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OfflineOatman2000
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LC - made with Light malt Extract
    #5554338 - 04/25/06 09:06 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

ok after many failed attempts at LC with karo, i tried an additional additive. Thanks to Agar, and HippieChick

Light malt Extract.

1 tablespoon LME, placed in a double coffee filter and poured 1 qt. water through bunn-o-matic coffee maker.

i am having trouble obtaining Dextrose so i also added 1 tbl spoon of karo, and one table spoon of honey in 2 different jars.

made 2 jars. one with honey, and the other with karo.


Jar preperation
---------------

added self healing injector ports, and high temp tubing stuffed with polyfill to aid in gas exchange.



Tubing used
-----------


Pc'd the liquid for 15 min. @ 15 psi, and allowed to cool overnight.

Questions i have are......

1.) while pc'n the liquid, wouldn't the steam comming out of thje jar saturate the polyfill? making a nutrient rich solution exposed???

2.) after letting settle overnight, i noticed undisolved LME on the bottom of the jar. Will this hinder growth?


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine


Edited by oatman2000 (04/25/06 09:25 AM)


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5554968 - 04/25/06 01:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

1) polyfill is non-absorbent for the most part, that's why we use it over cotton or the like. i'm sure moisture from the steam will still get in there to an extent, but it will dry just the same. there's no nutrients in steam, only water. sugar doesn't evaporate with water, so your polyfill is still clean

2) sediments are normal and just fine. it doesn't hinder anything. in fact you'll see myc attach to it and eat it down right away. only drawback is it makes spotting contams a little harder, but as long as you got a good feel for how much sediment is in there now, and don't see more later, you're good. in the future if you want to avoid it, heat your water up and dissolve your ingredients in a separate container. pour it through a coffee filter into the jar you intend on using, then PC.. voila, sediment free.


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: creamcorn]
    #5554997 - 04/25/06 01:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

P.S. Now Foods sells Dextrose. There's a store locator there if you're in US or Canada, or you can order online. Its about a $1US/lb. Shipping it would be the biggest expense if you had to order, but a one time order for a 2lb bottle of the stuff will last you a lifetime.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: creamcorn]
    #5555007 - 04/25/06 01:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

creamcorn said:
there's no nutrients in steam, only water. sugar doesn't evaporate with water, so your polyfill is still clean





I remember agar arguing the exact opposite...


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5555043 - 04/25/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

did he miss out on the 7th grade chemistry experiment where you leave sugar water in a jar and it leaves rock candy in the bottom once the water evaporates?


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InvisibleHolydiver
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5555047 - 04/25/06 02:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

oatman2000 said:
1.) while pc'n the liquid, wouldn't the steam comming out of thje jar saturate the polyfill? making a nutrient rich solution exposed???

2.) after letting settle overnight, i noticed undisolved LME on the bottom of the jar. Will this hinder growth?




1) No, I use a 1/4" hole stuffed with polyfill and never have contams. When you apply a coffee filter against the top of your LC jar as a dust cover, it absorbs any extra moisture that may be on the polyfill, and evaporates it through the filter. Even if you don't use a filter for a dust cover, the polyfill still dries out on its own. The "polyfill wicking in contams" thing is way overplayed, don't worry about it.

2) Always get sediments in mine, and eventually mycelium ends up consuming it anyways. Again, not to worry. Sediment comes with the territory when using L.M.E.


--------------------
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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: creamcorn]
    #5555110 - 04/25/06 02:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

creamcorn said:
did he miss out on the 7th grade chemistry experiment where you leave sugar water in a jar and it leaves rock candy in the bottom once the water evaporates?




I think water evaporating is a little different then boiling it at 250 degrees.  :smirk:


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5555389 - 04/25/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

i dont.

boiling is boiling. the pressure changes the temp at which it boils. ever see water boil at room temperature in a vaccum? it works the other way around in a PC, and yes it takes 250 degrees to make it boil. its still all the same. the properties of a dissolved solute (the sugars) within a solvent (the water) don't suddenly change because it requires a higher temperature to cause a boil. you're not putting it through a chemical reaction, its still just sugar dissolved in water. yes yes, carmelizing is a chemical reaction, but its so minimal at this stage, it takes 320 degrees for dextrose to cause the reaction (and there is a gotcha here that fructose, the sugar in corn syrup does carmelize at 230, but if you boil instead of PC that's moot), and that's where sugars rearrange their structure and combine with water molecules. at the end of the day you're still just making steam from the water content, and you're not vaporizing sugars. in order for the sugar to make its way into the polyfill, you'd have to do just that; vaporize it, turn it into a gas... that's simply not happening here.


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Offlinehomusubi
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5555691 - 04/25/06 05:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

what is that blue thing on ur lid... rubber?
i make something like that, so it close after you inoculate.. i suppose its the same stuff... or not?

btw, can you use just Malt extract, and glucose?? because i had already hard to get malt extract, i think light malt extract will be impossible to get here...


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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: homusubi]
    #5556471 - 04/25/06 09:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yea... the blue thing is a rubber stopper. Kinda like a vacutaner top, but cheeper.. (cheap bastard)

can't remember where, but someplace sells them online cheap as hell. Self healing injector ports.

I think my Lc is too thick??!?
i can see chunks of LME floating around when i hand swirl. did i use too much? Should it have been a level tbl spoon? because i put a heaping tablespoon in.... Hmmm...





Chunky


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine


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Offlinemikeownow
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Oatman2000]
    #5556700 - 04/25/06 10:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

it should be fine


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: mikeownow]
    #5556741 - 04/25/06 10:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)



weigh it :wink:


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OfflineBabo911
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5556777 - 04/25/06 10:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

give it a try. Your also one of the first i have seen not to use plastic lids. Good to know it is cool


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Offlinehomusubi
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5556823 - 04/25/06 10:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Snaggletooth said:


weigh it :wink:




are you weighting light malt extract?? because my malt extract is from the same color...


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: homusubi]
    #5556964 - 04/25/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yes malt/dex  :thumbup:


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OfflineHippieChick
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5557258 - 04/26/06 12:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Why weigh it ?

Put a level tablespoon each per quart of distilled water , and shake it up .

I use a $2 coffee maker from the Goodwill .

I make LC solution a gallon at a time . If you seal it up right , it will last for months waiting to be used :thumbup:



I run a pot full of tapwater thought the coffee maker to clean it and warm it up .

Now I make a pot full of the distilled water .

Pour the pot of hot water back into an empty gallon container and add 4 tablespoons each of LME and Dextrose . Shake it up , be careful , it's HOT . Pour the rest of the distilled water in with this and mix it up .

Now put two coffee filters in the coffee maker and make two pots of coffee with this mix , minus the coffee , lol :wink: . Although I'm sure a dap of coffee couldn't hurt . Peeps add it to all kinds of subs. to help promote growth . Make it hard to see what's going on :grin:

I get 5 quarts of LC mix each time .

You can run it through the coffee maker twice if you want to get it a little clearer . Change the filters after 2 uses . They tend to slow down and drip slower after uses .

The best way to keep it clear is not to over PC it and allow the sugars to carmelize :thumbup: 15 minutes at 15psi is what I do . NO more .



Peace,Love,Happiness and Harmony
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Invisiblecappa
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5557413 - 04/26/06 02:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

hehe. Can't help but chime in on the 'nutrients evaporating with water' stuff.

I saw the same post by agar about polyfill and coffee filters being discolored. The claim was that it was nutrients in the evaporatiing water.

Can't help but disagree.
What I see is discoloration, but I believe it's caused by oxidizing metal where the protective coating or plating on the metal lids ends, and the exposed metal begins.  :smile:

Disclaimer: I really respect agar and all the time and effort he has put into this community. However, I have a right to disagree with even the best of minds.  :smile:


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: cappa]
    #5557615 - 04/26/06 05:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

fructose, the sugar in corn syrup




corn sugar is dextrose.
most 'corn syrup' is glucose/dextrose.
there is 'high fructose corn syrup' as well,
proly best to avoid that.


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Edited by Hippie3 (04/26/06 07:54 AM)


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OfflineOatman2000
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Hippie3]
    #5557809 - 04/26/06 08:18 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

cool... hope i show some growth.

i have a nice bunn-o-matic coffee maker. if you dump the water back into the maker, it will hold it in a resivoir and heat it up.

so you can have hot water any time you want.


--------------------
Spawning to COIR
:thumbup:  My Chocolate Recipe
WBS QUART SPAWN JAR PREPERATION
----------------------------

4-PO-DMT; 4-phosphoryloxy-N,N-dimethltryptamine


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Invisiblecreamcorn
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Re: LC - made with Light malt Extract [Re: Hippie3]
    #5557845 - 04/26/06 08:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Hippie3 said:

corn sugar is dextrose.
most 'corn syrup' is glucose/dextrose.
there is 'high fructose corn syrup' as well,
proly best to avoid that.




I stand corrected, I double checked and you're right, its mostly dextrose (like in the mid 90%s). The high-fructose variety is when the ratio has been changed to increase an amount of fructose. If this is the case we certainly shouldn't see much carmelization, because as I mentioned earlier that shouldn't happen til temps approach 320F. I still stick to boiling for LC's, never contamed on me and its certainly not going to carmelize anything.

and I agree here with cappa, no disrespect to agar - I know he can hand my ass to me when it comes to all things mycology and I never even saw the original post mentioned... but I gotta stick with my very basic chem knowledge and intuition that says the sugars aren't evaporating. :-)

(although a possible explanation I just thought of, corn syrup often has vanilla flavoring, which is usually vanilla extracted in an alcohol solvent, and alcohol certainly evaporates at temps even lower than water, perhaps a discoloration occurs because the trace alcohol content has been discolored, and that steams up through the filter?)


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