 cents at the pump but only an idiot would think that that is what it costs.

Here ya go. How much do most people pay to send their kids to school? Nothing, that's right, nothing. Is that what it costs? Nope, not by a long shot. Capisce?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5564143 - 04/27/06 07:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LOL your trying to save face.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564166 - 04/27/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

No. I'm trying to point out your cluelessness.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5564182 - 04/27/06 07:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Its OK man, I made a statement, you claimed it was false, I backed it up. Its OK to be wrong man. You don't have to call me an idiot or anything just because you were wrong...


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Invisibledownforpot
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564185 - 04/27/06 07:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The government is basically paying for price of gas in Venezuela, I think.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: downforpot]
    #5564202 - 04/27/06 07:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The government is producing it.


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564243 - 04/27/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And subsidizing it.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564244 - 04/27/06 07:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Governments don't produce anything except hot air.
For the logic impaired, if I have something and can sell it for $50 but choose to sell it for 50 cents, my choice has cost me $49.50. Now if my commune has no food but 50 pounds of pot and everybody in the commune smokes it all for free and there is no money left for munchies then our decision to smoke all the dope cost us the money to buy munchies, even though we were too stoned to know it. Are you catching on yet?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5564276 - 04/27/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I know its artificially low, just like ours is artificially high. That doesn't mean the price is not the price. LOL. Public schools are free. Gas costs 12 cents. Some people just don't know when to give up.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5564303 - 04/27/06 07:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Public schools are not free. Ask the people who pay for them. Gas is not 12 cents. Our gas prices are not artificially high. Europe pays the same to buy gas as we do but their price at the pump is almost double ours. Go figure.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5564309 - 04/27/06 07:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

something like 30% of our gas price is tax.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5566028 - 04/28/06 05:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

For the logic impaired, if I have something and can sell it for $50 but choose to sell it for 50 cents, my choice has cost me $49.50.




incorrect.  by that logic, since the grovery store COULD charge $10 per gallon of milk, but are only charging $4, they are losing $6 per gallon?  that kind of logic will run you in circles.  :blush:

i guess you need flexible logic to be right all the time tho  :cool:


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: kotik]
    #5567278 - 04/28/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The grocery store can't sell milk for $10 a gallon. But Chavez can sell his oil for a lot more than 12 cents. A lot more.

The price of a thing is not always its cost.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5567425 - 04/28/06 04:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"The price of a thing is not always its cost."

so what is the "cost" of 12 cent per gallon gasoline then? to have a bad leader? we're already half way there...


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: kotik]
    #5567692 - 04/28/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The cost is what you could have otherwise sold it for. Why is this so fucking difficult to understand?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5567746 - 04/28/06 05:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LOL the cost is how much you pay for it, not how much they could have sold it to you for.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5567757 - 04/28/06 05:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
The cost is what you could have otherwise sold it for. Why is this so fucking difficult to understand?




cost (k?st)
n.

1. An amount paid or required in payment for a purchase; a price.

v. tr.

1. To have as a price.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cost

The COST of something is simply whatever price is put on it. It seems to me that the cost of gasoline in Venezuela is $0.12.


OR

Perhaps you can write a nice letter to the folks that publish dictionaries and let them know that you've changed the meaning of the word "cost".


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Offlinekotik
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5567940 - 04/28/06 06:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

correct. when you fail to abide by the rules of the english language (for instance, using the correct words for the context, and knowing the definitions of those words), it makes it hard for me to "fucking understand."

I quoted you the first time because it sounded more like a Mantra than an intelligent statement. For example:
The _____ of something is not always its ________.
The downfall of something is not always its end.
The sight of something is not always what you can see.
The size of something is not always its volume.

Aside from metaphysics and quantum theory, none of these apply, since this is not MR&P. And since i prefer to stay on topic (profit VS profit margin) I didn't make much out of it.

perhaps you could explain it a little simpler to an idiot such as myself.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5567941 - 04/28/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Selectively quoting from a limited dictionary is beneath you. What is the "cost" of drilling for oil off the Santa Monica coast? Is it just how much you pay for the actually drilling? Or is it the cost in decreased quality of life for those who's view is ruined plus the risk of a spill?

Clueless. Look that up in dictionary.com


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5568012 - 04/28/06 07:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
LOL the cost is how much you pay for it, not how much they could have sold it to you for.




Do you not understand the concept of subsidization?


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5568238 - 04/28/06 08:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quit trying to put a spin on it. You were wrong and had to save face. You were proven wrong again and still you spin it in another direction.

The word "cost", as used in the context of EquilibriuM's post, was used to imply monetary value, period.

Try again


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5568256 - 04/28/06 08:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RandalFlagg said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
LOL the cost is how much you pay for it, not how much they could have sold it to you for.




Do you not understand the concept of subsidization?




Yes.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5568279 - 04/28/06 08:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ekstaza said:
Quit trying to put a spin on it. You were wrong and had to save face. You were proven wrong again and still you spin it in another direction.

The word "cost", as used in the context of EquilibriuM's post, was used to imply monetary value, period.

Try again




I don't do "face". Or spin. It's pretty fucking clear what I meant by cost isn't it? No "implying" involved.


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OfflineEkstaza
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5568382 - 04/28/06 08:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

PLain and simple

Q: What does it cost a Venezuelan to buy gasoline?
A: $0.12/gallon


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YOUR EXPERIENCE WITH ANY GIVEN DRUG ISN'T THE DEFINITIVE MEASURE OF THE DRUGS EFFECTS.


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InvisibleDrAbominable
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: Ekstaza]
    #5568746 - 04/28/06 10:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

From what I understand, Venezuela produces its own oil/gas, some of which the United States  buys(15% I believe).  So regardless of currency differences, it would make sense that even at 12 cents a gallon for gasoline, Venezuela is still seeing a profit. Considering of course refining, but with exports and the current rise in oil prices world wide, they still are seeing profits. Unfortunately not everyone!  But thats another topic.
 
    As far as the  current situation in the US, it's complete speculation used in favor of the Oil company's. There is no real decline in oil production.IMHO these spikes in oil prices will continue to grow from  here on in, to infinity and beyond!!!!! Any excuse will be used, or fabricated. We are at their mercy, until we take a stand and become  less dependent oil, Bush is not in favor of taxing Oil company's for their current record breaking profits, $49 Billion in one quarter. WOW. But would rather have them invest that money into "research" for alternate means of energy. And, he had the audacity to again bring up the drilling in Alaska.  These bastards should be taxed, that money should go into education, so that uneducated Americans can't  blame immigrants for stealing their jobs. :whatever:

But most of us will continue with our apathetic lives not doing shit about it, drowning our sub-conscious depression.

Peace


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: DrAbominable]
    #5568875 - 04/28/06 10:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Ok...I'm a little fucked up at the moment but I think the traders are the ones that are inching up futures prices....not the energy companies.


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OfflineDoctorJ
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: zappaisgod]
    #5569087 - 04/28/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
Governments don't produce anything except hot air.
For the logic impaired, if I have something and can sell it for $50 but choose to sell it for 50 cents, my choice has cost me $49.50. 




I disagree with your business ethics here. 

Prices should always go down as mankind becomes more technologically advanced.  Eventually, everything will be free.  Haven't you ever seen Star Trek:The Next Generation?  :lol:  free energy and matter generation!

People who keep the status quo are impeding progress.


Edited by DoctorJ (04/29/06 12:34 AM)


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InvisibleDrAbominable
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5569100 - 04/28/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

If so its minimum. It's the rule of Supply and Demand that hikes up prices. Normally there's a middle man, retailers, but with gs its called franchise, where the supplier all around is the oil company with a little bit going to Joe Schmo using the name, Mobil, Exxon, Texaco, etc etc... (All of which if I'm correct are ES SO). Although, traders do hike up the prices, there is always a reason for this. This current reason is a speculation of supply and demand. The traders along with investors, company execs, and white house politicians use these tall tales to make their pockets fat. I'm pretty buzzed so its getting difficult for me to focus.

Peas and Onions


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Offlinemonamine
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Re: big oil: profit vs profit margin (how to prove / disprove gouging) [Re: downforpot]
    #5570823 - 04/29/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
The government is basically paying for price of gas in Venezuela, I think.




A lot of people don't know this but Venezuela is actually a big oil producer.


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