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Offlinepalmersc
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Obey the laws of man
    #5549315 - 04/23/06 09:32 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I got this little bit from smoe website since I was thinking about something:

God's laws are not to be tampered with. There are many warnings along this line. For instance, read Revelation 22:18, 19 where the Lord warns that we should not add to his word or subtract from it.

But there is one other set of laws we want to notice. These are generally thought to be the laws of men, like city laws made by a country to govern its people, but actually these laws have been lifted from God's laws. For example, in all of God's laws he has said that man should not kill, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, etc. What kind of laws does man have? The same. Why? Because they are basic laws that must be enforced if man is to survive. Even in those countries where some other religion dominates and controls the people, still it is God's law that governs them- This may be denied, but it is true nevertheless. God first gave law and having made man he knew from the beginning the kind of laws that man needed and these laws, secularly, have been handed down from generation to generation, from country to country. Therefore, these are God's law and God consequently rules these countries and the world itself through his laws.

How is man to look upon the law of the land? As he is expected to respect and obey God's spiritual laws, the same likewise holds true with the laws of man, that is, if they are his laws, and laws that are in keeping with his will. For instance, Paul writes, "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. Whosoever therefore resisted the power, resist eth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation. For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? Do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same. For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil. Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake. For this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing. Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour." (Romans 13:1-7). Peter writes, "Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme; Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well. For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God. Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king." (1 Peter 2:13-17). Paul said, "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work." (Titus 3:1).

What about the law here in Singapore? Basically the laws of this country are of God. How should the Christian therefore react to them? He should obey the laws of his country. He should be a good law abiding citizen. He should be an example for all others. He should not break the law. He should stop at the red lights on the streets even when others go on. He should pay his taxes. And on and on with all other laws that are in harmony with God's will. Law is necessary and it is also necessary that the law be enforced. Christians should never give any trouble, should never have to be fined, or have to go to jail.

The law of the country is for our good and for the good of others. What would happen if there were no laws? We would all be frightened and our very lives would be in danger. So we should thank God for the laws, for those who strive to enforce them, and we should help them in every way possible and pray for them. But above all, God's divine law is for our good and the good of the world. The Lord asks us to repent or to turn away from all bad and evil things and to obey him. Then as Christians we are to live pure, holy, and godly lives. All good citizens of this country have not obeyed God, but you can be sure that all who have obeyed God are good citizens.

I'm not very well versed in the practice of Christianity. Why is it that God expects man to folow laws created by inherently sinful men. It makes no sense to me. I know this forum is not full of people who take the Bible literally. But I am around many Christians who really won't think about what they are doing. I'm not interested in attacking anybody's veiws or changing the way they think. Because I'm still trying to figure out things myself. I'd just like to know what a typical response would be from a follower. My friends just tell me that's the way it is and I find it hard to believe.

Edited by palmersc (04/23/06 09:52 PM)

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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: palmersc]
    #5549502 - 04/23/06 10:22 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

God does not make laws for human behavior. Only men do this. When they claim that these laws are God's...watch out and don't bend over...someone is trying to screw you. I have yet to see any law set down by God for man. This "God's Law" thing is a common tool for oppressing a population. Religious extremists use this to control people's thoughts as well as their actions.


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"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda

Edited by Huehuecoyotl (04/23/06 10:38 PM)

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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: palmersc]
    #5549606 - 04/23/06 11:11 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In the beginning, there were the laws of men. Then, men called these laws the laws of God. Their progeny were not aware of this, and they came to conclusion in your post.


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Namaste

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OfflineEmptySpace
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: palmersc]
    #5549658 - 04/23/06 11:30 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

In the Islamic religion, it is customary and lawful to "submit." Many Islamic people are brainwashed into doing things that satisfy this law.  Thus, the World Trade Center does not exist.  Watch what is said about "God's Law," because you never know what evil you may do.  :wink:


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We can't stop here - This is bat country.

-Duke--Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas

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InvisibleWIZOLZ
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: EmptySpace]
    #5549766 - 04/24/06 12:07 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I believe in law, I believe in Gods law and also man's (social) law. All exsist, but not all are absolute. Each in turn has been a victim to corruption, misinformation and manipulated for both good and evil motive's.

I find it natural that Paul speaks of law and tribute. In his life, he had been a lawyor, taught so in Roman dialect to understand all the inner workings of this vast military/social power. It was through his knowledge of law that he was to visit Rome and speak before the ceasar, in event prolonging his ultimate execution.

Who determines what basis for which should govern? It is not fair that even in the event of human suffering and injutice that these laws have been broken... It only seems sensible that law should be in conjuction with God. That which is truley sacred and Good.

The law of the country is for our good and for the good of others. What would happen if there were no laws?

It would be martial law, and that...would be dangerous, if not extrememly interesting.


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---------o----o----o-------o------------------------o--o-o-
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Requim for a Dream - Paul Oakenfold
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"The mis/abuse of any form of power, is the worst form of ignorance"
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WIZOLZ - Lover with a Killer's Smile

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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: WIZOLZ]
    #5549774 - 04/24/06 12:11 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

theres an exception to every rule

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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: fresh313]
    #5550207 - 04/24/06 04:52 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I don't have a problem, in general, with mankind's laws... but I do have a problem when others try to legislate my moral values. For example, I don't need somebody else telling me that I cannot buy alcohol on Sunday because they are trying to save me from myself. Unfortunately, the laws of mankind are filled with legislation governing moral values.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: Seuss]
    #5550249 - 04/24/06 05:48 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

[...]I don't need somebody else telling me that I cannot buy alcohol on Sunday because they are trying to save me from myself.[...]
Hehe, perhaps they try to protect others from you, just only for one day in a week ? (j/k, but I think it stems from there)
If not, their morality is hilarious.
You are right that they should not be concerned about what you do to yourself, as long as it doesn't affect others.
:heart:

Ps: There is a saying that if god wouldn't have given Moses the ten commandments, human societies would have invented them by themselves later anyway.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

Edited by BlueCoyote (04/24/06 05:56 AM)

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Offlinefresh313
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5550312 - 04/24/06 07:00 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

therye not trying to save u from yourself
thier trying to make it so u cant get half cocked and goto church.

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: Seuss]
    #5550473 - 04/24/06 08:56 AM (17 years, 11 months ago)

"I don't need somebody else telling me that I cannot buy alcohol on Sunday"

Where my parents live in Pennsylvania God doesn't allow people to drink at all.  It's a dry township.  Now, 5 miles away God allows people to sell beer at the one beer store in that township.  God only wants one beer store there and not two.  And so on. 

While there we toured the railroad museum which is in this town that used to be a big factory town that built locomotives and serviced them.  The Laws of the Railroad and the Laws of God were integral.  By this I mean that in a literal sense the church preached about the need for these workers to obey and honor the railroad.  The railroad owned the church.

Of course, today the Republican party "owns" many of the churchgoing people in the United States.  This is true in a literal sense as evidenced by the politics and religion of my parents town.  If you are a liberal you may not want to admit it until you find the other liberal in town who is passing through and then you can have a nice chat about politics.  Otherwise, better to just keep quiet.  Same thing about mentioning how much you could use a beer... :blush: etc. etc.


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #5551366 - 04/24/06 02:59 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

God did give us his laws, perhaps Moses made up teh tablets himself, but God gave us those laws. I'll even tell you how I know this.

Humans are animals. Animals have natural instincts and an inborn sense of right and wrong. IF you want proof think of your dog that knows that pissing on teh carpet pisses you off and normally would not but you havent taken him out so he decides now would be a good time to piss you off. My iguana does the same thing. At the same time we have our instincts that tell us first survial of ourselves, second survival of the group(where there is one), thridly survival of ourself within the group. This is just animal nature.

These are Gods laws. These are Man's laws. We just feel the need to write them down is all. Everyone knows these things in their hearts.


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5551527 - 04/24/06 03:49 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I am smart enough not to own a stupid dog that can't piss in a litter box and even if I did own a dog I wouldn't be a stupid dog owner who doesn't let the dog out and then blames the dog for "trying to piss him off".


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Anxiety is what you make it.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5551552 - 04/24/06 03:58 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
Humans are animals.  Animals have natural instincts and an inborn sense of right and wrong.




I've personally seen a cat eat its live, just born children before. If that animal had an inborn sense of right and wrong, then it must be right for humans to eat their own children? :smirk:

Quote:


  IF you want proof think of your dog that knows that pissing on teh carpet pisses you off and normally would not but you havent taken him out so he decides now would be a good time to piss you off.




If the dog has to piss and hasn't been taken outside, then it would only be natural for the dog to piss on the carpet (i.e. can't hold it in any longer). Animals naturally have a sense of their home and to not mess their home up - I do not see this as evidence of their inborn sense of right and wrong.

Quote:


These are Gods laws.  These are Man's laws.  We just feel the need to write them down is all.  Everyone knows these things in their hearts.




God's laws? No way to substantiate that they are God's laws, sorry.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5551563 - 04/24/06 04:01 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I agree with the 2 posts above.


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Namaste

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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5551615 - 04/24/06 04:19 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

blaze2 said:
Humans are animals.  Animals have natural instincts and an inborn sense of right and wrong.




I've personally seen a cat eat its live, just born children before. If that animal had an inborn sense of right and wrong, then it must be right for humans to eat their own children? :smirk:

ahhh your endless ingnorance.  Ok  do you know that teh kittens were well?  How do you know that the mother cat didnt know more about her own kitten than you?  Its quite possible they were sick and not well.  In the world of animals you do not waste.  A human born with defects is killed by doctors.  The cat just knew it would need to eat and do disposed of them that way.

Quote:


  IF you want proof think of your dog that knows that pissing on teh carpet pisses you off and normally would not but you havent taken him out so he decides now would be a good time to piss you off.




If the dog has to piss and hasn't been taken outside, then it would only be natural for the dog to piss on the carpet (i.e. can't hold it in any longer). Animals naturally have a sense of their home and to not mess their home up - I do not see this as evidence of their inborn sense of right and wrong.

This was just one example as you well know do you require me to spell out all the acts of animals as obeying the laws of God?  If the dog couldnt go outside it could piss anywhere in the house it wants.  Why is it that many dogs decided to throw it you face by pissing in the same room as you.  Because they know it will piss you off.  its one of the few ways they can communicate unhappiness to us humans. 

Quote:


These are Gods laws.  These are Man's laws.  We just feel the need to write them down is all.  Everyone knows these things in their hearts.




God's laws? No way to substantiate that they are God's laws, sorry.

God is just a word I know that it pisses off people like you who refuse to put a name on something insubstansial, but all the same its Nature if you prefer that better.  God is nature to me they are interchangable if you would rather look at as the laws of nature go ahead, but I challenge you deny these ideas as common in all nature.  Does that mean there wont be any execptions?  of course not, but the execptions are working against Nature, and that is why they remain the small minority present in all groups of societal animals on earth.  There is no societal animal that has a majority of unatural creatures as their group.

Further the golden rule "do unto others" has been observed countless times in all societal animals.  Monkeys cleaning each others fleas, the cleaner fish and shimp on a coral reef trusting they wont be eaten by the larger fish teh clean, etc etc.  This is also God's Law as we all know.  Or nature if you prefer.


:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5551634 - 04/24/06 04:28 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Well shit now that you turn it around like that, of course! You can't just assume we equate the words God and nature! When a stranger says "God" then we think he's talking about the God from Christianity. This is especially true when the topic of the thread is about Christianity!

Anyhow, the reasoning for the similarities in behaviors of lower animals and humans is the same as the reasoning for why lots of animals have similar organs and limbs.


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Namaste

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5551923 - 04/24/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

blaze2 said:
ahhh your endless ingnorance.




Conversational terrorism.

Quote:


  Ok  do you know that teh kittens were well?  How do you know that the mother cat didnt know more about her own kitten than you?




How do you know she wasn't just hungry?

Quote:


  Its quite possible they were sick and not well.  In the world of animals you do not waste.




She was probably responding to the fact that she could not support the number of kittens that she gave birth to, I would imagine that such is the scientific hypothesis concerning the situation. Can a trailerpark mom who has more children than she can feed or raise in decent conditions murder her children?

If one is to state that animals have an inborn sense of right and wrong, and that we are animals, then the behaviors that animals engage in dictate our own concept of right and wrong. Which is to say, of course, wrong. :grin:

Quote:


  A human born with defects is killed by doctors.




Is that the policy? Your statement is an observation of reality, which means it is testable. Medicial technology has advanced simply as a result of striving to allow children with birth defects to survive.

Quote:


This was just one example as you well know do you require me to spell out all the acts of animals as obeying the laws of God?




No, the examples you have provided have been sufficent enough for me to raise doubt agansit your stance that the examples are intended to support.

Quote:


  If the dog couldnt go outside it could piss anywhere in the house it wants.  Why is it that many dogs decided to throw it you face by pissing in the same room as you.




Perhaps because they are occupying the room that you are in, as they are trying to let you know that you need to get off your ass and take them outside? :lol:

Quote:


  Because they know it will piss you off.  its one of the few ways they can communicate unhappiness to us humans.




From what I have gathered from scientists that work with dogs, a dog urinates when he is afraid, as an expression of the social order of the dogs (relates to how puppies wet themselves and require their mother to clean them). If the dog has to piss and knows he will get punished for doing so inside, then it would be a natural result to become afraid if they saw you. Thus, piss.......



Quote:


God is just a word I know that it pisses off people like you who refuse to put a name on something insubstansial, but all the same its Nature if you prefer that better.




Natural laws? I am aware of cause and effect... that's all I can think of. :grin:


Quote:

Does that mean there wont be any execptions?  of course not, but the execptions are working against Nature, and that is why they remain the small minority present in all groups of societal animals on earth. 




A parent eating its young is not working agansit Nature. Not being able to provide enough food for its young and to feed its own life would mean that the parent would starve unless it stopped caring for some of its young. This does not work agansit nature (how can you do that? :wtf:), it provides for its survival.

Quote:


Further the golden rule "do unto others" has been observed countless times in all societal animals.  Monkeys cleaning each others fleas, the cleaner fish and shimp on a coral reef trusting they wont be eaten by the larger fish teh clean, etc etc.  This is also God's Law as we all know.  Or nature if you prefer.




Dogs are societal animals, and they impose a hierarchy, which implies different animals in the society have different rights. "Do unto others" does not apply, the survival of some dogs depends on taking it like a bitch and staying in one's place - not reacting with the same (as in, do unto others as they do to you). Such an example underscores the fact that "do unto others" is not a natural law.

The only natural law is that which simply is - nature is. That is it. 

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5552267 - 04/24/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:

blaze2 said:
ahhh your endless ingnorance.




Conversational terrorism.

Honestly man your playign the terrorism card?  I thought that was supposed to be the last resort of the government?

Quote:


  Ok  do you know that teh kittens were well?  How do you know that the mother cat didnt know more about her own kitten than you?




How do you know she wasn't just hungry?

I dont.  I didnt say I did.  but I can be pretty sure that if you saw the cat then it was a pet and usually pets dont go hungry.  If it was a stray then yes its quite possible she couldnt see a way to provide for her young, and as such made the hard decision. 

Quote:


  Its quite possible they were sick and not well.  In the world of animals you do not waste.




She was probably responding to the fact that she could not support the number of kittens that she gave birth to, I would imagine that such is the scientific hypothesis concerning the situation. Can a trailerpark mom who has more children than she can feed or raise in decent conditions murder her children?

just because its your hypothesis doesnt make it the scientific one bro.  No the "trailer park mother"(nice job taking the high ground there perpetuating a stereotype by the way.) doesnt have the right to murder her kids.  What you fail to grasp is that any animal can only work with what they have.  We have the ability to give our kids up for adoption, a cat does not.

If one is to state that animals have an inborn sense of right and wrong, and that we are animals, then the behaviors that animals engage in dictate our own concept of right and wrong. Which is to say, of course, wrong. :grin:

Not at all.  The behaviors dont dictate our right and wrong sense, our right and wrong sense dictates the behaviors.  Your all backwards. 

Quote:


  A human born with defects is killed by doctors.




Is that the policy? Your statement is an observation of reality, which means it is testable. Medicial technology has advanced simply as a result of striving to allow children with birth defects to survive.

In some cases babies are born with their brains outside of their skull, the doctor can do nothing and if it wasnt a late term abortion the child dies upon exiting the womb.  Many times children are born with birthdefects and can only live for a few days.  Yes the doctors try to make them live as logn as they can, but they know the child will die.  About oh 100 years ago the doctor would probrobly have ended its suffereing but  now we extend it.  One way is easier on the child and harder on the doctor, the other is harder for the child with no guilt for the doctor.  Surprise surprise which one our sheep of a nation view as right?

Quote:


This was just one example as you well know do you require me to spell out all the acts of animals as obeying the laws of God?




No, the examples you have provided have been sufficent enough for me to raise doubt agansit your stance that the examples are intended to support.

it must be nice to be that smart

Quote:


  If the dog couldnt go outside it could piss anywhere in the house it wants.  Why is it that many dogs decided to throw it you face by pissing in the same room as you.




Perhaps because they are occupying the room that you are in, as they are trying to let you know that you need to get off your ass and take them outside? :lol:

wow you just fuckin hit the nail on the head with that one.  What you said supports MY hypothesis not yours.  The dog is trying to communicate its needs to you.  You didnt do for it and it didnt do for you.  reverse of the golden rule.  Also prevelent in all nature and the basis for all our laws. 

Quote:


  Because they know it will piss you off.  its one of the few ways they can communicate unhappiness to us humans.




From what I have gathered from scientists that work with dogs, a dog urinates when he is afraid, as an expression of the social order of the dogs (relates to how puppies wet themselves and require their mother to clean them). If the dog has to piss and knows he will get punished for doing so inside, then it would be a natural result to become afraid if they saw you. Thus, piss.......

really you know dog pyschologists?  wow you seem to have an endless supply of unsubstantiated "expert"  opinions to back up your quakery.  Let me tell you what I have observed.  A dog pisses because he has to piss if he sees opportunity to use it as a message, he does.  This is why dogs mark their territory.  making use of one of their only "tools"  of communication.  Your situation is probrobly true in some cases but to assume its the only reason its ridiculous come on man your smarter than that. 



Quote:


God is just a word I know that it pisses off people like you who refuse to put a name on something insubstansial, but all the same its Nature if you prefer that better.




Natural laws? I am aware of cause and effect... that's all I can think of. :grin:

cause and effect is the basis of all natural laws.  Piss a guy off he isnt nice to you anymore.  Do unto others is based on this.  Think about it man.  Open your mind up to ALL the possibilities not just teh ones you percieve, and get stated here.  I can name a thousand instances, but I dont need to You live in this world tooyou've seen just as many. 



Quote:

Does that mean there wont be any execptions?  of course not, but the execptions are working against Nature, and that is why they remain the small minority present in all groups of societal animals on earth. 




A parent eating its young is not working agansit Nature. Not being able to provide enough food for its young and to feed its own life would mean that the parent would starve unless it stopped caring for some of its young. This does not work agansit nature (how can you do that? :wtf:), it provides for its survival.

never in that post did I say teh cat was going against nature.  In fact I was supporting teh fact that it was working for nature.  YOU are the one woh cant see that as being right.  It is I assure you. 

Quote:


Further the golden rule "do unto others" has been observed countless times in all societal animals.  Monkeys cleaning each others fleas, the cleaner fish and shimp on a coral reef trusting they wont be eaten by the larger fish teh clean, etc etc.  This is also God's Law as we all know.  Or nature if you prefer.




Dogs are societal animals, and they impose a hierarchy, which implies different animals in the society have different rights. "Do unto others" does not apply, the survival of some dogs depends on taking it like a bitch and staying in one's place - not reacting with the same (as in, do unto others as they do to you). Such an example underscores the fact that "do unto others" is not a natural law.

just because they organize themselves does not go against the golden rule.  If someone in the group was being attacked by an outsider the group would help.  No matter how low on teh totem the dog is.  That is the point.  Inside  the group do unto others is shown by the way dogs sleep together to keep warm, their habits of  sharing food(granted the alpha usually goes first and takes more, but this is offset by the fact that he is the warrior leader, cant have an underfed warrior it just doesnt work.), and the fact that no one is set in their place in the pack(alphas eventually get old and the younger pups take over.  If the leader wants his pack to keep him around then you can rest assured he looks out for the needs of his pack.  if the alpha starts sucking at his job it wont be long before someone inside the pack, or outside even, takes his place.  But obviously the golden rule isnt present here :smirk:(look guys I can be a jack ass with smileys too  :thumbup:

The only natural law is that which simply is - nature is. That is it. 

Nature and God are one and the same.  "I AM WHO I AM"  pretty much says the same thing you just said.  Think on it man.

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:




--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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Offlineblaze2
The Witness
Male

Registered: 12/20/02
Posts: 1,883
Loc: San Antonio, TX
Last seen: 11 years, 8 months
Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5558604 - 04/26/06 12:55 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

Fireworks if you cant take down my arguments then you what? seek to have them dissappear? I got my warning. I still havent got a response from you. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson

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InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Obey the laws of man [Re: blaze2]
    #5558621 - 04/26/06 01:02 PM (17 years, 11 months ago)

I think you meant to send a PM.

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