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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: Basilides]
    #5559670 - 04/26/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And I'd like to think that he is surrounded by blonde supermodels. As for the "origin" I am not so sure.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: Veritas]
    #5560283 - 04/26/06 08:45 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

If many die and civilazation collapses who left could doubt in God?




What if only the atheists and agnostics and Buddhists survive the apocalypse? Why would those remaining suddenly have faith in God, if they had not before? If some Christians survive, but many die, why would those remaining all have faith, after their "saved" loved ones have been killed?

What is likely to change after a disaster is that the survivors would be primarily concerned with survival, and not religion.





Because when the apocolypse comes it willbe at God's will, and if it is of God's will then he will provide for those with faith. And when it happens even the atheists will know this. It will happen as it was written as well. God may be insubstantial now, but when the end of this age ends, he will hide no longer.

"This is the patience and faith of the Saints" Revelations


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5560334 - 04/26/06 08:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

We have no way of knowing who actually authored such "predictions" like the End of Times, which in my view are more symbolic of one's individual death and the end of one's experience in the world, not God showing off in a massive show of omnipotence by shutting down existence. Humanity will go down like the dinosaurs eventually. God has nothing to gain by calling "Cut!" on His dream.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: Basilides]
    #5560351 - 04/26/06 08:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Not Muhammad. In my opinion Imam Ali co-constructed early Islam and created a balance between esoteric Truth and Muhammad's obvious fundamentalism.




Muhammod preached his teachings and I'm sure they were not what is in parts of the Koran. That said I'm sure he was a prophet, and heard the word of God.

In revelations it says something like "In christ is the spirit of prophecy" I'm inclined to believe this reading the old testament prophets exibiting the same qualities. Muhommad was humble almost to a fault, his religion shows this and is taken to a fault. There must always be balance.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5560389 - 04/26/06 09:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Do you believe in the flood that all ancient civilizations remember? Ehh, sybolism as well to you I suppose. Oh well, keep teh faith in God, when it happens the symbolism will make sense in that it relates to real events. I serisoulsy doubt little horses with wings and scorpian tails will be stinging us for 9 months in real life but they stand for a real event.

What He has to gain is ridding the world of the virus of humanity before we destroy the earth beyond repair. Population control. Nature always maintains balance. Right now we are far out of balance. Think about it.

Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5560397 - 04/26/06 09:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Apocalypse means revelation. EveryOne survives of course (as cores). How could we be separated from our essence? Why would you talk about physical survival?

eta: We are not a virus for the world. We are the world. As an apple is a part of the appletree. In the words of Alan Watts, the world peoples and the tree apples.


Edited by dr_mandelbrot (04/26/06 09:11 PM)


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5560478 - 04/26/06 09:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Muhammad was hardly a saint. He attacked Jewish tribes unprovoked, enslaved various young girls and women as concubines, and commanded followers to literally engage in warfare for the sake of God. In large part, these aspects of Prophet Muhammad is what eventually caused me to leave Islam. Muslims are indeed Children of God just as any follower of any tradition is, but I do not believe Muhammad was of the Divine Mystery, or even mystically aware of it, otherwise he would not have been an exoteric.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5560492 - 04/26/06 09:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
Do you believe in the flood that all ancient civilizations remember? Ehh, sybolism as well to you I suppose. Oh well, keep teh faith in God, when it happens the symbolism will make sense in that it relates to real events. I serisoulsy doubt little horses with wings and scorpian tails will be stinging us for 9 months in real life but they stand for a real event.

What He has to gain is ridding the world of the virus of humanity before we destroy the earth beyond repair. Population control. Nature always maintains balance. Right now we are far out of balance. Think about it.

Peace

blaze2




I don't few the flood as historical.

What if a giant meteor beats God to it?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: Basilides]
    #5560804 - 04/26/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

First Muhommud.

I did not say he was a saint basilidaes I said he was a prophet. One does not hae to be a saint to have christ conciousness. Jesus just happened to be perfect, this is why many believe he was the son of God. The jews are still waiting for theirs and so are muslims (when the "real" jesus returns in teh end days or some other crazyness, the fake one got crucified or something I still need to read most of the koran.) Prophets are normal humans and as such are not perfect. the old testament prophets are not near as saintly as jesus.

Listen If everythign thing is Gods plan then Islam has a purpose too. I'm of teh opinion that Mohammod recieved teh Word of GOd to prepare teh islamic world for this day to topple the west, but THey break Gods laws continuisly and will have no place in teh new world. Hippocrites like the their enemy. They will fall with those they seek to topple.

Now on to the giant meteor.

there wont be one. Least not big enough to wipe us out. I cant prove that but I know it. its called faith. And if one comes it will be Gods will, and part of the end days. So there you go. Nothing can beat God to it, since everything is part of God. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5561100 - 04/26/06 11:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The idea of Prophets is a bit too much for me to take in a historical sense. Awakened individuals who actually existed are probably behind the spiritual ideas we see in the world today as religion and faith, not literal agents of Mystery. Salvation doesn't come through faith, doctrine, or law. Salvation is a State of Being. Had Islam never materialized as a religion for the Arabs (who, reportedly in Islam, were feeling unwanted by God until the arrival of Muhammad), there would be no disproportionate "salvation" in the East as those who call themselves Muslims today would simply be something else by default..Sabaean, Zoroastrian, who knows; anything but a somatic materialist. Chances are either Hinduism or Christianity would fill the gap. God reveals Herself in a process of de-individuation, as if basking Oneness one soul at a time. "You come to me walking, I come to you running" as Islamic narrations have God saying. No, Muhammad was not perfect. Some of the things he did were downright evil and vile, which to me spells out an unenlightened exoteric, not an Awakened individual who was God-conscious. If Muhammad was God-conscious, his palm would never have embraced the handle of a sword.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: Basilides]
    #5562829 - 04/27/06 01:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You dont think that God showed himself to Moses? or Jesus? the same thing happened to Muhammud. Each had a message for their own people. The message would of islam would not have worked with the jewish people. Nor would hte message of judiasm have worked for the arabs or they would have already have adopted it long ago. God sent messengers to all the cultures of the earth, setting each peice in motion one by one, till the board is set. I get the feeling we are getting close to checkmate.

God sent David to war in teh old testament. Jesus taught us that violence is never the answer, but at the same time Jesus understood he would not be able to have everyone put their swords down, and until everyone agrees most will be to scared to go that way either. Muhommad recieved the same message. The devil himself is part of God, and God allows him to influence and decieve us. Perhaps the message of Islam was teh spirit of the Devil. Either way its still God's plan, have faith. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5563892 - 04/27/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Oh come on.. none of that is important. It doesn't matter whether Muhammad was the real deal or not. I don't believe in Prophets, either. There is absolutely no historical evidence of any (besides Muhammad), so until then, I'm going to assume that Abrahamic Prophets are merely the symbolic constructions of unknown historical individuals who may or may not have been awakened. Religion is all about pressure and time in my opinion - externalized ideas and symbols of unmanifested Truths. Most religions were constructed over long periods of time, with of course the exception of Islam.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5570419 - 04/29/06 01:59 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Wow, I followed this for a while, but this took a turn, but I'll jump in.

Quote:

blaze2 said:You dont think that God showed himself to Moses? or Jesus? the same thing happened to Muhammud.




If God is real, then he shows himself to every single person every day. Only those who want to see can.


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: demiu5]
    #5574008 - 04/30/06 12:56 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

Demius God is real and he does speak to everyone everyday. Most dont listen or care. THat said has he ever sent you a vision of the future? Do you doubt he could? How much faith would a man have to have to see the destruction of his world and society, and not turn his back on God? A man of the ancient world, shown visions of wars from the "modern" age. Imagine the terrible power, the reckless destruction. Can you blame them for preaching fear of God? After seeing that?

Jesus didnt even fault them there. He faulted them for following God only because of their fear, that way breeds disrespect for people of their God. What God would do that? people would start to ask. Jesus said instead of following Him out of fear, one need only love him, and he need fear nothing.

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: A thought, er... question maybe?, for you. [Re: blaze2]
    #5574620 - 04/30/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 8 months ago)

The Easter Bunny is real and he does speak to everyone everyday. Most dont listen or care. THat said has he ever sent you a vision of the future? Do you doubt he could?

A man of the ancient world, shown visions of eggs, marshmallow peeps and chocolate bunnies from the "modern" age. Imagine the terrible hunger, the reckless craving for candy. Can you blame them for preaching fear of the Easter Bunny? After seeing that?

Peter Cottontail didnt even fault them there. He faulted them for following the Easter Bunny only because of their fear, that way breeds disrespect for people of their Bunny.

What Bunny would do that? people would start to ask.

Peter Cottontail said instead of following Him out of fear, one need only love him, and He will fill your Easter Basket.


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