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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: campinman]
    #5567155 - 04/28/06 04:29 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

nope, you're not way off, you're right on.

on the other hand, tryptophan is sold over the counter all over the place.  it'd be unbelivabley easy to drop an extra 50 or 100mg in, rather than search out exotic grains like the one you mention that i've never heard of :smile:

edit again: ohhh... keenwa = quinoa.  d'oh, nutritiondata doesn't have tryptophan data for it to compare...


Edited by creamcorn (04/28/06 04:58 PM)


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Offlinecaboomers
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567250 - 04/28/06 05:19 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

tryptamine in wbs? shaken??


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Offlineqwon
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567282 - 04/28/06 05:33 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

'tryptophan is sold over the counter all over the place.' - but is it isolated?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: qwon]
    #5567364 - 04/28/06 06:04 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

you bet. see here for example... note certificate of analysis. also note 100 grams bulk powder for $35. just from a quick google....


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: qwon]
    #5567372 - 04/28/06 06:06 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

well I spawn to poo. So couldnt you just well do the math for wet manure then when softening the hpoo on stove to break up all chunk just throw the tryptophan in then. then pasteurize. I guess you could put it in your jars as well but for those doing bulk that little amount added to jars is nothing compared to the total sub bulk weight when spawned. what do you think and I think this has been talked about in the advanced a lot but I am not sure


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5567415 - 04/28/06 06:20 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

sure.  the point is to add the tryptomine or tryptophan to your substrate.  its really pretty simple :smile:  you can get it in there more evenly if you dissolve it in water first.  so take BRF 1/2pt jars out of the equation here, thats pretty well irrelevant, was just used as a basis for comparison.  anywhere you're adding water to your substrate in whatever recipe or tek you use, simply add in the tryptomine/tryptophan to the water.  mix well.  use "spiked" water as normal in place of regular water.  done and done.


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Offlinevintage_gonzo
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5567500 - 04/28/06 06:42 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

but whats the ratio? if i was spawing wbs to 10 pounds of poo how would i know how much tryptophan to use?


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: vintage_gonzo]
    #5567566 - 04/28/06 07:00 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

i dont know somebody throw a quarter cup of BRF onto a scale and tell us how much it weighs. if we know 100mg per quarter cup is good, figure out a ratio by dry weight, apply ratio to whatever the dry weight of your substrate (spawn + poo, so in your case a little over 10lbs) and you're good to go. i don't have a scale handy or i'd tell you straight out...

it would seem too little is still a hell of a lot better than none. too much isn't harmful to an extent but is wasteful because there's going to be a point where only so much is used (like the vitamin analogy a few posts back). its not that sensitive of a formula we're coming up with here...


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OfflineRadioethiopia
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5568306 - 04/28/06 10:14 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Now who here has actually done this and seen the same results as the study? If anyone can back that up with their own experience, I'll order some Tryptamine HCL before I start any new cakes! Tripling the potency is an unbelievable benefit from something so simple!


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Offlinebuckallyall
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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: Radioethiopia]
    #5568720 - 04/29/06 12:02 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

What if you put it in a LC??


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Re: Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: buckallyall]
    #5571054 - 04/29/06 07:07 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

putting it in an LC is pretty damn well pointless. myc in a lc barely produce any alkaloids in the first place, they begin to produce them when they're a little "older" maybe 10 days-2 weeks in. they might still take advantage of it and produce slightly more alkaloids, but still way less than a typical mushroom. and considering you dont eat myc out of an LC (if you're any sort of normal person) whats the point? LC is for starting up spawn/substrate/jars/etc. the stuff is "food" so its not like you're gonna get jacked up super-buff ripped myc LC ready to potent up the place when they hit the jars... you need it in your jars or substrate for them to use while they're growing later.


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hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: creamcorn]
    #5571552 - 04/29/06 09:36 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I went to the store and could not find any of the mentioned additives to make the mushrooms more potent. The store told me they are not allowed to sell either product anymore but did suggest this product which is the same thing hydroxytryptophan. The difference being that hydroxytryptophan turns into tryptophan once consumed..

So.. Can one use hydroxytryptophan instead?

Has anyone ever heard anything on hydroxytryptophan?

THanks


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5572212 - 04/30/06 12:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

its a bit more complicated then that anyway for spawning poo unless your using a lot of coir and vermiculite. see you might say hey I have X weight of poo so I need X amount of tryptophan. Well my method is to warm in on the stove. Put in collander rotate around and throw vermiculite in. Hence throwing off the amount of tryptophan additive levels Probably considerably. if you were to wet poo with a pre-set amount of tryptophan then add vermiculite and coir to hit the right saturation point that would work. otherwise you would have to weight your water and adjust your water to the right tryptophan levels that way unless it has some sort of bonding ability to the poo it would not matter how much you washed down the drain it would still be the amount you were aiming for which is X.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573181 - 04/30/06 05:21 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

the store is wrong. they're allowed to sell it they just choose not to perhaps. tryptophan is in a huge percentage of the foods you eat. without it, you would die. its an amino acid required for human life, but not synthesized by humans. i promise its not illegal or never will be. it is true that straight isolated tryptophan was a prescription drug at a point but not so now; it can be found much more commonly. tryptamine isn't going to be sold simply over the counter in a meant-for-human-consumption form. hydroxytryptophan is 5-htp. not what you want here. while it has a similar effect in humans as tryptophan (both being precursors to seratonin production, 5-htp actually being a step closer than tryptophan) you've gone a chemical step "too far" for psilo production as far as i know. yeah if you're buying it as a suppliment for human conumption its as good as the same if not better, but mushrooms aren't people. somebody please correct me if i'm wrong but i'm no chem guru here, but i believe psilo* is a 4-hydroxy and you'd have to some how "un-hydroxy" the 5-htp to get it back to a point where it could be used to produce psilo* and things just don't work that way. whereas tryptophan/tryptomine are not "hydroxolated" and can much easier be used as a building block for the good stuff... i know thats way oversimplifying things and i only have a basic intuitive understanding but i don't think adding 5-htp to your substrate is going to do squat. see the earlier link i pasted. you can certainly buy it mail-order and its not anything special. you'd be lucky to find it at a local store, despite that its pretty much an "over the counter" suppliment its still pretty much a specialty item... if you do find tryptophan, it will be called "l-tryptophan" and probably be amongst the body building stuff, along with your typical protien shakes and whatnot. its also been used as a sleep aid (the prescription version).


Edited by creamcorn (04/30/06 05:45 AM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5573247 - 04/30/06 05:50 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

nope, it really is that simple.  vermiculite and coir are there to give your mix a certain "texture" and airiness perhaps, but they dont provide "food" for the mushrooms (well... coir can to an extent, but that's not its purpose.)  think about the portion of your substrate that will actually be consumed - the poo itself, the grain spawn, etc.  that's what you're trying to "adjust" by adding extra tryptophan in.  got nothin' do do with your verm or coir or casing or ph buffer or any other stuff you add in or on top.

again, this isn't a sensitive formula or ratio here.  we're talking a food suppliment.  some is better than none.  too much is not bad, just wasteful.  regardless the semantics and how you want to weigh things out and figure your numbers, if you're adding some, you're likely to see a benefit to an extent, end of story.  it would be my suspicion based on this whole theory that since conventional wisdom says poo gives more potent yields, there's already a higher level of tryptophan naturally occuring.  so perhaps the amounts you need to add are less, being that there's going to be a "saturation" point where adding more isn't going to help more, the mushrooms can only use so much.

no need to overcomplicate things and bog us down with irrelevance... just try and understand how this works... we're talking about a protien here, something in eggs, in meats, in grains, etc.  we're talking about increasing the percentage that it exists naturally, only to be sure the mushrooms have more than enough of the "tools" they need to produce alkaloids.  its not complicated and doesn't require this much over-thinking  :cool:


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573311 - 04/30/06 07:58 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

ok.. that was a lot of good info.. enough for me to be even more confused and say just forget it.. i have tried an experiment.. I will share my conclusion if it turns out to be notable..

thanks


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: fozi]
    #5573395 - 04/30/06 09:40 AM (15 years, 1 month ago)

One of the easiest sources of natural triptophans is seaweed, and cubes will grow very well on it when you mix it in with manure/straw. You can collect it by the truckload at the beach if you live near one. However, after a year of experimenting with different additives, I stopped because I could see no actual evidence that any of the substances served as a precursor to higher potency.
RR


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OfflineJSshroom
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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #5573754 - 04/30/06 01:24 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

I get what your saying and I was not trying to "Bog us down with irrelevence" I was just saying that if you wanted to do controlled experiments of tryptophan additive then you would have to match the tryptophan to the water content added NOT the poo. Because when straining the poo there goes the additive unless you add a certain amount of water that oversaturates and you use coir and vermiculite to hit the right level of saturation.

Now on with this discussion.
Roger rabbit there is a guy on here that did some coffee and seaweed grows that were killer on growth. I do not know about potency but there were rhizos growing on the plastic container above the casing and Pinning.


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5573928 - 04/30/06 02:35 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

well if we want to do controlled experiments, we do it with something simple and straight forward like PF jars fruited as plain cakes.  kind of like how the original tryptamine theory was tested... and where we started back at the top of this thread - it veered off topic there as folks were asking if it could be used with other growing methods.  keep it simple as possible.  control jars with no tryptophan versus jars with some (perhaps different amounts to find the best ratio).  if it works there its reasonable to say that it will work with other growing methods.  the proportions and means of adding it to your substrate will differ and need to be tweaked, sure, but its not neccessary (nor wise) to do  control experiment with a more complicated grow that involves more steps, ingredients, and variables, and that by nature is already bulk and can't be reproduced many times to confirm as easily as with some plain ol pf jars...  (although if you're in a situation where you can rattle off a dozen or two 5lb poo grows as easy as making up and fruiting as many pf jars, more power to you!  :thumbup: :cool:)

i see what you're saying about figuring out ratios for adding it to poo and that its not going to be quite so straight forward.  we'll have to come up with a clever way to get a known amount well distributed within the poo is all.  we can figure out something.  :cool:

seaweed on the other hand is no problem.  i'm on an island right now!


Edited by creamcorn (04/30/06 02:49 PM)


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Re: hydroxytryptophan & Make shrooms 3 times more potent with Tryptamine HCL [Re: JSshroom]
    #5574200 - 04/30/06 04:11 PM (15 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

JSshroom said:
Now on with this discussion.
Roger rabbit there is a guy on here that did some coffee and seaweed grows that were killer on growth. I do not know about potency but there were rhizos growing on the plastic container above the casing and Pinning.




I remember those well. They were mine.
RR


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