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OfflineDoctorJ
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Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Gass Guzzlers
    #5561502 - 04/27/06 02:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This isn't a very popular opinion, but I believe that SUVs are inefficient, unsafe and all around badly designed vehicles. Their popularity is both a testament to human stupidity and disproof of the unconditional validity of free market capitalism.

As an owner of a compact car, SUVs make me feel unsafe on the road. I would hate to ever be in a crash with one.

Also, they pollute the air I breathe moreso than other cars.

My final complaint against the SUV is that it is dangerously inefficient, especially in our current energy crisis. SUV's cause increased demand for gas which forces me to pay more per gallon even though I don't own an SUV.

I seriously believe that oil supplies would go up and prices would go down if SUVs did not exist. Foreign relations would be better, as America wouldn't look as much like greedy pigs, consuming 20 million barrels a day while China, whose population is 5 times ours, consumes only 6.5 million.

If I had it my way, SUVs and large trucks would be prohibited by law unless they were being used to transport multiple passengers or heavy cargo.


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InvisibleAlex213
Stranger
Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 1,839
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5561611 - 04/27/06 03:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That's not going to go down very well Doctor. There's a lot of proud SUV owners on the board...


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OfflineFestivus
Resident Lurker
Male

Registered: 03/24/06
Posts: 142
Last seen: 15 years, 1 month
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Alex213]
    #5561629 - 04/27/06 03:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You should read "High and Mighty" it's a book about the dangers of SUV's/Trucks and the problems that they pose for the owners and the rest of society.

It's quite an enlightening read from a fairly competent expert. :smile:


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5561701 - 04/27/06 04:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think SUVs are gross, but then I mostly see them as a local problem.

British infrastructure is just not built for them. The worst use of SUVs in my experience is the school run. Parents get them 'to feel safe', but they often have to park on the pavement to allow traffic to pass, smashing it up (my council tax) and forcing buggies and wheelchairs into the road, blocking line of sight at crossing (usually near a school at a time when kids are coming or going), and choke up the air in town. And the drivers tend to have no bloody road sense at all, after all they don't need it because they are in their little tank. </rant>

BTW: I think stacking the blame on SUVs for all the worlds oil/environmental issues is fatuous, it singles out one of many inefficient energy users while clouding real arguments with class war.


Edited by psilomonkey (04/27/06 10:39 AM)


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OfflineEvesApple
civillydisobedient
Female

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 27
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5562330 - 04/27/06 10:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

DoctorJ said:
As an owner of a compact car, SUVs make me feel unsafe on the road.  I would hate to ever be in a crash with one.




Been there. Totaled my car at a measly 30 mph!  Knocked the other guys license plate off! Well, I suppose when you're T-boned you get the short stick no matter who hits you...but there went my dreams of owning a SmartCar. I'd have been a greasespot in a SmartCar.

And also on my bicycle. Why is it illegal to ride on the sidewalk?  :eek: (Thankfully I can still *walk* on the sidewalk, nyah nyah!)

What makes me laugh is the people who claim SUVs are necessary because they're too fat to fit in a regular car. Or maybe it makes me cry...so hard to tell the difference these days.


--------------------
Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream
It is not dying...It is not dying
Lay down all thought, surrender to the void
It is shining...It is shining
That you may see the meaning of within
It is being...It is being


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OfflineRonoS
DSYSB since '01
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Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5562372 - 04/27/06 10:47 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Speaking as someone that does own an SUV, I can assure you that the way gas prices are going, if I could get by just driving a smartcar I would....(even though they are gay as hell) But I live in Western Canada...The Rocky Mountains are 40 minutes away from me, and there is snow on the ground for most of the year. (That is not even taking into account how much camping I do)

The point being, that while I agree with you in the fact that many people who own SUVs do not need them (I.E. soccer moms) There is a considerable number of people that do require a more rugged form of transportation, albeit less fuel efficient.


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"Life has never been weird enough for my liking"


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
Twisted brainwrong of a oneoff man mental

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 812
Loc: Airstrip One
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Rono]
    #5562496 - 04/27/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Where you live thats fine, where I live they are a menace. No one needs a SUV in London or any big city really. A weed is just a plant in the wrong place, just as are SUVs around town.

Its down to local areas to consider SUVs, just as they would other heavy traffic, maybe limiting access during peak times.

If they are a road safety issue and the stats show it, they should be considered as are heavy vehicles, that they requiring additional handling qualifications.


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OfflineEvesApple
civillydisobedient
Female

Registered: 04/18/06
Posts: 27
Last seen: 16 years, 11 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Rono]
    #5562697 - 04/27/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Rono said:
But I live in Western Canada...The Rocky Mountains are 40 minutes away from me, and there is snow on the ground for most of the year.




That's a bit different than needing it because you can't fit in a regular car, isn't it?  :thumbup: I have a friend who also lives near the range and swears by his four wheel drive station wagon, which is probably how I'd go, myself. Winter is the driest season of the year here, so I guess the reasoning is people around here have to own SUVs or they look like pansies compared with all the farm trucks. Having an SUV certainly never saved any of the dumbfounded around here when it does snow, instead it gives them an excuse to rollover on the highway. Though judging from the scene on the I this morning, they don't really need the excuse.

I wouldn't try to take the farm trucks away from the farmers, either. Awfully hard to haul livestock in a SmartCar.  :crazy2:

It's really not so much of an SUV problem, it's an urban sprawl problem. Solving the sprawl issue would make the SUV issue moot.


--------------------
Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream
It is not dying...It is not dying
Lay down all thought, surrender to the void
It is shining...It is shining
That you may see the meaning of within
It is being...It is being


Edited by EvesApple (04/27/06 12:39 PM)


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5562815 - 04/27/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

What is the relevance your (often mistaken) beliefs about vehicles classified as SUVs have in relation to politics or activism or law?

Are you saying they should be outlawed? Are you saying people should protest their sale? Let's have a tie-in, or there's no point leaving the thread open.



Phred


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5562919 - 04/27/06 01:51 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)



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Invisibledownforpot
Stranger
Male
Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Silversoul]
    #5562957 - 04/27/06 02:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't drive an SUV, I drive an infiniti sedan that guzzles gasoline and goes 160mph.


--------------------



http://www.myspace.com/4th25


"And I don't care if he was handcuffed
Then shot in his head
All I know is dead bodies
Can't fuck with me again"


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Phred]
    #5562988 - 04/27/06 02:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Are you saying they should be outlawed? Are you saying people should protest their sale? Let's have a tie-in, or there's no point leaving the thread open.



Alright, I have a proposal. I think there should be a special tax levied on high-emissions vehicles, and the revenue should go towards research into alternative fuels.


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Phred]
    #5563252 - 04/27/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
What is the relevance your (often mistaken) beliefs about vehicles classified as SUVs have in relation to politics or activism or law?





Energy conservation is a hot political issue. The possible regulation of consumer vehicle fuel efficiency is definitely a political issue

Quote:


Are you saying they should be outlawed? Are you saying people should protest their sale? Let's have a tie-in, or there's no point leaving the thread open.





I think that people should only be allowed to operate innefficient vehicles if they have a special permit granted for special needs, eg: people who haul cargo on a regular basis, people who haul multiple passengers on a regular basis, or as Rono pointed out, people who live on rugged terrain.

I'm reading your mind. You want me to define inefficient. Personally, I would say anything that gets less than 20mpg averaged between city and highway driving. But realistically, 'inefficient' would have to be defined by democratic consensus.

the negative effects of the popularity of SUVs on people who do not own them provides ample justification for such legislation.


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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
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Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5563336 - 04/27/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think we shoudl just start destroying them. SUV's are stupid design anyways. If you need somethign to get around in bad terrain a truck or jeep would be better. Farmers dont need suv's they need a pickup. the extra inside space is just wasted material.

So yea I vote we all go out and start some good old fashioned vandalism.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5563523 - 04/27/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't care about their lack of fuel efficiency or their tendency to roll over easily. What I care about is the danger to other motorists. Because of their high bumpers, what would normally be a typical rear-ending can end up with a person in a car dying. Also, these SUV drivers feel like they're invincible and they drive just the same.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: downforpot]
    #5563538 - 04/27/06 04:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

downforpot said:
I don't drive an SUV, I drive an infiniti sedan that guzzles gasoline and goes 160mph.




NICE :thumbup:


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: DoctorJ]
    #5563587 - 04/27/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Personally, I would say anything that gets less than 20mpg averaged between city and highway driving.




In other words, the majority of vans, minivans, and pickup trucks. And a great many large sedans to boot.



Phred


--------------------


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OfflinePhred
Fred's son
Male

Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Redstorm]
    #5563609 - 04/27/06 04:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Because of their high bumpers, what would normally be a typical rear-ending can end up with a person in a car dying.




What? I'd like to see some proof of that, please. Are you saying the bumper of an SUV is higher than the trunkline of the typical compact car?

As an aside, the bumpers of pickup trucks are as high as (and often higher than) the bumpers of SUVS. And the bumpers of large trucks are higher still. What's your proposal for dealing with that?




Phred


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OfflineRedstorm
Prince of Bugs
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Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Phred]
    #5563735 - 04/27/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Damnit, I just typed out a huge post, then closed the page.

Anyways, there is no contest that trucks and SUV's have higher bumpers than almost all models of cars. Also, SUV's are considered light trucks, and are not held to the same standard for bumper safety as passenger cars are. This means that when a car submarines under the broken bumper, it meets the underbody of the SUV, causing an extraordinary amount of damage. Also, since the front bumper is just as high, they can actually ride over the back of cars in a rear-ending. This has become such a problem that GM started lowering the underbody.

What would I do? I would do exactly what GM is doing. I would lower the underbody and increase the strength of both the front and the rear bumpers.

I just dug up these links real quick. I'm busy right now, but I'll dig you up some more later if you'd like.

http://www.iihs.org/news/2000/iihs_news_091300.pdf
http://csmonitor.com/cgi-bin/durableRedirect.pl?/durable/2000/03/22/fp5s2-csm.shtml

Just to be clear, I have no problem with people driving SUV's. They have the freedom of choice, which I would protect to all ends. I just want to give truth where it needs to be given.


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OfflineDoctorJ
Male

Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
Re: Gass Guzzlers [Re: Phred]
    #5563737 - 04/27/06 05:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Phred said:
Quote:

Personally, I would say anything that gets less than 20mpg averaged between city and highway driving.




In other words, the majority of vans, minivans, and pickup trucks. And a great many large sedans to boot.





yes. But I'm not targeting the people that need these vehicles. I'm targeting the people that don't need them and have them anyway.

I live in an affluent suburb of Dallas. Daily, I see Ford Excursions being piloted by a single person, with no passengers or cargo. This blatantly irresponsible behavior must be stopped. Because of fuel consumption, because of emissions, and because of road safety.

I seriously believe that if such a plan were implemented, the roads would be safer, the air would be cleaner, and the consumption of oil by America would be dramatically reduced. And since demand for oil would be reduced, prices would go down, and America would have a better global reputation.


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