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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Mandatory Military Service?
#5559972 - 04/26/06 07:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The more I think about this, the more I favor it. 2 years at the age of 18, men and women. Little or no pay.
What are your guys' thoughts?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5559977 - 04/26/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Not a chance in hell.
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Redstorm]
#5560026 - 04/26/06 07:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Any countries do it successfully? And would you want it?
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5560029 - 04/26/06 07:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I think Greece does it.
I would hate that. I am not built for military service, as I have health problems.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Redstorm]
#5560082 - 04/26/06 08:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Terrible idea. Conscripts suck. They ruin morale. Aside from that, you should only be drafted in the direst of emergencies. It is, otherwise, slavery.
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Redstorm]
#5560092 - 04/26/06 08:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am 100% for it. We have too many rich fucks and pussies, they need some reality in their lives. And I say for the service we should get free fucking college.
Actually some1 proposed a bill like that. Only it also said people can do community service for 2 years or military for 2 years and then go to college for free.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5560292 - 04/26/06 08:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: The more I think about this, the more I favor it. 2 years at the age of 18, men and women. Little or no pay.
What are your guys' thoughts?
I think that putting a guy like me in the army would be a huge tactical error, as I would almost surely use whatever power the government gave me against the government at some point.
I could just see it now: Quietly moving my way up the ranks, always being a good soldier, but always remembering my true purpose. Carefully biding my time and making secret alliances with the other officers...
Then, as soon as they promote me to General, BAM! Military coup.
Now, everybody works in spaceship factories at gunpoint, sports are illegal, and scientists are the richest people on earth. All bureaucrats will be forced into a rocket that will be shot straight into the sun. All people below a certain level of intelligence will be gassed. Welcome to DoctorJ's America, bitch.
Edited by DoctorJ (04/26/06 09:26 PM)
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5561076 - 04/26/06 11:28 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I want to truly br free!!!!! (which insludes my choice to induce sacraments into my body) and not having to apart of some brainwashing army against my will
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WhiteRabbitt
Stranger


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5561113 - 04/26/06 11:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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This would give me an excuse to join, since I want to but am too much of a pussy as of now.
-------------------- You gotta jump and swing up to hit me in the knees.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: WhiteRabbitt]
#5561181 - 04/26/06 11:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Many countries do this now.
Austria Belarus Bermuda Brazil Bulgaria Chile China Croatia Cyprus Denmark Egypt Finland Germany Greece Israel South Korea ............................ Ukraine, Venezuela.
I would support it. Everyone should do service. Its good for you.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Konnrade
↑↑↓↓<--><-->BA



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5561193 - 04/27/06 12:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Gijith said: Any countries do it successfully? And would you want it?
Switzerland does it. And every man who has served in the military keeps his gear. They can be called up and mobilized in time of need.
That's why hitler had no interest in invading switzerland. Their army could have mobilized rapidly and kicked germany's ass right out of their country.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing
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BatCountry
Wanderer


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Konnrade]
#5561996 - 04/27/06 08:45 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Actually Hitler marche dright through switzerland but didnt fuck with them at all because they had all his cash,
But no required military service should only be used when absolutley necessary, not to "enrich our youth" all it will do is create a bunch of fucked up bitter men in their late 20's who wanted to be a teacher but now cant because of an unstable mental condition brought on either by war or by an extrenuous basic training, or someone who wated to be a doctor but now cant because they lost their arm in an unjust, undeclared war advocated by a bunch of greedy pretentious lying fucks.
-------------------- Why Should I take Your Bad Trip? -Ken Kesey
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: BatCountry]
#5562017 - 04/27/06 08:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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LOL just because a country has mandatory military service does not mean they have to have wars with everyone. Whens the last time Switzerland fought a war?
And if you cant handle basic training, your a pussy. Thank Darwin.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5562056 - 04/27/06 09:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I would be 100% in favour of mandatory military service for men AND women, starting at age 17. Far too many teens graduate from high school and have no direction or structure to their life. In retrospect, joining the Navy was one of the smartest things I ever did...not only did it help me easily find a job after I was discharged, it provided valuable survival skills, every day skills that every bachelor should know...like how to iron a shirt, shine shoes, cook a meal... How to command respect from others, How to shoot...Hell, the list is endless, and that was only 4 years.
Any that have seen me post here, can verify that it has not made me just another "jarhead" willing to mindlessly die for my country. If anything, it has helped form what I think and who I am today.
I agree with what was stated...If you can't handle basic training, you're a pussy.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
Last seen: 1 year, 2 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5562106 - 04/27/06 09:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Don't be so bigoted. Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Just because you needed it, doesn't mean everyone needs it.
Having an army of unwillingly conscripted soldiers is begging for a military coup.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5562113 - 04/27/06 09:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Terrible idea. Conscripts suck. They ruin morale. Aside from that, you should only be drafted in the direst of emergencies. It is, otherwise, slavery.
It's slavery regardless of the circumstances.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562134 - 04/27/06 09:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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but its your country. Its your duty to serve your country. Its not like they are shipping you to Mexico to serve in their military...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562149 - 04/27/06 09:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
but its your country.
What does this mean?
Quote:
Its your duty to serve your country.
Why?
Quote:
Its not like they are shipping you to Mexico to serve in their military...
...
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562172 - 04/27/06 09:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Your country - you are a part of it. It is responsible for you - you are responsible for it. Your supposed to defend it - It is supposed to defend you.
Granted, the way the US is run today, mandatory military service would probably be a bad thing with all the bullshit wars. However, it could also be a great thing for the US, because EVERYONE would have to serve, including the children of those who run the place. Get a senators son out there and it might change his opinion about who we should fight next.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562181 - 04/27/06 09:42 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Terrible idea. Conscripts suck. They ruin morale. Aside from that, you should only be drafted in the direst of emergencies. It is, otherwise, slavery.
It's slavery regardless of the circumstances.
Do you see pubic school as slavery?
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5562183 - 04/27/06 09:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said: Don't be so bigoted. Just because it worked for you, doesn't mean it will work for everyone. Just because you needed it, doesn't mean everyone needs it.
Having an army of unwillingly conscripted soldiers is begging for a military coup.
Please name a country with mandatory military service that has had a military coup as I am not aware of any.
And no, it won't work for everyone..but it will work for the extremely vast majority.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562233 - 04/27/06 09:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Your country - you are a part of it.
If true, so what?
Quote:
It is responsible for you - you are responsible for it.
So you've said. The question was 'why?'
Quote:
Your supposed to defend it - It is supposed to defend you.
Saying something enough times doesn't make it true. Why am I obliged to defend 'my' country?
Quote:
Granted, the way the US is run today, mandatory military service would probably be a bad thing with all the bullshit wars. However, it could also be a great thing for the US, because EVERYONE would have to serve, including the children of those who run the place. Get a senators son out there and it might change his opinion about who we should fight next.
I'm sure they'd be right on the front lines and not manning the desks in Washington.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562242 - 04/27/06 10:02 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Do you see pubic school as slavery?
I view the taxation that funds public schools as slavery. Clarify what you're asking, please. What aspects of public schools? I'll preempt your response by saying that the case of public schools is substantively different than that of conscription, and so any analogy you try to draw may be flawed.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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EvesApple
civillydisobedient


Registered: 04/18/06
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562256 - 04/27/06 10:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Take out the word "military" and I think you've got a good idea!
-------------------- Turn off your mind, relax and float down stream It is not dying...It is not dying Lay down all thought, surrender to the void It is shining...It is shining That you may see the meaning of within It is being...It is being
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562279 - 04/27/06 10:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
Do you see pubic school as slavery?
I view the taxation that funds public schools as slavery. Clarify what you're asking, please. What aspects of public schools? I'll preempt your response by saying that the case of public schools is substantively different than that of conscription, and so any analogy you try to draw may be flawed.
I'm not so sure how different it is. Both are a learning experience, Both are forced.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562298 - 04/27/06 10:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
I'm not so sure how different it is. Both are a learning experience, Both are forced.
Compare how many kids have died since school started in september, versus our military casualties, and you'll see a big difference.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562309 - 04/27/06 10:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said: Saying something enough times doesn't make it true. Why am I obliged to defend 'my' country?
Because you choose to live in it. Take personal responsibility. I'm not saying go fight for "democracy" in a foreign land. I'm saying defend your country - because the people in it are your people. Your family, friends, associates... You have the responsibility to do what you can to defend your country.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

Registered: 07/30/02
Posts: 1,364
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562324 - 04/27/06 10:30 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm not so sure how different it is.
The differences I had in mind were that:
(1) mandatory military service would apply to those we consider adults whereas public schooling applies to those we consider minors. The discussion of minors and their rights is a very nebulous area.
(2) while there are alternatives to public schooling (private schools, home schooling, etc), there would presumably be no such alternative(s) to mandatory military service.
Quote:
Both are a learning experience, Both are forced.
So, out of curiosity (and in the interest of saving both you and I a few pages of beating around the bush), are you for or against slavery? If you're for it, that's totally your prerogative, but I'd just like to encourage you to have the decency to be open about it. If you're ever taking a class that discusses slavery make sure to point out that you only think slavery is wrong in some cases. If you're ever casually discussing the 13th Amendment with a friend, make sure to point out that you really don't like that it places such a blanket prohibition on slavery -- tell the friend that slavery should be encouraged in quite a few situations!
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Last seen: 16 years, 7 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: badchad]
#5562332 - 04/27/06 10:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said:
I'm not so sure how different it is. Both are a learning experience, Both are forced.
Compare how many kids have died since school started in september, versus our military casualties, and you'll see a big difference.
But thats what I'm saying would be different, the conflicts that are chosen to engage in. People see war casualties today as an acceptable loss because the military is volunteer only. This public opinion would change drastically IF military service were mandatory. Look at the statistics of military casualties of the countries I posted that have mandatory service, I assure the numbers are much lower.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562350 - 04/27/06 10:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
I'm not so sure how different it is.
The differences I had in mind were that:
(1) mandatory military service would apply to those we consider adults whereas public schooling applies to those we consider minors. The discussion of minors and their rights is a very nebulous area.
(2) while there are alternatives to public schooling (private schools, home schooling, etc), there would presumably be no such alternative(s) to mandatory military service.
Quote:
Both are a learning experience, Both are forced.
So, out of curiosity (and in the interest of saving both you and I a few pages of beating around the bush), are you for or against slavery? If you're for it, that's totally your prerogative, but I'd just like to encourage you to have the decency to be open about it. If you're ever taking a class that discusses slavery make sure to point out that you only think slavery is wrong in some cases. If you're ever casually discussing the 13th Amendment with a friend, make sure to point out that you really don't like that it places such a blanket prohibition on slavery -- tell the friend that slavery should be encouraged in quite a few situations!
So, its OK for children to be "slaves" but not adults... besides you cant really call it slavery when you are paid to do it.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5562381 - 04/27/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I don't believe in manditory anything.
I think everyone should start or join a private millitia group.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5562392 - 04/27/06 10:56 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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At my advanced age, I can remember having to go to the selective service to register for the draft and then almost getting drafted based on the "birthday lottery". I had a low number that would have been drafted within a few months had Nixon not stopped the war. There was no college protection so I would have had to leave school to fight in a war that most people in this country and the world were opposed to.
Update 2006. We are almost out of volunteer troops in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.etc. and the need for troops in Iran Syria etc.etc.etc. is just around the corner. And, the reserves are stretched thin already with double tours. There are less people entering the reserves now based on what they see current reservists going through in Iraq.
Expect forced 2 year "patriotic service to uphold freedom" or some other catchy spin for a new draft. It will include the option for 2 year service starting at age 18-21 to be non-military but somehow they will be able to keep the numbers up in the military end of it through forced means or some kind of incentive like reduced time for risk of active duty. Do 1 year in Iraq or 2 years in Iowa. Or something like that.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Ancalagon
AgnosticLibertarian

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562399 - 04/27/06 10:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
So, its OK for children to be "slaves" but not adults.
Never said that, at all. Merely felt the need to point out that there were differences in the examples that made them not wholly analogous. As you (like many) seem to enjoy slow playing these arguments, I felt the need to cut you off a bit before it got any further. Nowhere did I condone public schooling.
Quote:
besides you cant really call it slavery when you are paid to do it.
The fundamental component of slavery is not the compensation or lack thereof for services rendered, but rather the force, the physical violence and compulsion. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to mow my lawn, and then after you're done I give you $15, were you not just enslaved? Going to repeat myself because this is the crux of the argument (and it's something that people on this board haven't been able to grasp for years): slavery is slavery because it is involuntary, not because the slave isn't justly compensated. Just compensation is itself completely subjective. What if I put a gun to someone's head and again forced him to mow my lawn, but this time after he was done I gave him a million dollars. You might praise my magnanimity and shout down anyone who thought to criticize my use of coercion. But what if the person that I coerced was an ascetic that placed no value on my million dollars?
One last time, slavery is slavery to the extent that it is involuntary, not to the extent that the enslaved is unfairly compensated.
-------------------- ?When Alexander the Great visted the philosopher Diogenes and asked whether he could do anything for him, Diogenes is said to have replied: 'Yes, stand a little less between me and the sun.' It is what every citizen is entitled to ask of his government.? -Henry Hazlitt in 'Economics in One Lesson'
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Ancalagon]
#5562412 - 04/27/06 11:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ancalagon said:
Quote:
So, its OK for children to be "slaves" but not adults.
Never said that, at all. Merely felt the need to point out that there were differences in the examples that made them not wholly analogous. As you (like many) seem to enjoy slow playing these arguments, I felt the need to cut you off a bit before it got any further. Nowhere did I condone public schooling.
Quote:
besides you cant really call it slavery when you are paid to do it.
The fundamental component of slavery is not the compensation or lack thereof for services rendered, but rather the force, the physical violence and compulsion. If I put a gun to your head and tell you to mow my lawn, and then after you're done I give you $15, were you not just enslaved? Going to repeat myself because this is the crux of the argument (and it's something that people on this board haven't been able to grasp for years): slavery is slavery because it is involuntary, not because the slave isn't justly compensated. Just compensation is itself completely subjective. What if I put a gun to someone's head and again forced him to mow my lawn, but this time after he was done I gave him a million dollars. You might praise my magnanimity and shout down anyone who thought to criticize my use of coercion. But what if the person that I coerced was an ascetic that placed no value on my million dollars?
One last time, slavery is slavery to the extent that it is involuntary, not to the extent that the enslaved is unfairly compensated.
That is true... one things for sure here, you are good at debate...
What about the idea that you consent joining simply by remaining a citizen of the country. You know the rule of the land and are an adult, you are under no obligation to remain a citizen. If you choose to do so, then you will have to serve.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Vvellum
Stranger

Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 10,920
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5562416 - 04/27/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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mandatory military service for civilians? no, I do not support that. I do, however, support a rule that says in order to be commander in chief you must have military experience.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Posts: 44,175
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562437 - 04/27/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Implicit consent is not consent at all, no matter how you dress it up.
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562752 - 04/27/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
EquilibriuM said: What about the idea that you consent joining simply by remaining a citizen of the country. You know the rule of the land and are an adult, you are under no obligation to remain a citizen. If you choose to do so, then you will have to serve.
Ok. What happens if you decline "citizenship"? What rights are you giving up? Do you get deported? If so, to where?
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5562760 - 04/27/06 12:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said: If you can't handle basic training, you're a pussy.
So what? Some people are pussies.
You want to make that a crime?
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Posts: 2,323
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5562789 - 04/27/06 01:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:
Rono said: If you can't handle basic training, you're a pussy.
So what? Some people are pussies.
You want to make that a crime?
No, If you cant handle it, do some other form of community service. Humanitarian aid or something...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5562799 - 04/27/06 01:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said:
Quote:
EquilibriuM said: What about the idea that you consent joining simply by remaining a citizen of the country. You know the rule of the land and are an adult, you are under no obligation to remain a citizen. If you choose to do so, then you will have to serve.
Ok. What happens if you decline "citizenship"? What rights are you giving up? Do you get deported? If so, to where?
Fuck if I know. It's just an idea. Could be that you loose the right to vote or you don't qualify for aid programs like welfare or social security...
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5562806 - 04/27/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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My point is that the vast majority of people could easily pass basic training, unless they were physically disabled, In which case they could still be in the administrative areas of the forces.
If some is so pathetic that they don't think they could complete basic training, then that person needs it the most in order to show them that they can. It would give that person the much needed confidence that they are apparently lacking. Sometimes all you need is the proverbial kick in the ass...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5562814 - 04/27/06 01:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said: My point is that the vast majority of people could easily pass basic training, unless they were physically disabled, In which case they could still be in the administrative areas of the forces.
If some is so pathetic that they don't think they could complete basic training, then that person needs it the most in order to show them that they can. It would give that person the much needed confidence that they are apparently lacking. Sometimes all you need is the proverbial kick in the ass...
AGREE 100%
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Vvellum]
#5562822 - 04/27/06 01:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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bi0 writes:
Quote:
I do, however, support a rule that says in order to be commander in chief you must have military experience.
Interesting stance.
Have you written your congresscritters asking them to introduce the necessary amendments to the constitution required to bring this about?
Phred
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5562921 - 04/27/06 01:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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How about requining all 18 year olds to spend 2 years as manditory child care workers?
I think it's more important to know how to raise a child than kill.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5562965 - 04/27/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Gijith said: The more I think about this, the more I favor it. 2 years at the age of 18, men and women. Little or no pay.
What are your guys' thoughts?
I think that putting a guy like me in the army would be a huge tactical error, as I would almost surely use whatever power the government gave me against the government at some point.
I could just see it now: Quietly moving my way up the ranks, always being a good soldier, but always remembering my true purpose. Carefully biding my time and making secret alliances with the other officers...
Then, as soon as they promote me to General, BAM! Military coup.
Now, everybody works in spaceship factories at gunpoint, sports are illegal, and scientists are the richest people on earth. All bureaucrats will be forced into a rocket that will be shot straight into the sun. All people below a certain level of intelligence will be gassed. Welcome to DoctorJ's America, bitch.
you sound like a nazi
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5562974 - 04/27/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who said anything about learning to kill?
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5562986 - 04/27/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said: Who said anything about learning to kill?
Most of these people think military = murder.
--------------------
http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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MrMolotov
Ganja Patrol


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: downforpot]
#5563063 - 04/27/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i can See program like Switzerland's mandatory top train but not force them to serve in a conflict. keep your equipment and you can be called on to defend your local area.
oops I'm really high need to spell check ha ha.
--------------------
OI OI OI
Edited by MrMolotov (04/27/06 02:35 PM)
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: downforpot]
#5563142 - 04/27/06 02:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I guess it's because I'm American. If you haven't noticed, that's exactly what it means here.
Maybe in canada "military" does mean "running a daycare".
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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DoctorJ


Registered: 06/30/03
Posts: 8,846
Loc: space
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: downforpot]
#5563149 - 04/27/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
downforpot said: you sound like a nazi
given the opportuntity, I would be. But at least I know this about myself and admit it. Most people would be nazis if geiven the opportunity, they just won't admit it to themselves. This is exactly my point: by forcing everyone to join the army, you are putting power in the hands of potentially dangerous people.
not to mention that government conscription is morally reprehensible.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Baby_Hitler]
#5563159 - 04/27/06 03:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Baby_Hitler said: I guess it's because I'm American. If you haven't noticed, that's exactly what it means here.
Maybe in canada "military" does mean "running a daycare".
You obviously don't know much about the military. I served 4 years and never learned how to kill people or anything like that. There are hundreds of jobs in the military that have nothing to do with killing anyone.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5563181 - 04/27/06 03:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Precisely...
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5563455 - 04/27/06 04:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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anyone thats actually been in the military before should know that the ultimate purpose of the military is to "kill people, blow shit up and break things."
in fact, that was a chant they had us doing in boot camp.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5563517 - 04/27/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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perhaps when we evolve past our reptilian brain we will see true peace...... earth belongs to life not contries prepared to fight others

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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5563631 - 04/27/06 04:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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haha thank god i never had to wear those glasses. my bootcamp "yearbook" looks like it could have been right out of the 50s.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


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Posts: 16,259
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Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: kotik]
#5564189 - 04/27/06 07:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
kotik said: anyone thats actually been in the military before should know that the ultimate purpose of the military is to "kill people, blow shit up and break things."
in fact, that was a chant they had us doing in boot camp.
Yes, The ultimate purpose is to prepare for war...and apparently your boot camp was much different than mine. Mine focused on teamwork, discipline and building confidence and pride in yourself and country, while being taught outdoor survival skills and helping each person decide what trade they would be most receptive to so that they can get the most out of their experience while there. It was tough and very difficult at times, but that's what made it worthwhile. We were never told to 'kill people' or 'blow shit up'
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5564328 - 04/27/06 07:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
We were never told to 'kill people' or 'blow shit up'
My, how far the Canadian military has fallen. Canada's military was once respected.
The purpose of the military is to kill people and break things. Any army "training" which fails to teach its n00bs how to accomplish either of those things is a pretty piss poor military.
Phred
--------------------
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Phred]
#5564560 - 04/27/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Any army "training" which fails to teach its n00bs how to accomplish either of those things is a pretty piss poor military.
Perhaps the "army' training is like that...but I was in the Navy.
And contrary to popular belief, military bullets are designed to maim..not kill...since it takes 2 men to tend to a wounded soldier, and none for a dead man. (at least that's the way it was explained to us)
Anyways...back to the topic.
Technically, I don't think it would HAVE to be military training, but cetainly some kind of mandatory civic work couldn't hurt...like even what was mentioned, social work, fire department, police...whatever
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5565310 - 04/27/06 11:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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anything mandatory = slavery
Edited by mungojerry (04/28/06 02:16 PM)
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5566032 - 04/28/06 05:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i wasnt in the army, i was in the air force. and i was the farthest thing from infantry as you could get.. but still i was never confused as to the purpose of the military.
Quote:
apparently your boot camp was much different than mine. Mine focused on teamwork, discipline and building confidence and pride in yourself and country
amazing, your boot camp was DEF much different than mine. i wouldnt be surprised if you told me you also all shared stories and feelings over a campfire at night as well.
I am interested to hear what you think the purpose of military is, if not to kill people and break things... ? Obviously a military that does neither of these well is not a military at all.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: kotik]
#5566068 - 04/28/06 06:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I am interested to hear what you think the purpose of military is, if not to kill people and break things... ? Obviously a military that does neither of these well is not a military at all.
Like I said, the "ultimate" purpose of the military is to prepare for war not necessarily to kill or blow shit up. Most soldiers will go their entire military career without ever having to shoot someone...do you dispute that? And like I also said...time wouldn't have to be served in the military...could also be served in the fire dept, police force, social service, coast guard...the list is endless
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5566093 - 04/28/06 06:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I definitely think military service, are for those who volunteer. The military is not for everyone. It can have negative effects mentally and physically, on people who do not belong there.
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
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Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5566138 - 04/28/06 07:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
And like I also said...time wouldn't have to be served in the military...could also be served in the fire dept, police force, social service, coast guard...the list is endless
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5566185 - 04/28/06 08:11 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Those particular jobs also require a certain type of person. Not everyone is cut out to be a cop (like myself, I was in the Marines, but do not have the composure of your typical cop), running into a burning building, checking up on former felons, or working for the Department of Transportation (Coast Guard)
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5566197 - 04/28/06 08:16 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Even better...it's good to get out of your comfort zone.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 7,460
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5566212 - 04/28/06 08:22 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I do not want to assume the wrong thing about your above post. Are you implying that the above jobs, would be beneficial to people by giving them experiences they would normally not have?
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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Rono
DSYSB since '01


Registered: 01/25/01
Posts: 16,259
Loc: Calgary, Alberta
Last seen: 10 months, 24 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5566295 - 04/28/06 08:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yes... I am saying that the vast majority of young people in their late teens need some sort of structure or guidance, as these are still developing years...
I've been thinking about this more since yesterday and I would like to expand on my original statement...
This would be my proposal...at the age of 17, or after graduating high school...IF the individual isn't in University or college..2 years of mandatory civil service would do the trick in my humble opinion. It would certainly solve alot of problems, and can't think of any that it would cause.
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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SirTripAlot
Semper Fidelis


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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5566617 - 04/28/06 11:04 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I agree with civil service.......but not federal service (military), trust me, I wish allot more men in my generation would go into the military, however, forcing someone to go into an institution were mens lives are at stake seems dangerous since morale and troop welfare would suffer.........
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
Edited by SirTripAlot (04/28/06 11:05 AM)
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Gijith
Daisy Chain Eater

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 2,400
Loc: New York
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5566980 - 04/28/06 01:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said: And like I also said...time wouldn't have to be served in the military...could also be served in the fire dept, police force, social service, coast guard...the list is endless
Or, even more appropriate, IMO, they could fill the jobs now managed by Halliburton and Lockheed.
-------------------- what's with neocons and the word 'ilk'?
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downforpot
Stranger

Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 5,715
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: SirTripAlot]
#5567157 - 04/28/06 02:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just give more incentives for military service than civil service.
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http://www.myspace.com/4th25 "And I don't care if he was handcuffed Then shot in his head All I know is dead bodies Can't fuck with me again"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5567342 - 04/28/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said:
Like I said, the "ultimate" purpose of the military is to prepare for war not necessarily to kill or blow shit up.
This is de facto absurd. Preparation can never be the "ultimate purpose." What you are preparing for is the "ultimate purpose." And not all war preparations involve killing and/or blowing shit up. Fucking ridiculous.
Quote:
Most soldiers will go their entire military career without ever having to shoot someone...do you dispute that?
Irrelevant to the discussion of what is or is not the "ultimate purpose."
Quote:
And like I also said...time wouldn't have to be served in the military...could also be served in the fire dept, police force, social service, coast guard...the list is endless
Whose "ultimate purpose" would apparently be in preparing for fires, crimes, coastal emergencies and ......social services. Nothing to do with actually acting on them, just preparing for them. Why, I'm preparing for something right now. But that is not my "ultimate purpose." My "ultimate purpose" is to eat dinner.
I cannot fucking believe that a so-called bunch of libertarians would espouse mandatory service of any kind. Oh no, wait, I forgot, we're not all libertarians here. Some of us are fascist socialists (redundant, I know). More hairy red ass exposure.
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kotik
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567421 - 04/28/06 04:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well said.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Rono
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567556 - 04/28/06 04:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
I cannot fucking believe that a so-called bunch of libertarians would espouse mandatory service of any kind. Oh no, wait, I forgot, we're not all libertarians here. Some of us are fascist socialists (redundant, I know). More hairy red ass exposure
There, there Zappa...it'll be okay..no need to get your panties in a twist. The original question was if we supported mandatory military service (remember that part?)...I said yes, then expanded on it. Try to keep this on topic instead of arguing about semantics for once...or was that the basis of your entire argument?
And yes...I am a socialist...your point?
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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zappaisgod
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Rono]
#5567686 - 04/28/06 05:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rono said:
Quote:
I cannot fucking believe that a so-called bunch of libertarians would espouse mandatory service of any kind. Oh no, wait, I forgot, we're not all libertarians here. Some of us are fascist socialists (redundant, I know). More hairy red ass exposure
There, there Zappa...it'll be okay..no need to get your panties in a twist. The original question was if we supported mandatory military service (remember that part?)
I sure do, and was one of the first responders. You can find it on page one. And I'll twist my panties all I want, Mary.Quote:
...I said yes, then expanded on it. Try to keep this on topic instead of arguing about semantics for once...or was that the basis of your entire argument?
I responded to your assinine "expansion" with a cogent destruction of your belief that "preparation" can even be considered an "ultimate purpose." A not surprisingly ridiculous assertion from you. Semantics? Look the word up.
Quote:
And yes...I am a socialist...your point?
Yes, I know. And my point, which I have made in another thread as well, is that it is not conservatives who are the fascists but, rather, the socialists. And you have helped to prove my point. Thanx.
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EquilibriuM
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567761 - 04/28/06 05:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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vintage_gonzo
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5567846 - 04/28/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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the bottom line is that we have a bunch of rich spoiled pussies in our country who have never had to do shit for themselves but get drug money. to add some structure to their life and make them try to see the bigger picture would help most of them. there is always a select few who are just retarded and will fold like a deck of cards at any possible sign of turmoil, but fuck them. this would help the majority of the US. name one reason why it would be bad? it works in other countries, why not ours? look what WWII did for our country. it DEVELOPED one of our greatest generations. that generation would not have been what it was had it not been for the trials and tribulations that war brought onto them. im not saying that mandatory service is the same as WWII but I do think that some of the structural lessons and personal lesson that would be learned in service would be similar.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5567855 - 04/28/06 06:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Just who the fuck are you to decide what is good for someone else? Fascist. Probably a left-tard too. Seems to go hand in hand.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567875 - 04/28/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I also take exception to the whole "greatest generation" bullshit. It was those assholes who, when they came to power, brought us the Vietnam fiasco. Just because they thought they could. Either that or they thought their kids could benefit from the "chracter-building" powers of war.
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kotik
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567883 - 04/28/06 06:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
look what WWII did for our country. it DEVELOPED one of our greatest generations.
hah, so you credit the entire generation because of the war they had to face? i fail to grasp your logic. because of the military / political atmosphere?
its a new age, and there is more information out there now. besides, if there IS any comparison to WW2 here.. we would be representing Germany.
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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zappaisgod
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: kotik]
#5567907 - 04/28/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Somehow you got a quote from VintageGonzo in a reply to me. I want to make damn sure that everyone knows that is not my quote.
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vintage_gonzo
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5567923 - 04/28/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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you seem to think that because there would be mandatory service that suddenly there would be all of these wars and every single person would see action. we are already in a pointless war and there is no draft, actually if there was a draft maybe troop levels in iraq would have been higher and we would be out of there by now. but im sure in your neocon brain the war is going perfect over there. now try to understand this, mandatory service would be for TWO FUCKING YEARS. if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool. some people would not like a draft, but for a vast majority it would do very good. why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5568047 - 04/28/06 07:13 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
vintage_gonzo said: you seem to think that because there would be mandatory service that suddenly there would be all of these wars and every single person would see action.
I don't think anything of the kind nor have I ever expressed anything remotely to that effect
Quote:
we are already in a pointless war
No we are not
Quote:
and there is no draft, actually if there was a draft maybe troop levels in iraq would have been higher and we would be out of there by now.
Brilliant military analysis by.......who again? Although there have been several military people who thought we should have more boots I have not heard of any military person supporting a draft. They all know that conscripts suck as soldiers.
Quote:
but im sure in your neocon brain the war is going perfect over there.
Only children ever think a war will go perfectly. I think it is going about as well as could have been expected, in some ways better, some ways worse.
Quote:
now try to understand this, mandatory service would be for TWO FUCKING YEARS.
Two too many, you fascist.
Quote:
if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool.
Fuck you, you flaming little........I have too many bans already to respond appropriately to this moronic attack by someone completely ignorant of me. Let's just say that I haven't been called a pussy to my face for quite some time. You, on the other hand have quite a big bitchy mouth for somebody who A. Doesn't know me and B. Is hiding behind a keyboard. So shut the fuck up.
Quote:
some people would not like a draft, but for a vast majority it would do very good.
Who the fuck are you to decide? Some 20 year old never done nothing or dealt with anything fool ready to tell everybody else how they oughta act? Kiss my ring. I got an idea. I'LL decide what's good for everybody else. Judging from your grammar and the content of your thought, I'm way more qualified than you.Quote:
Quote:
why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
So much stupidity here. Are people who join all fuckups? Do fuckups join? Is the harshness of bootcamp to help fuckups to improve or to weed them out? Do we want fuckups in the military? When there was a draft that is what we got in far too great a percentage, people who didn't want to be there.
In the end, you are a fascist who wants to dictate what other people should do. You will never win. We know what you are.
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vintage_gonzo
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5568167 - 04/28/06 07:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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first off the you was a general you all, it was not directed to you so you can calm down. secondly, im too tired from work to make a counter point yet, ill get to it tomorrow.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5568205 - 04/28/06 07:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I accept, personally and only personally, your seeming apology for this:
Quote:
"if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool."
Some other board members may not do the same
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kotik
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5569314 - 04/29/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool."
i agree, if you cant handle 2 years in the military, you are a fucking pussy. but also, there is a need for people who oppose the military, for the simple fact that they are needed for their alternative views.
that being said, i cant say im against mandatory service, because its a good idea. but the current administration (and probably all those to follow) are so corrupt, and fighting these rich men's wars, that mandatory military service would be a slap in the face to anyone outside of the top 5%
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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Lion
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: kotik]
#5569895 - 04/29/06 11:16 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I'll die before I learn to use a gun. I want no part of an organization that sends young men to die in the desert so American businesses will profit.
-------------------- “Strengthened by contemplation and study, I will not fear my passions like a coward. My body I will give to pleasures, to diversions that I’ve dreamed of, to the most daring erotic desires, to the lustful impulses of my blood, without any fear at all, for whenever I will— and I will have the will, strengthened as I’ll be with contemplation and study— at the crucial moments I’ll recover my spirit as was before: ascetic.”
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TheWay
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: kotik]
#5571055 - 04/29/06 05:07 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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makaveli8x8
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: TheWay]
#5572666 - 04/30/06 12:40 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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here's my thoughts on this subject, i would never fight in a war or attack in any kind for the simple idea that:
one of these attacks or wars is started because of a few idea's that are flawed.
nomatter what the reason to start one, we NEVER TRUELY know what happened to justifiy it. HOW can we go and kill people WITHOUT knowing WHY? the gov. might make up good storys about WHY. THEY may even believe it. BUT, we never truely know because the people who decide to attack DID NOT SEE IT.
we have eye witnesses that place murders at the scene and we don't KILL THEM we try everything we can usually to not kill them when bringing them in even if they have a gun and are shooting back.
these soilders go to iraq for instince and we are raiding their country and they assume the gov. we right about this country because they are shooting at us when we show up. I WOUNDER WHY.
we need to just stay the hell out of other peoples lifes(but the gov could never do such a thing because they love spreading slavery===$$$$)...and just worry about our borders...were we know a little better about whats going on ...somewhat. At least we can say we were defending ourselfs if anything happens.
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Fospher
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: DoctorJ]
#5572725 - 04/30/06 12:57 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
DoctorJ said:
Quote:
Gijith said: The more I think about this, the more I favor it. 2 years at the age of 18, men and women. Little or no pay.
What are your guys' thoughts?
I think that putting a guy like me in the army would be a huge tactical error, as I would almost surely use whatever power the government gave me against the government at some point.
I could just see it now: Quietly moving my way up the ranks, always being a good soldier, but always remembering my true purpose. Carefully biding my time and making secret alliances with the other officers...
Then, as soon as they promote me to General, BAM! Military coup.
Now, everybody works in spaceship factories at gunpoint, sports are illegal, and scientists are the richest people on earth. All bureaucrats will be forced into a rocket that will be shot straight into the sun. All people below a certain level of intelligence will be gassed. Welcome to DoctorJ's America, bitch.
Hahaha, that would be the worst country ever - I can see it now - just a bunch of intellectual numfucks sitting around, complaining and wondering why there's no one left to clean their streets, cook their Mickey D's, work for minimum wage, and protect their houses (muscle and intelligence dont often come in a package).
And for the record, mandatory military service would only work in developed, rich countries. In all other occasions the soldiers would be just used slaves to build military establishments for free.
And I'm glad that drafting is highly unpopular in the States. In a national emergency, such as a foreign nation invasion, yes, I would not only serve, but die for this country. But if, say, the draft were initiated as of today, I would burn my draft card the day I received it. I'm not dying for some non-existent WMDs, oil reserves, or any other horseshit the Bush Administration dishes out next.
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mungojerry
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Fospher]
#5575087 - 04/30/06 07:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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ok man there is nothing wrong with having pride for your country and if someone is attacking your country i see nothing wrong with defence but i think the military in general is a bit brain washing im speakin only from personal experience but the ppl ive know to go to the military came out being narrow minded conservative uptight douche bags.....i know some ppl out there feel the same way i do, that the miltiary state of mind sucks and that its the farthest thing away from expanding your mind and being peacful so why should we be forced out of our lives to some form of inprisonment?.....I AM FREE AS A FUCKIN BRID MAN and wouldnt trade my freedom for anything, i have no desire to learn about war tactics and how to fire a gun and work together......i hope that once we evolve to our next species of humans we will se no point to killing each other.....but i think right now we just got to much animal in us.... kill or be killed
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OJK
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5575234 - 04/30/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I am genuinely astounded by some of the views voiced in this thread.
I admit, there is a massive difference between compulsory service of any kind for children and adults. There is a potential argument for compulsory service of some kind for children.
If we can assume that most people accept the need for compulsory education for children, we should examine its purpose.
Why is education in many developed countries compulsory for children? Well, firstly, because the state recognises that children lack the mental ability to exercise true freedom of choice - i.e. the same reason children are often not granted the same rights as adults, such as being able to drive a vehicle or consume certain substances. The state decrees on behalf of those children that an education is in their own interest, as it divines the children are not in a position to decide whether or not they desire to be educated from an informed point of view.
Secondly, the state recognises children's partial autonomy from their parents. While it is often the legal duty of parents to in part educate their own children, that duty is limited in scope. The state recognises that children have rights independent of their parents. If their parents are judged by the state to be acting illegally towards their child by, for example, assaulting them, the state may remove the child from the parent's custody to protect the child's rights. On a wider level, therefore, the state proscribes mandatory child education as it recognises the right of the child to be educated to a certain level on a certain range of topics regardless of parental will, and it cannot guarantee that parents will provide a balanced education by themselves.
The state decides on the form that education should take by assembling a generally accepted curriculum that is seen as positive, helpful, informative, and generally in the child's best interests. However, the curriculum is also assembled to recognised the impressionableness of children. Generally, facts are only presented as facts where they are generally accepted as facts, and opinions are encouraged to be questioned.
On this level, then, it may be acceptable to include mandatory service of some kind. A period of work experience, for example, is fairly common, as it is generally accepted that the skills employed in the typical workplace will be of benefit to a child in later life. A period of military training would be unsuitable for many reasons, not least that it is not generally accepted that the skills of the military, inextricably mixed with violence as they are (and regardless of the justification of that violence or otherwise) as a result of the military's ultimate purpose (defence or aggression through violence) and violence has no place being taught to impressionable children, unable as they are to fully assess it's utility or justification.
So, there may be some argument for a short period of some kind of mandatory service for children of the sort that is generally regarded by society as positive and useful in nature (child care, social work, etc.) provided there is scope for the questioning of it's validity.
However, as soon as that child is legally regarded as an adult, there is absolutely no justification for compulsory education of any kind, regardless of what society deems positive. The very justification of compulsory child education is to provide a person with the relevant skills and knowledge to make decisions for themselves - otherwise it is nothing more than propagandist indoctrination and the very antithesis of freedomm and, indeed, education. To attempt to foist education on an adult is to destroy the only justification for compulsory education for children - the building of knowledge and intelligence to achieve true freedom of will.
In other words, to force adults to participate in any kind of mandatory service because it is perceived as being in their own best interests is the very destruction of freedom, regardless of how much it might in fact benefit them (or at least be seen to benefit them by society in general).
For the state to force a person of, say, inferior physical fitness and below-average social skills into a program of mandatory military service is utterly intolerable, even if the result is an athletic and socially confident individual. It is a perversion of freedom, for the attributes of fitness or confidence are not fundamentally or inherently positive, they are merely regarded as so by most of society. It is no more acceptable to force a recluse adult to develop social skills because having social skills is generally regarded as positive than it is to force an individual who enjoys taking drugs to stop taking drugs because it is generally regarded as positive to not take drugs, or to force an individual to not voice an opinion because that opinion is generally regarded as being objectionable.
It is of absolutely no interest to me how much other people may think I might benefit by serving in the army, and it is of similar levels of consequence. To force individuals to act in a certain way (with the exceptions of crime that harms others, and other such acts that harm the freedom of others)is an attack on freedom. To force individuals to act in a certain way because it is perceived that it will benefit them is no better. To force individuals to act in a certain way because it is perceived that that will change them, and that that change is regarded as positive by some kind popular will, is a desecration of freedom on a most fundamental level.
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Fospher
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5575245 - 04/30/06 08:29 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
i hope that once we evolve to our next species of humans we will se no point to killing each other...
It's too bad that the whole premise behind evolution is survival of the fittest.
Brute enforcement of law is necessary. If you don't see why wars are needed for our survival, perhaps you should pay more attention to the things around you. Should the militia or the police try to attempt to raise the awareness of serial killers, child molesters, and murderers, or to put them in a place where they can no longer cause harm to society? If you were in a bank hold up, and the robber just took your wallet, and everything in it, would you get up and tell the robber that there is no reason for violence or call the fucking cops/put a gun to his head at the nearest chance? You tell me what's more reasonable.
Quote:
i think the military in general is a bit brain washing im speakin only from personal experience
There's no need for bias opinions, the military does brainwash each and every recruit. You think that you don't need to do a great deal of convincing to tell someone to put a rifle in their hand, run across some field out of a trench, and start killing human beings for a reason he might not even agree with?
Quote:
i have no desire to learn about war tactics and how to fire a gun and work together
That I have no quarrel with, a consientious objector who believes in what he says is worth a million shit-talking chickenhawk yuppie fucks getting out of service for anal cysts.
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EquilibriuM
dream stalker

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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: OJK]
#5575409 - 04/30/06 09:13 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Odiumjunkie said: I am genuinely astounded by some of the views voiced in this thread.
I admit, there is a massive difference between compulsory service of any kind for children and adults. There is a potential argument for compulsory service of some kind for children.
If we can assume that most people accept the need for compulsory education for children, we should examine its purpose.
Why is education in many developed countries compulsory for children? Well, firstly, because the state recognises that children lack the mental ability to exercise true freedom of choice - i.e. the same reason children are often not granted the same rights as adults, such as being able to drive a vehicle or consume certain substances. The state decrees on behalf of those children that an education is in their own interest, as it divines the children are not in a position to decide whether or not they desire to be educated from an informed point of view.
Secondly, the state recognises children's partial autonomy from their parents. While it is often the legal duty of parents to in part educate their own children, that duty is limited in scope. The state recognises that children have rights independent of their parents. If their parents are judged by the state to be acting illegally towards their child by, for example, assaulting them, the state may remove the child from the parent's custody to protect the child's rights. On a wider level, therefore, the state proscribes mandatory child education as it recognises the right of the child to be educated to a certain level on a certain range of topics regardless of parental will, and it cannot guarantee that parents will provide a balanced education by themselves.
The state decides on the form that education should take by assembling a generally accepted curriculum that is seen as positive, helpful, informative, and generally in the child's best interests. However, the curriculum is also assembled to recognised the impressionableness of children. Generally, facts are only presented as facts where they are generally accepted as facts, and opinions are encouraged to be questioned.
On this level, then, it may be acceptable to include mandatory service of some kind. A period of work experience, for example, is fairly common, as it is generally accepted that the skills employed in the typical workplace will be of benefit to a child in later life. A period of military training would be unsuitable for many reasons, not least that it is not generally accepted that the skills of the military, inextricably mixed with violence as they are (and regardless of the justification of that violence or otherwise) as a result of the military's ultimate purpose (defence or aggression through violence) and violence has no place being taught to impressionable children, unable as they are to fully assess it's utility or justification.
So, there may be some argument for a short period of some kind of mandatory service for children of the sort that is generally regarded by society as positive and useful in nature (child care, social work, etc.) provided there is scope for the questioning of it's validity.
However, as soon as that child is legally regarded as an adult, there is absolutely no justification for compulsory education of any kind, regardless of what society deems positive. The very justification of compulsory child education is to provide a person with the relevant skills and knowledge to make decisions for themselves - otherwise it is nothing more than propagandist indoctrination and the very antithesis of freedomm and, indeed, education. To attempt to foist education on an adult is to destroy the only justification for compulsory education for children - the building of knowledge and intelligence to achieve true freedom of will.
In other words, to force adults to participate in any kind of mandatory service because it is perceived as being in their own best interests is the very destruction of freedom, regardless of how much it might in fact benefit them (or at least be seen to benefit them by society in general).
For the state to force a person of, say, inferior physical fitness and below-average social skills into a program of mandatory military service is utterly intolerable, even if the result is an athletic and socially confident individual. It is a perversion of freedom, for the attributes of fitness or confidence are not fundamentally or inherently positive, they are merely regarded as so by most of society. It is no more acceptable to force a recluse adult to develop social skills because having social skills is generally regarded as positive than it is to force an individual who enjoys taking drugs to stop taking drugs because it is generally regarded as positive to not take drugs, or to force an individual to not voice an opinion because that opinion is generally regarded as being objectionable.
It is of absolutely no interest to me how much other people may think I might benefit by serving in the army, and it is of similar levels of consequence. To force individuals to act in a certain way (with the exceptions of crime that harms others, and other such acts that harm the freedom of others)is an attack on freedom. To force individuals to act in a certain way because it is perceived that it will benefit them is no better. To force individuals to act in a certain way because it is perceived that that will change them, and that that change is regarded as positive by some kind popular will, is a desecration of freedom on a most fundamental level.
This is why America will soon fall.
This is why America is weak.
People are too scared, too weak minded, they fail to see the power of the collective.
-------------------- HELP!!!!!!!!!
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: EquilibriuM]
#5576176 - 05/01/06 01:36 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Why cant we have a good debate without bashing.....
The whole purpose of me bringing in evolution was to illustrate that we are animals, semi-civilized animals at that and was saying that far from now common sense would be in place of militia.....
but the fact of the matter is today their are a lot of killings, rapes, thefts etc. and some sort of enforcement is needed. As of now we do need a form of police, peace needs structure of some kind either by us or enforced by others. I'm not saying anarchy is the way to go. I don't oppose any military...i just think unless its an emergency I can live my life as i choose, being forced to think and join something against your will is wrong......
Patriotism is nothing more than loving where u live and we should defend it if it is threatened. America is way too strong to fall way way way to powerful, we enforce the world. America doesnt present any evidence of being the next Babylon, so many coutries have our backs.
but if i appose MANDATORY brain washing and a FORCED way to live and think I'm a "a consientious objector who believes in what he says is worth a million shit-talking chickenhawk yuppie fucks getting out of service for anal cysts. " You will never see me disrespect someone on this website, another tripper or any person who shows me the same respect. But i guess id fall into the category of those damn pot smokin tie die wearing hippies huh?
I'm nothing more than a guy who'd like to see peace my friend and the marine/army way of thinking is far from that in my experience. My opinion means dick, its not worth shit, however if my opinion changes peoples lives its a bit more significant but so far I don't have to change shit because someone in our government also feels that at 18 i have a choice what to do with my life
Eat some shrooms and try to see peace man it looks great
Edited by mungojerry (05/01/06 01:48 AM)
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5576217 - 05/01/06 01:54 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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"That I have no quarrel with, a consientious objector who believes in what he says is worth a million shit-talking chickenhawk yuppie fucks getting out of service for anal cysts"
There's no need for bias opinions
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guri
Master of theimprobablitydrive

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 576
Loc: PNWish.
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Gijith]
#5576237 - 05/01/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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in america at least as long you dont break the law you are free to do what you want. if you break the law the punishment more often then not is the taking of your freedom...jail time. and of course being in jail sucks because you do not get to do what you want to do. same thing would apply to any service that is mandatory. essentially for two years you are taking away a person right to choose how to live thier life. this is a form of punishment for which no crime was commited. what happens if somebody doesnt do there two years? do they go to jail because they felt there time was better served elsewhere?
yes im sure the military could provide a lot of support and structure into the lives of some people who need it most however many people do not need this structure. also by taking a couple years away from peoples lives they will miss many oppertunities that only existed for a short amount of time.. for example my brother straight out of highschool starting working at job that made him $150,000+ a year and 6 years later now makes even more money. however if he had went to college or joined the military the job field he is in now is really hard to get into and the skills he devolped in high school would have been useless two years later. remember two years is a long span of time and a lot can happen in it, think about how the world was in january 2000 then look at how much it had changed by december 2002? one minute we were glad to see the y2k didnt kill us all or send the world back to the stone age and now its terrorists . ahhh the good ole days....
all that aside how are we suppose to set a good example of freedom for the rest of the world to follow if when you turn 18(an adult) you essentially become a slave to society for two years? "Congraluations on graduating high school. whats your plans for your future?" " i dont know...Zee chancellor hasnt told me yet"
Edited by guri (05/01/06 02:25 AM)
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trunksan
PsyChicken


Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 291
Loc: UK, Hellas
Last seen: 10 months, 4 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: guri]
#5581798 - 05/02/06 03:22 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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I was a black berret/tank driver. Luckily only did 6 months while most people do 24.
Loved the physical training, had fun with the guys but generally I agree with the whole "taking away your freedom" idea. It was never my choice to be there and I gave away a lot of my rights by being there. Its over now and I'm glad!
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snoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: trunksan]
#5581950 - 05/02/06 04:09 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Military service teaches people how to work. You learn how to party and drink until 3am just to get up at 6am and do your regular shit. It teaches you how to be part of a team and work towards larger goals. It gives you good stories to tell later in life. It teaches you the responsibility that most people never learn in school.
There are lots of jobs in the military that don't require you to carry a weapon and/or kill people. Just look at the Navy and Air Force there are thousands of people there who have military type jobs and don't know squat about any kind of weapon system. In the Army alone the ratio of Pog's to infantry is about 10:1. Everyone in the military exists to support the minority of infantry soldiers. There are plenty of places you can send people that will help the soldiers conducting the business of the military and that those people who don't like being there can see the benefits of working hard and seeing the hard workers rewarded so that maybe they will leave the military with some kind benefit to society.
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mungojerry
free as a bird

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 3,598
Loc: Nappy Dub
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: snoopaloop53]
#5582460 - 05/02/06 06:25 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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if u like it cool but forcing it is wrong
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: mungojerry]
#5582536 - 05/02/06 06:39 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
mungojerry said: if u like it cool but forcing it is wrong
mungojerry is teh man
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Baby_Hitler
Errorist



Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 27,587
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 9 hours, 23 minutes
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: zappaisgod]
#5583356 - 05/02/06 09:40 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Mungojority rules.
-------------------- Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ (•_•) <) )~ ANTIFA / \ \(•_•) ( (> SUPER / \ (•_•) <) )> SOLDIERS / \
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum


Registered: 12/20/00
Posts: 3,322
Loc: Charm City
Last seen: 5 years, 3 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5585782 - 05/03/06 01:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
vintage_gonzo said: if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool. why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
From where I stand it is assholes like you who need to be weeded out of the gene pool. Clearly you are unable to think for yourself, and are too much of a baby to learn how to be a grownup without some douchebag drill sargeant brainwashing you into following orders and barking in your face like a rabid dog. You are entitled to your opinions but shame on you for trying to tell me that your violent militaristic goose-stepping fascist lifestyle is superior to mine and that I have no place in the gene pool. I am a peaceful God Loving man but I'm with Zappa if you tried to bring this shit to my face I would squash you.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: gluke bastid]
#5590422 - 05/04/06 03:10 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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In my opinion, the pussy here is the one who can't think for himself; is too scared to make mistakes; is too scared to learn from those mistakes; is so scared to live a life of unknowing, that they must have their life forced upon themselves by someone screaming in their face.
Talk about being a pussy; grow up and figure your own shit/life problems, and stop telling people how to live their lives; you are one person and you don't know shit about me, let alone the million others in this country.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: gluke bastid]
#5590434 - 05/04/06 03:14 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
vintage_gonzo said: if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool. why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
From where I stand it is assholes like you who need to be weeded out of the gene pool. Clearly you are unable to think for yourself, and are too much of a baby to learn how to be a grownup without some douchebag drill sargeant brainwashing you into following orders and barking in your face like a rabid dog. You are entitled to your opinions but shame on you for trying to tell me that your violent militaristic goose-stepping fascist lifestyle is superior to mine and that I have no place in the gene pool. I am a peaceful God Loving man but I'm with Zappa if you tried to bring this shit to my face I would squash you.
Haha, I should have read your post before posting mine Sort of repeated what you said.
I agree with your last sentence whole heartedly. I would fuck up anyone who tried to spout this shit off to me in person. And before anyone can ask me the question: Yes, I would die for my country if the situation was to arise. But there is a huge difference between an emergency/national threat-like draft (which is what I would have no problem joining), and 2 years forced service.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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Phred
Fred's son


Registered: 10/18/00
Posts: 12,949
Loc: Dominican Republic
Last seen: 9 years, 18 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5591569 - 05/04/06 08:33 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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vintage_gonzo, you receive a warning for flaming. Calling someone a fucking pussy violates the rules of the forum.
zappaisgod, you receive a ban for responding to vintage_gonzo's flame with one of your own.
I'm tired of receiving notifications about this little exchange. Even though gonzo claims his flame was a general one and not directed at anyone in particular, and even assuming zappa responded to the perceived flame with one of his own because he thought it was directed at him personally, the situation is not acceptable.
This kind of shit pisses me off. I expect both of you to comport yourselves with more dignity in the future.
Phred
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RandalFlagg
Stranger
Registered: 06/15/02
Posts: 15,608
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Phred]
#5591771 - 05/04/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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zappaisgod, you receive a ban
Zappa! No!!
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snoopaloop53
No BetterFriend. NoWorse Friend.

Registered: 01/20/05
Posts: 311
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: Syle]
#5599190 - 05/06/06 10:17 PM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
vintage_gonzo said: if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool. why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
From where I stand it is assholes like you who need to be weeded out of the gene pool. Clearly you are unable to think for yourself, and are too much of a baby to learn how to be a grownup without some douchebag drill sargeant brainwashing you into following orders and barking in your face like a rabid dog. You are entitled to your opinions but shame on you for trying to tell me that your violent militaristic goose-stepping fascist lifestyle is superior to mine and that I have no place in the gene pool. I am a peaceful God Loving man but I'm with Zappa if you tried to bring this shit to my face I would squash you.
Haha, I should have read your post before posting mine Sort of repeated what you said.
I agree with your last sentence whole heartedly. I would fuck up anyone who tried to spout this shit off to me in person. And before anyone can ask me the question: Yes, I would die for my country if the situation was to arise. But there is a huge difference between an emergency/national threat-like draft (which is what I would have no problem joining), and 2 years forced service.
See that's why you need the military sevice that way you don't have to die for your country. The military trains you to kill for your country and make that other poor sucker die for his
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Syle
Kenai Sigh


Registered: 10/16/05
Posts: 6,678
Loc: WA
Last seen: 10 months, 26 days
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Re: Mandatory Military Service? [Re: snoopaloop53]
#5600716 - 05/07/06 11:01 AM (17 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
snoopaloop53 said:
Quote:
Syle said:
Quote:
gluke bastid said:
Quote:
vintage_gonzo said: if you cant handle that then you are a fucking pussy who needs to be weeded out of the gene pool. why do you think they have boot camps for young fuckups? to add structure and get their spoiled ass in line.
From where I stand it is assholes like you who need to be weeded out of the gene pool. Clearly you are unable to think for yourself, and are too much of a baby to learn how to be a grownup without some douchebag drill sargeant brainwashing you into following orders and barking in your face like a rabid dog. You are entitled to your opinions but shame on you for trying to tell me that your violent militaristic goose-stepping fascist lifestyle is superior to mine and that I have no place in the gene pool. I am a peaceful God Loving man but I'm with Zappa if you tried to bring this shit to my face I would squash you.
Haha, I should have read your post before posting mine Sort of repeated what you said.
I agree with your last sentence whole heartedly. I would fuck up anyone who tried to spout this shit off to me in person. And before anyone can ask me the question: Yes, I would die for my country if the situation was to arise. But there is a huge difference between an emergency/national threat-like draft (which is what I would have no problem joining), and 2 years forced service.
See that's why you need the military sevice that way you don't have to die for your country. The military trains you to kill for your country and make that other poor sucker die for his
That's fine and dandy. But what is under question here is a mandatory military service. And that is what I disagree with. I disagree with people on this board thinking that they know what's best for other people.
-------------------- https://kenaisigh.bandcamp.com/ <- Just completed the 2021 RPM challenge for February - An EP in one month (5 songs or 20 minutes). Check it out!
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