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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump....
    #5551081 - 04/24/06 01:17 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

Hey all,

Ok I broke down and bought a hand vacuum pump for extractions.

The first one that I am attempting is psilocybin/psilocin extraction.

I have never used one so I dont know what to expect, so any suggestion or comments would be grateful



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OfflineTamadragon
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... *DELETED* [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5551374 - 04/24/06 03:02 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

Post deleted by Tamadragon

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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5551420 - 04/24/06 03:11 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

I am using this as a guide http://www.fanaticus.com/mycoalki.htm#ext


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5551526 - 04/24/06 03:49 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

heh, mine is exactly the same, arrived last week  :laugh:


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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: shirley knott]
    #5551562 - 04/24/06 04:01 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

so it's as easy as it seems... :tongue2:

set the filter on and let loose :crazy2:


the slurry is stepping as we speak...in another hour or so I will use it...


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5551650 - 04/24/06 04:35 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

Does anyone know what types of vacuum pumps exist? Im asking because they are very usefull in extractions.

I know the hand pumps ,and the ones using a motor to produce vacuum.There is also another type of vacuum creatiing machine im looking into but i dont know its name . Its a T shaped tube (a T tilted horizontally) which one end goes to the flask (the bottom of the T) and the other one to the faucet.The water faucet is turned on ,water runs through it pulling air out of the flask.So this utilises water to produce vacuum....

Any insight on those pupmps,even knowing their name can come handy!

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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Psiloman]
    #5551654 - 04/24/06 04:37 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

ahhh man I saw that too today, and thought about it but passed.

I can not think of what it is..... :crazy2:


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OfflineTamadragon
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... *DELETED* [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5551686 - 04/24/06 04:49 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

Post deleted by Tamadragon

Reason for deletion: ===



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~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5551697 - 04/24/06 04:54 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

ah thanks!

So...why arent those preffered? (im assuming they arent since i havent seen any using them in here)

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Invisiblespock
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Psiloman]
    #5552051 - 04/24/06 06:56 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

vacuum pumps are not my bag but if i understand what you are trying to do, i don't see why it wouldn't serve your purpose.

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Offlinejohnuk
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Psiloman]
    #5552086 - 04/24/06 07:04 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

Quote:

Psiloman said:
ah thanks!

So...why arent those preffered? (im assuming they arent since i havent seen any using them in here)




We used them in organic chemistry for filtration. They don't produce a particularly stellar vacuum level. If you have a very thick slurry, or even a moderately thick raw product, a weak vacuum won't pull the solvent through very quick. Which is a good thing in a way because, theoretically and practically to some extent, the harder you suck on the filter paper the more the fibres will distort and the more solid product you'll get coming through into the solvent.

The venturi pumps need you to leave the tap on full, or very high, because they rely on the ?pressure? of water passing the venturi port for their vacuum generation level. I think the volume of the water flow determines the pumping speed. When the whole class were busy extracting things there'd be quite a lot of noise from the venturis, as well as a lot of water going into the sinks.

You can get venturi effect pumps that use something as simple as a stream of compressed air. Garages can buy an attachment for their compressors that draws a vacuum using the effect.

Unless you buy a particularly good venturi and have a good tap spare, a hand pump will produce a higher vacuum level.

About the only bonus of a venturi, besides their cost (which can be low if they're budget plastic things like our's were, but can also be quite high depending on the quality) and that they're hands free (as are all vacuum pumps bar the hand pump, obviously), is that they can pump nasty things like solvent and acid vapours without too much trouble.

Only very, very expensive lab pumps are oil free and even fewer are resistant to acid vapours. Most pumps, all of them in our price range, have oil in them which might not like solvent vapour too much. Even a handpump could have problems with the seals melting if they haven't been designed to be compatible with certain solvent vapours. Venturis are easily to make out of resistant materials (they don't need any lubrication or moving seals) and the fact that they use water for pumping means that they'll dissolve things like solvents and make them less of a problem. Also means they'll dissolve things like acids, which could be a problem but most filtrations are done with solvents anyway and the rate the water flows through them would mean it'd have to be a concentrated + evil acid to keep up with the rate of dilution.

It all depends on usage and exposure. Even if your hand pump can't tolerate solvents, if you only ever use it now and again it'll probably last ages.

You know fridges have a compressor on the back of them? They also have a port that sucks the gas back in. If you cut them away from the frige you can score a pretty darn kick ass compressor / vacuum pump for free. The pressures are high enough for things like air brushes and the vacuum level is enough to collapse rigid plastic bottles and give you suction marks on your skin if you leave your skin exposed for too long. The pumping speed is also pretty sweet! As is the amount of noise they produce, which is close to zero.

Most frige compressors still work fine, the frige is just dumped because it's old and mucky. "We need a new kitchen honey bumpkins!" The compressor is easy to get out, you just need some pliers with a sharp pair of wire cutting jaws and / or a hacksaw, maybe some screwdrivers too. Or, if you have one, an angle grinder / oxyacetylene kit / plasma torch / sledge hammer, depending on how urgently you need a vacuum.

Just unscrew, grind through or otherwise mess up whatever is bolting the compressor into place. It'll usually be sitting on a metal plate that's screw to the bottom of the fridge at the back. Strip away the cable with any electronics on it. There'll be two metal pipes about a 1/4 of an inch thick or less going into and out of the pump. Cut them as far aware from the pump as you can - best to have as much spare as possible. They're usually copper and thin walled, so you can just about do it with some sharp wire cutting jaws on a pair of pliers.

Theoretically, it's probably against the law to do this, since fridges have freon / CFCs and other greenhouse gases in them which the government will have a thing on saying that any equipment containing them needs processing in a super high tech facility. However, one fridge in a million won't put much of a dint on the world and it's not like everyone's going to go out and start doing it. But if you want to be extra careful and not hurt the enviroment, use you pliers to completely crush, buckle and bend the tubing on the side of where you're going to cut the pipe that's furthest away from the pump, to seal the pipe off. As soon as you make the cut in the pipe, further mangle shut the end that's still connected to the frige. Do the same with the other cut as you make it. You could then block the ends with something like epoxy glue if you wanted to be extra careful.

But anyway, get the pump free from the fridge. Once home, you can take off all of the electronics except the bits stuck directly onto the side of the pump. The only electronics you 'need' are super simple and shouldn't really include any complex looking PCBs. If some remain, they're probably for the thermometers and anything else that was burried in the fridge itself, and could cause the pump to not turn on because it thinks the fridge is already cool enough, for instance. The simple stuff stuck directly to the pump is the starter and thermocouple that stops the pump overheating. In the most modern fridge I took apart, the more complex electronics where in a box close to, but not on, the pump. I just cut them away and connected a lead directly to the box stuck on the side of the pump. Usually, these pumps are pumping gas through a radiator and only turn on for a few minutes at a time. I've found you can run them for ages even while they're disconnected and they're fine because they're constantly sucking in new, 'cool' air, as opposed to recirculating gas in a closed loop, which gets hot in places. But you should be aware of why they might turn themselves off for no particular reason.

Be sure to replace any covers on the electronics that are stuck to the side of the pump or cover them over yourself. The cover fell off one of mine and when I went to pick the pump up one day I'd forgotten about this, and that I'd left it plugged in, and took a major-ass-blasting from the mains (240V) via my arms, which I kind of enjoyed actually! :wink: I'd strongly recommend a cover if you're going to be using it near liquids, even if it's just an upturned storage box.

You can now get creative on how to hook the pump up to your flask.

These pumps have an oil bath inside them that, theoretically, makes them unsuitable for pumping solvents. But I've also emptied quite a lot of this oil bath out of some pumps, by accident, and they've carried on. Tipping the pump on it's side will let the oil (which is a light, thin liquid like WD40) run out of the input and output pipes and that's why when you get a new fridge you're supposed to let it stand still for a while before you turn it on, to make sure all the oil is where it's supposed to be (the fridge might have been on it's side during shipping, although I'm sure they put notes all over the box about that).

Saying that, you don't want to be sucking liquid solvent into the pump if at all possible. You can make a simple filter from a jam jar. Think of a bong made from a jam jar with the in tube going under the water and right to the bottom and the out tube only poking into the very top, above the water. Replace the water with something like cotton wool. Any liquid that gets sucked in will now have to almost fill the jar before it can get into the out tube (you effectively have a water proof hoover) and any splashing will get absorped by the cotton wool. Ideally, you should stop the pump and replace the cotton wool if it gets soaked, because it'll just be helping to evaporate solvent into the vacuum pump. Remember that solvents will boil under quite low vacuums and the larger the surface area the quicker they'll evaporate. An identical version of this idea is used on the most expensive lab pumped but replaces the cotton wool with liquid nitrogen, or some other cryogen that will freeze virtually every possible contaminate trying to get through it, whether it's going towards the pump or coming from it (when you turn a pump off it can backflow shite into the vacuum chamber connected to it, which is probably now at a higher vacuum level than the inside of the pump, specially if the pump isn't oil-free). Don't pack the wool tightly or the pump might overheat trying to suck through it, and it doesn't need to be tight anyway.

If I ever left one of these pumps out in our garage, particular during the winter, even though it didn't freeze it would get very cold. I think this would cause the oil to thicken up. When I plugged it in the pump would come on for a few second, then cut out, and keep doing that off and on for about half an hour or more. The thickend oil must have been asking the motor to draw too much current, and so the pump was switching itself off to prevent burning out the motor. Once the pump was at room temperature it would work continuously.

You'll probably find it's quite difficult to extract a spare fridge from your local tip. It's tricky to do it at ours because they have contractors who collect white goods for parts and they don't want you stealing their profit. Also, the guys working there have probably been told not to let people take CFC containing things away. Basically, if they see you touch it, they figure you must think it's worth something, and therefore you're not having it. Maybe it's different where you are, but I doubt it! :tongue2: You may have to do a 'stealth extraction' at high speed. Alternatively, drive around a council estate for five minutes and you'll have one thrown at your windscreen.

According to the contracting law here in the UK, if you take something from the tip it's your's. You can't test it on site, you need permission to take it (as far as I'm aware) and you can't take it back, it has to be disposed of as commercial waste at your expense (which suggests you need to be a company to take it in the first place). Which puts a major handbrake on the idea of personal recycling, but I doubt they'll notice one fridge. It's just to stop companies from trying to do their stuff for free I think. I've actually contacted my local authorities about this, because I'm pissed with getting it from the guys down there whenever I touch something, and have got nothing back. I'm offering to take stuff, for free, and put it to use again and I don't even get a reply.

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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: johnuk]
    #5552155 - 04/24/06 07:17 PM (18 years, 29 days ago)

WTF...Now that is a response  :bowdown:


Good reading  :thumbup:


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OfflinePsiloman
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: johnuk]
    #5554156 - 04/25/06 06:58 AM (18 years, 28 days ago)

Thanks for the in depth post, you oppened a new horizon for me ,that of fridge pumps!

Certainly a low budget (if any) solution with quite a potential for the hobbyist extractor. Two thumbs up

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OfflineTamadragon
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... *DELETED* [Re: Psiloman]
    #5557567 - 04/26/06 04:45 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Post deleted by Tamadragon

Reason for deletion: ===



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~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5557907 - 04/26/06 09:26 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)



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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5558013 - 04/26/06 10:05 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

I want one.

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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: thenewguy05]
    #5558261 - 04/26/06 11:18 AM (18 years, 27 days ago)

type 'filter flask' into ebay, and get the $45 dollar (cheapest) one. it's ace. reasonable priced, i thought, and it comes with everything in the picture.


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buh

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OfflineTamadragon
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... *DELETED* [Re: shirley knott]
    #5559981 - 04/26/06 07:35 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Post deleted by Tamadragon

Reason for deletion: ===



--------------------
~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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OfflineTamadragon
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... *DELETED* [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5560027 - 04/26/06 07:48 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

Post deleted by Tamadragon

Reason for deletion: ===



--------------------
~Tama

Peace

I get real lonely

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OfflineSnaggletooth
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5560076 - 04/26/06 08:01 PM (18 years, 27 days ago)

that looks good, but I'm not an expert


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Tamadragon]
    #5562660 - 04/27/06 12:25 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

Quote:

Tamadragon said:
how about from Mac Nan biologicals? they sell a set up?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Filtration-Set-Up-25...5QQcmdZViewItem


that's the one


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buh

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Offlinethenewguy05
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: shirley knott]
    #5562707 - 04/27/06 12:40 PM (18 years, 26 days ago)

nice!!!

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Offlinegeko127
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: Snaggletooth]
    #5574743 - 04/30/06 05:26 PM (18 years, 23 days ago)

All the following information has been Edited, The copyed and pasted
Geko DID NOT make this cotraption :tongue:
But its still around on the web.
Geko aslo has another desgine like this one ,But there is a few pic's with it and it wont load, So its going to have to be the post with links to the pic's.
But have a read of this for now.

Sorry about not puting in a pic, But hear ya all go to get the general idea before and after reading this post.
Check this link out GOAT and then you will see :wink:
THE CHEAP LITTLE SUCKER

http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g218/Geko127/VacP6090007.jpg

Disclaimer: The original instructions are given here , but since the web pages have tendency to disappear sooner or later I have made an edited copy (without the permission of the original authors - I apologize James and Tim...) of it. I haven't any practical experiences with the precipice - so you are on your own !

This is the vacuum pump that swip designed and build for less than $20, we call it the "Cheap Little Sucker". It was so effective that EAI now supplys the plans with the Berkut kit. As you can see it is a very simple design. The big round black thing is a freon compressor off of a beer keg cooler. It was just junked, but a closer inspection revielded that the thermostat was the only thing that was wrong with the cooler. You can also use a automobile A/C compressor and an electric motor.

Remember: on the opposite side of a compressor IS a vacuum. Therefore, we put a compression fitting, a couple of 'T' fittings, a bleeder valve, and a automotive vacuum guage on the vacuum side of the compressor. Wired in a switch and away we went! It worked great! Very little noise, heat and capable of pulling 25  inches of vacuum - what more could you ask for?

A vacuum pump for less than $25 - why not?

After looking around for different vacuum bagging kits selling for as much as $300, this 24 year-old Berkut builder decided to use a little Texan Jerry-rigging. The resulting contraption is something swip calls "The Cheap Little Sucker."

Start by locating one of the following:

Refrigerator Freon Compressor (Sealed Unit)
Automobile Air-Conditioning Compressor and Electric Motor
In my opinion, the Refrigerator Freon Compressor (RFC) is the best overall choice. The refrigerator unit is quiet, compact and produces little heat. The auto compressor is piston based, produces large amounts of heat and requires an external electric motor. Again, whatever is easiest for you to acquire. My compressor came from a keg cooler that had been scraped because the thermostat was fbsed and it froze the beer. Look for junk yards, garage sales, and yes - the side of the road. "One man's junk is another man's treasure." You might be amazed where you can find a dead 'fridge. (Remember - the compressor must be operational, but the case, coils, and other parts will be discarded).

Remove the compressor from the fridge and careflilly cut the coils free. The Freon in the compressor will take some time to escape. Examine the wiring and make sure that it is safe. My unit had a termistor (thermal flise) still attached and operational. Moment of truth - plug it in and determine which is the exhaust and suction sides. While it is running, I suggest squirting some WD-40 into the pump to help replace the lost oil.

The diagram shows the configuration I am using and contains several optional extras. As a minimum, use a compression fitting to clamp the 3/8 inch diameter brass pipe to the suction side of the compressor. Attach two T-fittings to the pipe and the compressor hose on the end. On the first T- fitting I used a simple brass valve for the pressure relief The vacuum gauge I used is an automobile Vacuum/Fuel pressure gauge ($15 part at the local auto parts store) attached to a nipple on the outboard T-fitting. I had some air-compressor hoses so I incorporated a quick connect fitting to the end of the 2nd T-fitting. This made it possible to use, disconnect, and interchange the existing hoses with the air-compressor.

"The Cheap Little Sucker" got its first workout on the two winglets and performed flawlessly. It is very quiet and produces only a small amount of heat. It moves a good volume of air and seems to take a pufly winglet bag down to 13" in 3-4 minutes. Be careflil though, these compressors have no problem pulling 30  inches (enough to damage the foam).


--------------------
LIFE IS A BITCH, AND THEN YOU MARRY ONE.

BUT SUCH IS LIFE !

Edited by geko127 (05/02/06 05:03 AM)

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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: geko127]
    #5576385 - 05/01/06 05:23 AM (18 years, 22 days ago)

er... thanks geko

:rolleyes:


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buh

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OfflineHippyInASuit
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: shirley knott]
    #5578595 - 05/01/06 07:46 PM (18 years, 22 days ago)

I ordered this aspirator pump and this bottletop filter unit.

I'll let you all know how the aspirator pump works out in a week or two. I'm hoping it will have enough suction and just may take a little longer. We'll see...

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Offlinegeko127
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Re: Suggestions... for a hand vacuum pump.... [Re: HippyInASuit]
    #5582530 - 05/02/06 06:38 PM (18 years, 21 days ago)

There is now a link to the picture in the post above


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LIFE IS A BITCH, AND THEN YOU MARRY ONE.

BUT SUCH IS LIFE !

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