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OfflineNeoQ
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5576077 - 05/01/06 03:01 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

damn my thread got real complicated at the end. lol

So we can use this in poo bags?


Also anyone tried this yet? Were the shrooms better?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5576144 - 05/01/06 03:24 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

yeah sorry about jackin' the thread a bit there but i think it was constructive :smile:


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InvisibleWIZOLZ
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5576223 - 05/01/06 04:03 AM (15 years, 18 days ago)

O most definately...Understanding is a primary step to success. I think these quotes sum it up nicely...

Creamcorn - again, this isn't a sensitive formula or ratio here. we're talking a food suppliment. some is better than none. too much is not bad, just wasteful.

- sure. the point is to add the tryptomine or tryptophan to your substrate. its really pretty simple you can get it in there more evenly if you dissolve it in water first.

- we're talking about increasing the percentage that it exists naturally, only to be sure the mushrooms have more than enough of the "tools" they need to produce alkaloids.

- considering the tek suggests about 100mg per brf jar, that adds a whopping 41 cents per jar in cost and the ability to spike 100 jars, even for the higher priced 10g amount.

Campinman - what i do for potency boost is add keenwa / quinoa to my jars. its a small grain that has the most trytophan of any grain in the world.

Fungus_amoung_us -
What you found was Tryptamine. I believe what you are looking for is Tryptamine Hydrochloride.

RogerRabit - One of the easiest sources of natural triptophans is seaweed, and cubes will grow very well on it when you mix it in with manure/straw.


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Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
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"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
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WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile


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OfflineDucktoe69x
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5577380 - 05/01/06 03:42 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Ok....so are we suppose to use Tryptamine, Tryptamine Hydrochloride, or tryptophan for PF jars? Kinda got lost throughout the thread. I know that using seaweed in manure is a good source of tryptophan, but didn't quite understand what to use for PF jars. Thanks


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5577408 - 05/01/06 03:56 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

tryptamine hcl is what was originally proven as working, according to the link way back at the beginning of the thread.  tryptamine won't work, needs to be the hcl salt so that it can be absorbed.  tryptophan is "theoretical" and is very likely to work but we haven't gotten as far as proving that just yet :smile:  (well, we do know additives high in tryptophan are good, we just don't know that if using the pure stuff will have the same benefit.) tryptophan would be nice because its the least expensive of the bunch and easiest to obtain.

hope that clears it up, we were a little all over the map there :smile:


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OfflineDucktoe69x
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5579241 - 05/01/06 11:44 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Aaahhh... Thanks for clearing that up! This is my first time experimenting with anything...I just got my first set up and finally got my order in today! I want it to run as smoothly as possible, so I think for this time I'll stick with the Tryptamine HCL...

--LOOK HERE its only $11 for 5g of 99% instead of 98% for $37!!!!!!!--
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835973

Ya just gotta look a little bit harder, its not to bad guys. I'll keep everyone posted on how it goes if it's what we need.
What do you think corn, is that the right stuff??


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5579289 - 05/01/06 11:50 PM (15 years, 17 days ago)

nope - that's tyramine, not tryptamine :smile:  almost haha... when buying chemicals you'll always see a CAS number, its like an index number that's unique for a particular chemical.  tryptamine hcl is 343-94-2.  if you search for that CAS number in the search box on that site, they do have the right stuff, but it is $30 for 5g.  (still a bit cheaper - so all in all, nice find!  :thumbup:)


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OfflineDucktoe69x
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5579883 - 05/02/06 02:12 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

you see....that's why I make sure before I do things so I don't mess things up, thanks again!


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Invisibleohmatic
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5580245 - 05/02/06 04:54 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

what im wondering .. i do not really know about the chemistry but hell why would you want to make your shrooms more potent ?

some nicely grown horse poo shrooms can blow my head off easily, no need to make them like three times more potent !


--------------------
:penis: MONOTUB tek :sun: HEATBOMB tek :penis:

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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: ohmatic]
    #5580538 - 05/02/06 08:56 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

Agreed, and you can't make them three times as potent. I know of nobody who has actually had this stuff work to increase potency. It sure didn't for me.
RR


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semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat

"I've never had a failed experiment.  I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work."
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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: ohmatic]
    #5580573 - 05/02/06 09:20 AM (15 years, 17 days ago)

why?  the same reason i drive a sports car for my 3-minute commute to work on 40mph roads... i'm a guy :smile:

besides, its fun to play scientist and find out for myself even if the results are sub-par  :cool:  don't get me wrong, i respect RR's opinion above most, but there's so few people who have tried going about this in an intelligent way (or at least reporting back to us in an intelligent way!) and it makes a lot of sense to me that it could very well do at least "something"

i still havent heard of a single person who tried using pure tryptophan as an additive either, yet lots who use additives with high tryptophan concentrations who do see noticable differences... and i'm more interested in that route than the tryptamine hcl route.


Edited by creamcorn (05/02/06 11:29 AM)


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OfflineNeoQ
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5581548 - 05/02/06 03:48 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

why wouldn't anyone want shrooms 3x more potent? Just eat less and still get fucked up and have left overs for friends.

We all have problems of not having enough shrooms:)

After I do this I will report back.


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OfflineNeoQ
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Ducktoe69x]
    #5581652 - 05/02/06 04:35 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Quote:

Ducktoe69x said:
--LOOK HERE its only $11 for 5g of 99% instead of 98% for $37!!!!!!!--
http://www.coleparmer.com/catalog/product_view.asp?sku=8835973






I tried to order from them....but I got a email today that said we do not ship to residental areas. And they check before hand. So don't bother buying it from them.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5581804 - 05/02/06 05:24 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

just a tip in the future.  don't follow links to chemical suppliers from the boards here.  there's a thing called "http referer" where your web browser tells the site you're visiting what link you came from.  its quite often tracked to determine what advertising might have been effective, what search engines customers used to find the place, etc.  in ordering a potentially shadey chem like tryptamine, you probably don't want your referer to point to this thread for them to find only to come back here and look and see what you intend on using it for... instead when you're ready to order stuff, type in the address manually, search for the item from their front page, so they can't see where you came from! :smile:

im not saying thats why they might have denied your order, but its just good advice to follow in the future.  in fact its good advice for everyone to follow, and as good practice we shouldn't even be posting direct links to grey-area products... even a few hits from nosy folks clicking on the links for "shroomery.org" to be showing up in their logs and that might catch some unnecessary attention...


Edited by creamcorn (05/02/06 05:33 PM)


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OfflineNeoQ
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5581884 - 05/02/06 05:43 PM (15 years, 16 days ago)

yeah agree. next time people should include a note that says type it manually. I use to have websites and I could see where they came from. But I don;t think that was the reason they denied me.


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InvisibleZen Peddler
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5584054 - 05/03/06 01:24 AM (15 years, 16 days ago)

Didnt Gartz do this years ago? And didnt he find that at a certain level L-tryptophan and trytamines actually inbihited potency?


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OfflineDucktoe69x
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Zen Peddler]
    #5641805 - 05/17/06 02:44 PM (15 years, 1 day ago)

If you put more than the "Updated" PF Tek suggests, then it will dwarf the shroomies (whats the fun in that). If you add anything up to but not more, it is said it will increase psilocin. It sounds like a good idea, but If you have a large enough chamber, just inoculate like 24 jars instead of 12 and have a lot more growth!

Link for a large, inexpensive, fully automated fruiting chamber!
|
|
V


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Offlineeclipse
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: NeoQ]
    #5892532 - 07/23/06 11:37 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

beofre anyone triesthis you should read this thread
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/5840949/an/0/page/0

great read


--------------------
All that is now
All that is gone
All thats to come
And everything under the sun is in tune
But the sun is eclipsed by the moon.

PF


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: eclipse]
    #5892886 - 07/24/06 01:59 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

> you can't "eyeball" 100mg

Sure you can. If you have a scale that weighs grams accurately just divide 1 gram into 10 even piles and you have 100mg.

> cheaper way to go about all this might be to load your substrates up with tryptophan instead.

Nope won't work. Possibly a fairly minimal increase, but very small. Tryptophan is highly regulated and not subject to increase by substrate supplementation. I have plenty of references if anyone's interested, or you could check out my many posts in advanced on the topic.

> there's next to no mention of tryptophan on these forums (including advanced).

There's been many, many discussions of it in advanced. Search my posts in advanced for about a dozen threads on the subject. Your numbers are interesting, but that overlooks the fact that only a tiny portion of tryptophan that's incorporated into psilocybin comes from the substrate. Like all amino acids the vast majority is produced by the organism rather than being absorbed from the substrate.

> beofre anyone triesthis you should read this thread

Thanks. There's also quite a few other threads on the same topic.

So anyway... Here's the definitive answer to all your questions about this subject.

Code:

Incorporation of Labelled Precursors into Psilocybin
-----------------------------------------------------

"Dilution"
(Spec. activity of precursor/
Precursor introduced spec. activity of psilocybin)
------------------------------------------------------
L-Tryptophan-H^3 132
Tryptamine-C^14 33
N-Methyltryptamine-H^3 2
N,N-Dimethyltryptamine-C^14 31
Psilocin-H^3 6
DL-4-OH-Tryptophan-H^3 >500
------------------------------------------------------
The results (Table) show that 4—OH-tryptophan in contrast to tryptophan
(I) does not function as a precursor. Tryptamine (II) which is readily
formed from tryptophan by P. cubensis (3) serves as a better precursor of
psilocybin than tryptophan. N—Methyltryptamine (III) is a still better
progenitor of psilocybin but N,N-dimethyltryptamine (IV) is rather poorly
incorporated as judged from the dilution figures. However, if the poor
absorption of this compound by the fungus (less than 5%) is taken into
account, the high dilution factor does not make it an unlikely
intermediate. Psilocin (V) is effectively converted into psilocybin.
4-Hydroxytryptamine—C^14 is also incorporated into psilocybin but the
introduction of this compound led to the formation of one or two other
minor products not normally detectable in the cultures. Thus, it may be
questioned if this route via 4-hydroxytryptamine is normally occuring in
the fungus.




So there you go. I encourage people to experiment with this though. I'll post the follow up paper to that one in a bit if anyone's interested.


-FF


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fastfred]
    #5892900 - 07/24/06 02:01 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)



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