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OfflineNeoQ
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Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL
    #5561260 - 04/27/06 09:23 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I am sure most of you have used Tryptamine HCL to increase potency up to 3 times. Here is a link for those that don't know:

http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/7953


Where do you usually buy this chemical?


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Offlinewiggles
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5561354 - 04/27/06 09:50 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Check out the harmala alkaloids and this post:
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=Forum1&Number=4714757&page=0&fpart=all

as well if you're interested in potentiating psychadelics.


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OfflineShroomInduced
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: wiggles]
    #5561441 - 04/27/06 10:32 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I too would like to know where one can obtain Tryptamine. Ive ben wanting to experiment with this for some time now, a link would be excellent!


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InvisibleWIZOLZ
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: ShroomInduced]
    #5561558 - 04/27/06 11:34 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Thats one awsome discovery, the results are very very very facinating, if not entirely exciting. Thanks alot for the suggestion. I can only wonder what these experts are discovering today...about everything.

Now, I have a bottle of 5-HTP, hydroxytryptophan..hmmmm, sounds similar...but would it work also? It's spose to be brain medicine, not a mycilium additive. Meh, I could never test it...Though, It most probably increases the shroom effect...because its a seratonin supplement, similar compounds. Godda love all that biochemical mumbo jumbo.

Do you know where your kids are ??? "Yes, out eating super potent pyhcedelic mushrooms that I grew" (Best parent ever !!! )


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: WIZOLZ] * 1
    #5562143 - 04/27/06 06:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

the name sounds similar but they're nothing alike.  5HTP is a precursor to seratonin, its just one little chemical conversion away from seratonin... i guess your body couldn't absorb a straight seratonin suppliment, so instead taking this "almost-seratonin" chemical your body easily converts it instead.  its usefulness is questionable since you aren't going to produce "extra" seratonin just because the building blocks are there, but if you're deficient it helps.  taking it regularly ensures healthy seratonin levels though and thats  :thumbup: for trips.  :mushroom2:

JLF catalog used to sell tryptamine back in the day... but after their legal run-ins a few years ago they cut a lot of the good stuff outa their catalog. :frown:

tryptamine's CAS number is 61-54-1 - google that number up (in quotes) and you'll probably find some suppliers.  sciencelab.com for example.


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OfflineNeoQ
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5562651 - 04/27/06 09:23 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I found a link that sells it. It seems kinda expensive, but I did not see any other sellers.

http://sciencelab.com/page/S/PVAR/SLT3859

10 g $41.00
50 g $133.83
25 kg $13278.38


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5562682 - 04/27/06 09:31 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

considering the tek suggests about 100mg per brf jar, that adds a whopping 41 cents per jar in cost and the ability to spike 100 jars, even for the higher priced 10g amount. seems worth it IMO if it works as well as they say.

do yourself a favor and get a miligram accurate scale though... you can't "eyeball" 100mg and you wont have much luck trying to weigh on a regular digi gram scale... i got a single-beam balance little plastic jewelry/gemstone dealy that's surprisingly accurate (once compared something weighed in it to results from a very very expensive lab scale and found it almost spot on) for about 15 bucks at a head shop a maybe 5-6 years back. would ebay such a thing these days.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5562690 - 04/27/06 09:33 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

in fact,  here she is - its even more accurate than stated if you're very careful with it.  i lost the little weights long ago so mine only does 1g max, maybe will have to pick up another one for only $8.50  :laugh:


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Offlinemthorogo
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5565446 - 04/28/06 09:25 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

the tek doesn't explain how exactly you add the triptamine HCL to the BRF cakes. Do you just sprinkle 100mg on them or what?


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Offlineshroomballa
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: mthorogo]
    #5566556 - 04/28/06 07:44 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

just mix it in with you verm and BRF


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: mthorogo]
    #5566622 - 04/28/06 08:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

mix 100mg per 1/4cup of water that would go in the recipe... dissolve it in the water first so its spread evenly... use the spiked water as normal then


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Offlinefungus_among_us
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5566875 - 04/28/06 09:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

That is awesome, I am moving so I'll be taking a hiatus from this hobby. However, I going to purchase some so I have it for when I pick the hobby back up in the fall. Any idea as to the best method for storing Tryptamine HCL? Should it be refrigerated?

NeoQ: What you found was Tryptamine. I believe what you are looking for is Tryptamine Hydrochloride. It's slightly more expensive. But I believe you need the hydrochloride.

I found it for a little cheaper.


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Edited by fungus_among_us (04/28/06 09:47 PM)


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fungus_among_us]
    #5566893 - 04/28/06 09:39 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

no direct experience or knowledge of trypamine, but experience in ordering legitimate chems from chemical suppliers tells me it will come in an appropriate container (eg, glass, plastic, metal depending on if its reactive, opaque if light sensitive) and it will almost definitely be labelled with storage instructions if its anything but room temperature - as well as come with an MSDS (material safety data sheet) for handling instructions and precautions. if not you can certainly request an MSDS from the supplier, as i believe they're supposed to have them available by law.


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567026 - 04/28/06 10:32 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

woah woah woah woah! all you have to do is buy some of that stuff, sprinkle 100 mg in a pint jar and you get 3 times the potency? thats it?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #5567060 - 04/28/06 10:46 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

almost.  100mg per half pint is the supposed mixture.

about the comment up above about the hydrochloride version... good point.  i had the wrong cas number.  the hcl version is a salt that's gonna be water/acid soluble and thus more easily uptaked by the mycelium network.  i don't know crap about the non-hcl version to say for sure if the myc will "absorb" it, but i do know that's the reason they hcl things in the first place.  with a minimal amount of chemistry equipment, skills, and some hydrochloric acid (very common and easily obtainable) you can probably react the tryptamine into tryptamine hcl to save money.  as to an exact "recipe" or method to use, somebody with more than my chem 101 skills here is gonna have to pitch in.

and by the way to follow up on that other question, when i searched for the now correct CAS number (343-94-2) i came upon the MSDS: http://web2.cas.usf.edu/garey/BIO%20Department%20MSDS/T/Tryptamine%20Hydrochloride.pdf

- light sensitive, keep out of light.  should ship in an opaque container.
- storage: store in a cool, dry place.  store in a tightly closed container.

shouldn't be too hard to handle.

a totally lower-tech and cheaper way to go about all this might be to load your substrates up with tryptophan instead.  its an amino acid (protien) that tryptamine comes from in the first place.  easy access to the tryptomine is probably ideal because its a step closer to psilo*, but a healthy supply of tryptophan is probably a real good thing for your substrate as far as potency goes too.  pure L-tryptophan can be found for a tiny fraction of the cost as a dietary suppliment.  experiment time anybody?  :smile:  (or has this been done?)


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OfflineSerani
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567093 - 04/28/06 11:00 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Can this Tryptamine HCL be added to another strand? Instead of P.Cubensis that has a general max of 1.2 % psilocybin, maybe to a a much loved wood-bearing strain that usually maxes around 2.4 % :-D

Because if so...I am going to get working on some mushrooms to which will knock my ass flat :-D


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567094 - 04/28/06 11:01 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

approximatley how many times would this add to potency? demographics?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567097 - 04/28/06 11:02 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

P.S. again (LOL maybe we should move to advanced under a new thread)... this has my brain churning...

an interesting thought (according to nutritiondata.com):
* tryptophan makes for %0.0127 of the protiens in BRF.  its a mere 0.00091% percent by weight.  there's a grand total of 36.25mg of tryptophan in a quarter cup of BRF, what goes into your half pinter.  im guessing it wouldn't take much to notice a difference if the tryptophan has much to do with alkaloid production... especially considering the nutritional suppliments for human consumption come in 500mg capsules, bottles of 100, for like 12 bucks, this is begging to be experimented with... :smile:

coincidentally, if we say an "average" cake produces 40 grams, and is of an "average" potency containing roughly .6mg alkaloids per gram gram, we come up with a number around 24mg... oddly similar in an expected way to that 36mg of tryptophan that went in in the first place...  a 3-fold gain from adding 100mg of tryptamine... coincidence again?  being that 36*3 comes out around 100? hmmmmm

we might not need tryptamine hcl after all? :smile:  tryptophan might be close enough?  and much easier obtained... and doesn't have to be a hcl salt...

it really seems so simple and too good to be true.  yet there's next to no mention of tryptophan on these forums (including advanced).  am i missing something obvious here?  is there a reason this hasn't even been discussed?

*edit* instead of messing up this thread with my theoretical babble anymore, here's a few more additional pieces of l-tryptophan info:

Solubility:  Soluble in water.  (means the myc can absorb it too!)
pH:  5.5-7.0 (1% aqueous solution)  (means it won't substationally shift the pH of our substrate since we'd be dealing with small amounts... myc can tolerate acidic substrate anyway)
Melting Point:  282C (540F) (Decomposes at 289C)  (means we can PC the crap out of it all day long and we're not even close to harming it)


Edited by creamcorn (04/28/06 11:27 PM)


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Serani]
    #5567111 - 04/28/06 11:06 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i dont see why not... its not the mushroom that has anything to do with anything, its the chemical similarity between typtamine and psilo* alkaloids.

a different species may convert the tryptamine more or less, but my intuitive guess would be more since its already capable of producing a higher psilo to overall weight ratio as it is... (of course the opposite could be true, it might already be so "efficient" at it that its already at a maximum, and giving it more of the building-blocks it needs might not accomplish anything. like taking a 100% RDA vitamin versus a 10000% one, you just piss out most of it because you don't need it!)


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Offlinecampinman
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567151 - 04/28/06 11:26 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

somehow i see you folks living in the good ol US of A getting watched if you are buying alot of tryptamine HCL from lab supply warehouses. isnt it a precursor to alot of illegal drugs? maybe im way off.


what i do for potency boost is add keenwa to my jars. its a small grain that has the most trytophan of any grain in the world.


cheers


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: campinman]
    #5567155 - 04/28/06 11:29 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

nope, you're not way off, you're right on.

on the other hand, tryptophan is sold over the counter all over the place.  it'd be unbelivabley easy to drop an extra 50 or 100mg in, rather than search out exotic grains like the one you mention that i've never heard of :smile:

edit again: ohhh... keenwa = quinoa.  d'oh, nutritiondata doesn't have tryptophan data for it to compare...


Edited by creamcorn (04/28/06 11:58 PM)


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Offlinecaboomers
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567250 - 04/29/06 12:19 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

tryptamine in wbs? shaken??


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Offlineqwon
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567282 - 04/29/06 12:33 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

'tryptophan is sold over the counter all over the place.' - but is it isolated?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: qwon]
    #5567364 - 04/29/06 01:04 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

you bet. see here for example... note certificate of analysis. also note 100 grams bulk powder for $35. just from a quick google....


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: qwon]
    #5567372 - 04/29/06 01:06 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

well I spawn to poo. So couldnt you just well do the math for wet manure then when softening the hpoo on stove to break up all chunk just throw the tryptophan in then. then pasteurize. I guess you could put it in your jars as well but for those doing bulk that little amount added to jars is nothing compared to the total sub bulk weight when spawned. what do you think and I think this has been talked about in the advanced a lot but I am not sure


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5567415 - 04/29/06 01:20 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

sure.  the point is to add the tryptomine or tryptophan to your substrate.  its really pretty simple :smile:  you can get it in there more evenly if you dissolve it in water first.  so take BRF 1/2pt jars out of the equation here, thats pretty well irrelevant, was just used as a basis for comparison.  anywhere you're adding water to your substrate in whatever recipe or tek you use, simply add in the tryptomine/tryptophan to the water.  mix well.  use "spiked" water as normal in place of regular water.  done and done.


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567500 - 04/29/06 01:42 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

but whats the ratio? if i was spawing wbs to 10 pounds of poo how would i know how much tryptophan to use?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #5567566 - 04/29/06 02:00 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

i dont know somebody throw a quarter cup of BRF onto a scale and tell us how much it weighs. if we know 100mg per quarter cup is good, figure out a ratio by dry weight, apply ratio to whatever the dry weight of your substrate (spawn + poo, so in your case a little over 10lbs) and you're good to go. i don't have a scale handy or i'd tell you straight out...

it would seem too little is still a hell of a lot better than none. too much isn't harmful to an extent but is wasteful because there's going to be a point where only so much is used (like the vitamin analogy a few posts back). its not that sensitive of a formula we're coming up with here...


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OfflineRadioethiopia
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5568306 - 04/29/06 05:14 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Now who here has actually done this and seen the same results as the study? If anyone can back that up with their own experience, I'll order some Tryptamine HCL before I start any new cakes! Tripling the potency is an unbelievable benefit from something so simple!


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Offlinebuckallyall
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Radioethiopia]
    #5568720 - 04/29/06 07:02 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

What if you put it in a LC??


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: buckallyall]
    #5571054 - 04/30/06 02:07 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

putting it in an LC is pretty damn well pointless. myc in a lc barely produce any alkaloids in the first place, they begin to produce them when they're a little "older" maybe 10 days-2 weeks in. they might still take advantage of it and produce slightly more alkaloids, but still way less than a typical mushroom. and considering you dont eat myc out of an LC (if you're any sort of normal person) whats the point? LC is for starting up spawn/substrate/jars/etc. the stuff is "food" so its not like you're gonna get jacked up super-buff ripped myc LC ready to potent up the place when they hit the jars... you need it in your jars or substrate for them to use while they're growing later.


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Offlinefozi
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hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5571552 - 04/30/06 04:36 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I went to the store and could not find any of the mentioned additives to make the mushrooms more potent. The store told me they are not allowed to sell either product anymore but did suggest this product which is the same thing hydroxytryptophan. The difference being that hydroxytryptophan turns into tryptophan once consumed..

So.. Can one use hydroxytryptophan instead?

Has anyone ever heard anything on hydroxytryptophan?

THanks


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5572212 - 04/30/06 07:21 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

its a bit more complicated then that anyway for spawning poo unless your using a lot of coir and vermiculite. see you might say hey I have X weight of poo so I need X amount of tryptophan. Well my method is to warm in on the stove. Put in collander rotate around and throw vermiculite in. Hence throwing off the amount of tryptophan additive levels Probably considerably. if you were to wet poo with a pre-set amount of tryptophan then add vermiculite and coir to hit the right saturation point that would work. otherwise you would have to weight your water and adjust your water to the right tryptophan levels that way unless it has some sort of bonding ability to the poo it would not matter how much you washed down the drain it would still be the amount you were aiming for which is X.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573181 - 04/30/06 12:21 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

the store is wrong. they're allowed to sell it they just choose not to perhaps. tryptophan is in a huge percentage of the foods you eat. without it, you would die. its an amino acid required for human life, but not synthesized by humans. i promise its not illegal or never will be. it is true that straight isolated tryptophan was a prescription drug at a point but not so now; it can be found much more commonly. tryptamine isn't going to be sold simply over the counter in a meant-for-human-consumption form. hydroxytryptophan is 5-htp. not what you want here. while it has a similar effect in humans as tryptophan (both being precursors to seratonin production, 5-htp actually being a step closer than tryptophan) you've gone a chemical step "too far" for psilo production as far as i know. yeah if you're buying it as a suppliment for human conumption its as good as the same if not better, but mushrooms aren't people. somebody please correct me if i'm wrong but i'm no chem guru here, but i believe psilo* is a 4-hydroxy and you'd have to some how "un-hydroxy" the 5-htp to get it back to a point where it could be used to produce psilo* and things just don't work that way. whereas tryptophan/tryptomine are not "hydroxolated" and can much easier be used as a building block for the good stuff... i know thats way oversimplifying things and i only have a basic intuitive understanding but i don't think adding 5-htp to your substrate is going to do squat. see the earlier link i pasted. you can certainly buy it mail-order and its not anything special. you'd be lucky to find it at a local store, despite that its pretty much an "over the counter" suppliment its still pretty much a specialty item... if you do find tryptophan, it will be called "l-tryptophan" and probably be amongst the body building stuff, along with your typical protien shakes and whatnot. its also been used as a sleep aid (the prescription version).


Edited by creamcorn (04/30/06 12:45 PM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5573247 - 04/30/06 12:50 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

nope, it really is that simple.  vermiculite and coir are there to give your mix a certain "texture" and airiness perhaps, but they dont provide "food" for the mushrooms (well... coir can to an extent, but that's not its purpose.)  think about the portion of your substrate that will actually be consumed - the poo itself, the grain spawn, etc.  that's what you're trying to "adjust" by adding extra tryptophan in.  got nothin' do do with your verm or coir or casing or ph buffer or any other stuff you add in or on top.

again, this isn't a sensitive formula or ratio here.  we're talking a food suppliment.  some is better than none.  too much is not bad, just wasteful.  regardless the semantics and how you want to weigh things out and figure your numbers, if you're adding some, you're likely to see a benefit to an extent, end of story.  it would be my suspicion based on this whole theory that since conventional wisdom says poo gives more potent yields, there's already a higher level of tryptophan naturally occuring.  so perhaps the amounts you need to add are less, being that there's going to be a "saturation" point where adding more isn't going to help more, the mushrooms can only use so much.

no need to overcomplicate things and bog us down with irrelevance... just try and understand how this works... we're talking about a protien here, something in eggs, in meats, in grains, etc.  we're talking about increasing the percentage that it exists naturally, only to be sure the mushrooms have more than enough of the "tools" they need to produce alkaloids.  its not complicated and doesn't require this much over-thinking  :cool:


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573311 - 04/30/06 02:58 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

ok.. that was a lot of good info.. enough for me to be even more confused and say just forget it.. i have tried an experiment.. I will share my conclusion if it turns out to be notable..

thanks


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573395 - 04/30/06 04:40 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

One of the easiest sources of natural triptophans is seaweed, and cubes will grow very well on it when you mix it in with manure/straw. You can collect it by the truckload at the beach if you live near one. However, after a year of experimenting with different additives, I stopped because I could see no actual evidence that any of the substances served as a precursor to higher potency.
RR


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5573754 - 04/30/06 08:24 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

I get what your saying and I was not trying to "Bog us down with irrelevence" I was just saying that if you wanted to do controlled experiments of tryptophan additive then you would have to match the tryptophan to the water content added NOT the poo. Because when straining the poo there goes the additive unless you add a certain amount of water that oversaturates and you use coir and vermiculite to hit the right level of saturation.

Now on with this discussion.
Roger rabbit there is a guy on here that did some coffee and seaweed grows that were killer on growth. I do not know about potency but there were rhizos growing on the plastic container above the casing and Pinning.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5573928 - 04/30/06 09:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

well if we want to do controlled experiments, we do it with something simple and straight forward like PF jars fruited as plain cakes.  kind of like how the original tryptamine theory was tested... and where we started back at the top of this thread - it veered off topic there as folks were asking if it could be used with other growing methods.  keep it simple as possible.  control jars with no tryptophan versus jars with some (perhaps different amounts to find the best ratio).  if it works there its reasonable to say that it will work with other growing methods.  the proportions and means of adding it to your substrate will differ and need to be tweaked, sure, but its not neccessary (nor wise) to do  control experiment with a more complicated grow that involves more steps, ingredients, and variables, and that by nature is already bulk and can't be reproduced many times to confirm as easily as with some plain ol pf jars...  (although if you're in a situation where you can rattle off a dozen or two 5lb poo grows as easy as making up and fruiting as many pf jars, more power to you!  :thumbup: :cool:)

i see what you're saying about figuring out ratios for adding it to poo and that its not going to be quite so straight forward.  we'll have to come up with a clever way to get a known amount well distributed within the poo is all.  we can figure out something.  :cool:

seaweed on the other hand is no problem.  i'm on an island right now!


Edited by creamcorn (04/30/06 09:49 PM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5574200 - 04/30/06 11:11 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

JSshroom said:
Now on with this discussion.
Roger rabbit there is a guy on here that did some coffee and seaweed grows that were killer on growth. I do not know about potency but there were rhizos growing on the plastic container above the casing and Pinning.




I remember those well. They were mine.
RR


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5576077 - 05/01/06 10:01 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

damn my thread got real complicated at the end. lol

So we can use this in poo bags?


Also anyone tried this yet? Were the shrooms better?


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5576144 - 05/01/06 10:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

yeah sorry about jackin' the thread a bit there but i think it was constructive :smile:


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5576223 - 05/01/06 11:03 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

O most definately...Understanding is a primary step to success. I think these quotes sum it up nicely...

Creamcorn - again, this isn't a sensitive formula or ratio here. we're talking a food suppliment. some is better than none. too much is not bad, just wasteful.

- sure. the point is to add the tryptomine or tryptophan to your substrate. its really pretty simple you can get it in there more evenly if you dissolve it in water first.

- we're talking about increasing the percentage that it exists naturally, only to be sure the mushrooms have more than enough of the "tools" they need to produce alkaloids.

- considering the tek suggests about 100mg per brf jar, that adds a whopping 41 cents per jar in cost and the ability to spike 100 jars, even for the higher priced 10g amount.

Campinman - what i do for potency boost is add keenwa / quinoa to my jars. its a small grain that has the most trytophan of any grain in the world.

Fungus_amoung_us -
What you found was Tryptamine. I believe what you are looking for is Tryptamine Hydrochloride.

RogerRabit - One of the easiest sources of natural triptophans is seaweed, and cubes will grow very well on it when you mix it in with manure/straw.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5577380 - 05/01/06 10:42 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Ok....so are we suppose to use Tryptamine, Tryptamine Hydrochloride, or tryptophan for PF jars? Kinda got lost throughout the thread. I know that using seaweed in manure is a good source of tryptophan, but didn't quite understand what to use for PF jars. Thanks


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5577408 - 05/01/06 10:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

tryptamine hcl is what was originally proven as working, according to the link way back at the beginning of the thread.  tryptamine won't work, needs to be the hcl salt so that it can be absorbed.  tryptophan is "theoretical" and is very likely to work but we haven't gotten as far as proving that just yet :smile:  (well, we do know additives high in tryptophan are good, we just don't know that if using the pure stuff will have the same benefit.) tryptophan would be nice because its the least expensive of the bunch and easiest to obtain.

hope that clears it up, we were a little all over the map there :smile:


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5579241 - 05/02/06 06:44 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Aaahhh... Thanks for clearing that up! This is my first time experimenting with anything...I just got my first set up and finally got my order in today! I want it to run as smoothly as possible, so I think for this time I'll stick with the Tryptamine HCL...

--LOOK HERE its only $11 for 5g of 99% instead of 98% for $37!!!!!!!--
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835973

Ya just gotta look a little bit harder, its not to bad guys. I'll keep everyone posted on how it goes if it's what we need.
What do you think corn, is that the right stuff??


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5579289 - 05/02/06 06:50 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

nope - that's tyramine, not tryptamine :smile:  almost haha... when buying chemicals you'll always see a CAS number, its like an index number that's unique for a particular chemical.  tryptamine hcl is 343-94-2.  if you search for that CAS number in the search box on that site, they do have the right stuff, but it is $30 for 5g.  (still a bit cheaper - so all in all, nice find!  :thumbup:)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5579883 - 05/02/06 09:12 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

you see....that's why I make sure before I do things so I don't mess things up, thanks again!


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5580245 - 05/02/06 11:54 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

what im wondering .. i do not really know about the chemistry but hell why would you want to make your shrooms more potent ?

some nicely grown horse poo shrooms can blow my head off easily, no need to make them like three times more potent !


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: ohmatic]
    #5580538 - 05/02/06 03:56 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Agreed, and you can't make them three times as potent. I know of nobody who has actually had this stuff work to increase potency. It sure didn't for me.
RR


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: ohmatic]
    #5580573 - 05/02/06 04:20 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

why?  the same reason i drive a sports car for my 3-minute commute to work on 40mph roads... i'm a guy :smile:

besides, its fun to play scientist and find out for myself even if the results are sub-par  :cool:  don't get me wrong, i respect RR's opinion above most, but there's so few people who have tried going about this in an intelligent way (or at least reporting back to us in an intelligent way!) and it makes a lot of sense to me that it could very well do at least "something"

i still havent heard of a single person who tried using pure tryptophan as an additive either, yet lots who use additives with high tryptophan concentrations who do see noticable differences... and i'm more interested in that route than the tryptamine hcl route.


Edited by creamcorn (05/02/06 06:29 PM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5581548 - 05/02/06 10:48 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

why wouldn't anyone want shrooms 3x more potent? Just eat less and still get fucked up and have left overs for friends.

We all have problems of not having enough shrooms:)

After I do this I will report back.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5581652 - 05/02/06 11:35 PM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Ducktoe69x said:
--LOOK HERE its only $11 for 5g of 99% instead of 98% for $37!!!!!!!--
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835973






I tried to order from them....but I got a email today that said we do not ship to residental areas. And they check before hand. So don't bother buying it from them.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5581804 - 05/03/06 12:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

just a tip in the future.  don't follow links to chemical suppliers from the boards here.  there's a thing called "http referer" where your web browser tells the site you're visiting what link you came from.  its quite often tracked to determine what advertising might have been effective, what search engines customers used to find the place, etc.  in ordering a potentially shadey chem like tryptamine, you probably don't want your referer to point to this thread for them to find only to come back here and look and see what you intend on using it for... instead when you're ready to order stuff, type in the address manually, search for the item from their front page, so they can't see where you came from! :smile:

im not saying thats why they might have denied your order, but its just good advice to follow in the future.  in fact its good advice for everyone to follow, and as good practice we shouldn't even be posting direct links to grey-area products... even a few hits from nosy folks clicking on the links for "shroomery.org" to be showing up in their logs and that might catch some unnecessary attention...


Edited by creamcorn (05/03/06 12:33 AM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5581884 - 05/03/06 12:43 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

yeah agree. next time people should include a note that says type it manually. I use to have websites and I could see where they came from. But I don;t think that was the reason they denied me.


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5584054 - 05/03/06 08:24 AM (16 years, 9 months ago)

Didnt Gartz do this years ago? And didnt he find that at a certain level L-tryptophan and trytamines actually inbihited potency?


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5641805 - 05/17/06 09:44 PM (16 years, 8 months ago)

If you put more than the "Updated" PF Tek suggests, then it will dwarf the shroomies (whats the fun in that). If you add anything up to but not more, it is said it will increase psilocin. It sounds like a good idea, but If you have a large enough chamber, just inoculate like 24 jars instead of 12 and have a lot more growth!

Link for a large, inexpensive, fully automated fruiting chamber!
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5892532 - 07/24/06 06:37 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

beofre anyone triesthis you should read this thread
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5840949/an/0/page/0

great read


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: eclipse]
    #5892886 - 07/24/06 08:59 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

> you can't "eyeball" 100mg

Sure you can. If you have a scale that weighs grams accurately just divide 1 gram into 10 even piles and you have 100mg.

> cheaper way to go about all this might be to load your substrates up with tryptophan instead.

Nope won't work. Possibly a fairly minimal increase, but very small. Tryptophan is highly regulated and not subject to increase by substrate supplementation. I have plenty of references if anyone's interested, or you could check out my many posts in advanced on the topic.

> there's next to no mention of tryptophan on these forums (including advanced).

There's been many, many discussions of it in advanced. Search my posts in advanced for about a dozen threads on the subject. Your numbers are interesting, but that overlooks the fact that only a tiny portion of tryptophan that's incorporated into psilocybin comes from the substrate. Like all amino acids the vast majority is produced by the organism rather than being absorbed from the substrate.

> beofre anyone triesthis you should read this thread

Thanks. There's also quite a few other threads on the same topic.

So anyway... Here's the definitive answer to all your questions about this subject.

Code:

Incorporation of Labelled Precursors into Psilocybin
-----------------------------------------------------

"Dilution"
(Spec. activity of precursor/
Precursor introduced spec. activity of psilocybin)
------------------------------------------------------
L-Tryptophan-H^3 132
Tryptamine-C^14 33
N-Methyltryptamine-H^3 2
N,N-Dimethyltryptamine-C^14 31
Psilocin-H^3 6
DL-4-OH-Tryptophan-H^3 >500
------------------------------------------------------
The results (Table) show that 4—OH-tryptophan in contrast to tryptophan
(I) does not function as a precursor. Tryptamine (II) which is readily
formed from tryptophan by P. cubensis (3) serves as a better precursor of
psilocybin than tryptophan. N—Methyltryptamine (III) is a still better
progenitor of psilocybin but N,N-dimethyltryptamine (IV) is rather poorly
incorporated as judged from the dilution figures. However, if the poor
absorption of this compound by the fungus (less than 5%) is taken into
account, the high dilution factor does not make it an unlikely
intermediate. Psilocin (V) is effectively converted into psilocybin.
4-Hydroxytryptamine—C^14 is also incorporated into psilocybin but the
introduction of this compound led to the formation of one or two other
minor products not normally detectable in the cultures. Thus, it may be
questioned if this route via 4-hydroxytryptamine is normally occuring in
the fungus.




So there you go. I encourage people to experiment with this though. I'll post the follow up paper to that one in a bit if anyone's interested.


-FF


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fastfred]
    #5892900 - 07/24/06 09:01 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)



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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fastfred]
    #5893146 - 07/24/06 10:05 AM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Here is the follow up study to the first one I posted. I have the article if anyone wants it, but it's pretty dry and mostly summed up in the pics.







-FF


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fastfred]
    #5893607 - 07/24/06 02:24 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

? tryptamine hcl? add to substrate? wha? that link was dead? or my ISP blows.


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: jeetered]
    #5893643 - 07/24/06 02:56 PM (16 years, 6 months ago)

Your ISP must suck. This link works fine.
http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/7953


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