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OfflineEchoVortex
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The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk!
    #554796 - 02/17/02 11:23 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

Anyone who has a serious interest in entheogens has probably heard the terms "set" and "setting." "Set" basically means where you stand in life, how you feel about yourself and your relationships, whether you have any psychiatric disorders, etc. "Setting" of course, means the circumstances in which you consume and experience the entheogenic substance. Most advice on how to have a "good" trip involves making sure that the set and setting are conducive to a pleasant experience. The point I wish to make is that sometimes it is valuable to deliberately arrange the "set" and "setting" so that you have a BAD trip.

Let me make clear from the start that this is something only experienced trippers should try. By "experienced," I mean people who have already experienced bad trips, not of their own choosing, and who have some idea of what to expect. People who have come out of those bad trips and still have all of their marbles intact. People who have also had plenty of good trips and who realize that a bad trip is not the be all and end all of the entheogenic experience.

Why try to have a bad trip? There are a lot of reasons. First of all, let us remind ourselves that entheogens are not "escapist" substances in the way the alcohol, weed, coke, smack, etc. are escapist substances. The point is not to run away from reality or to kill pain--the point is to achieve a deeper understanding of what life in general, and what your individual life, is all about. Now, reality is filled with a great deal of unpleasant and fucked up shit. Our lives, our relationships, our political structures, our culture, are all packed with bullshit up to the gills. One reason for this is because modern life for most people IS already a drug, albeit a drug of the "escapist" variety--we dose ourselves on television, on mindless entertainment, on shopping, and most importantly, on the little and big lies we tell ourselves every day just in order to make to the end of the day and fall into bed, exhausted and deluded. Society thrives on these delusions, the delusions of the masses who think that this is the way reality is, has been, and always must be.

A so-called "bad" trip is a trip in which all of this bullshit comes to the surface of consciousness. Unpleasant thoughts which we normally supress take on mass and shape, they become impossible to ignore. All of the problems we usually avoid, all the lies we tell ourselves, come howling back at us with a vengeance. We can't escape anymore. We have to face that reality.

This is horrible, of course. But it is also an awakening. Unlike what the New Age camp wants to believe, spirituality isn't just about goodness and light. There are incredibly dark forces at work in the world, there IS such a thing as evil, and the only way people, as individuals and as a society, can grow stronger and better is by facing up to the evil that exists both in us and around us and gauging its true power and extent. Bad trips are one of the many ways of doing that.

How do you have a bad trip? If you want to do it the safe way, try starting off by watching a really disturbing movie or documentary while tripping. "Dancer in the Dark" comes to mind, or "Breaking the Waves" by Lars von Trier. Documentaries on the state of the global environment are uniformly depressing. Try one of those. As a second stage, try going to a club or a party where you despise both the people and the music. Try tripping after you have a fight with your parents or girlfriend or roommate or whatever. Claustrophobic spaces are also great for this. Any situation that pisses you off or depresses you even when stone sober is a pretty good bet for a bad trip.

For more advanced and courageous initiates, try tripping in a really bad part of town. If you hate big cities, go trip in the biggest, dirtiest city near you. If you hate rednecks, go hang out where they do and trip there. If you're really fucking nutters, trip while riding the most frightening amusement park ride you can find. Go somewhere unfamiliar, with no money in your pocket, get lost, and trip.

Once you're back down to baseline, spend the next few days thinking about the experience and maybe write down some of your memories and observations. The one thing that makes bad trips such as these manageable is that you at least know that it was YOUR choice to have a bad trip and this, at the very least, should give a certain sense of balance and control

Once again, be advised to carry out these experiments in a relatively sane and rational way. The purpose is definitely not to go and get yourself killed or wind up in the hospital. Try to establish some kind of safety net, like taking a sober friend along or at least telling a friend what you're planning to do and making sure they have some way to get to you in case something goes wrong.

You may find that, with the proper precautions, a deliberately bad trip may be one of the most rewarding experiences you can ever have. It will make you grateful for your normal, everyday life, and it will make you doubly grateful for the good trips that are waiting for you down the road.


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Invisibletak
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #555729 - 02/18/02 11:22 PM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I have learned so much more form bad trips than anything, and when i think right now, they didt hurt too bad. But then i think again...at the time they were prety awful. The thing that is scary is people do stupid stuff on bad trips, often trying to escape, you can tell yourself you are on drugs, but that doesnt always help, alot of people often contenplate suicide to end the madness. Or get arrested, or in trouble, etc etc. Be careful if you trip, or plan on having a bad trip


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OfflineUnknown
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: tak]
    #556004 - 02/19/02 07:32 AM (14 years, 9 months ago)

I second the motion that "bad trips" have value,but I like my trips as unstructured as possible,as I prefer life,anything could happen in this situation and it feels less postured and more natural.People who take psychedelics just to see pretty colors and play nintendo may not see the value in this,but thats the same kind of people that need to take an assload of depressants to dull any potential negative emotion that could come up during a trip,and never learn a damn thing.


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The above is just like,my opinion man


Edited by Unknown (02/19/02 07:34 AM)


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Offlinecmoss419
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: EchoVortex]
    #16476024 - 07/03/12 06:33 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I can also vouch for bad trips being very educational. Although I have no desire to experience anymore because I ended up acting very violent and if i had access to a gun at the time I would've killed people and probably myself. Please be cautious while experimenting. I've learned what not to do and avoid the bad ones. Very frightening experiences. Awesome post though.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: cmoss419]
    #16480427 - 07/04/12 03:16 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

You resurrected a TEN YEAR OLD thread????  Mistake #1.  Mistake # 2 was resurrecting a post which contains the most horrid proposal I ever read.  Intentional BAD trip???  'Cmon now...you cannot be serious!

No wonder it died ten years ago with only a handful of responses.  Bad trips HAPPEN.  Yes, we can sometimes learn from them.  But to affirmatively seek to produce one is ludicrous.  Why not just take a razor into the corner and cut your forearms while you are at it, or drop a ten pound weight onto your toe?  The whole notion of self-inflicted bad times could only be proposed (and enjoyed by) a sadist.

N.B.


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Offlinecmoss419
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16483388 - 07/05/12 03:01 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't mean to cause you a spasm. The date of the thread didn't mean shit to me. I don't care about dates or time for that matter. Nice to know I can piss people off by just typing a few words. "Slit my wrist"? What the hell's wrong with you?


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InvisibleVore

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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: cmoss419]
    #16485800 - 07/05/12 07:14 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Im okay with this thread getting necroed. Its an idea that doesnt get a lot of attention but has merit. I think it is good to have an intention to go over a subject you are having difficulty with in your life. The ego often prevents you from seeing a problem clearly. What i disagree with in ops post deals with safety. If before a trip, you write down some things that you are having difficulties with, I think an infrequent lowe dose trip in the comfort of your own home going over difficult issues can be very beneficial. It can often be safer going into a trip like this than burying it only to have an unexpected bad trip later. Caution is the rule of thumb here though, I wouldnt advise a change in setting or set in a physical sense, but seeking to understand them both in a safe environment can be good.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: cmoss419]
    #16486476 - 07/05/12 09:30 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cmoss419 said:
"Slit my wrist"? What the hell's wrong with you?




Nothing is wrong with me.  What is wrong with your reading comprehension?  I didn't suggest the activities as anything but examples of other STUPID, meritless ideas - just like intentionally creating the setting for a bad trip or resurrecting a 10 year old thread...another failure to read and understand.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


Edited by Nature Boy (07/05/12 09:31 PM)


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Offline999
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16510644 - 07/10/12 07:08 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Quote:

cmoss419 said:
"Slit my wrist"? What the hell's wrong with you?




Nothing is wrong with me.  What is wrong with your reading comprehension?  I didn't suggest the activities as anything but examples of other STUPID, meritless ideas - just like intentionally creating the setting for a bad trip or resurrecting a 10 year old thread...another failure to read and understand.

N.B.




I disagree, Nature Boy...
You are being very abrasive, is something else bothering you? I like this post, while I wouldn't at this point in my life attempt this.
This isn't spam, this isn't a commonly discussed thing...
Relax, and, if you wish to flame an idea, philosophy, person, etc... I would like to ask you to do it on another board.
Personally, I'd love to see more responses to this idea.


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Leapin' and hoppin' on a moonshadow, Moonshadow, moon Shadow.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: 999]
    #16513038 - 07/11/12 07:12 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Bad ideas NEVER become good ideas, no matter how much time (like ten years) goes by.  The whole notion of attempting to induce a bad trip is a stupid idea.  Part of the problem is that stupid ideas sometimes appeal to stupid people, who tend not to think for themselves.  They read shit like this and think...why not??

I'll tell you why not.  Bad trips can and do lead to bad consequences for good folks.  Illness (passing out, vomiting, aspiration) injury (falling, cutting oneself, car accidents) legal consequences (cops getting called, getting arrested, time in jail, expelled from school) even death (running into traffic, drowning like that poor 18 year old just yesterday).

The whole notion of suggesting to others, promoting or supporting any behavior which runs the risk of INCREASING harm is utterly irresponsible and sickens me.  Abrasive to this concept???  You betcha.

Finally, when bad trips and bad shit happen and it is tied to the use of psychedelics, the whole psychedelic community suffers.  It supports the false premise, already VERY strong in the media and the minds of John Q. Public, that these substances have no value, no benefit, which of course we know is false.  We are CONSTANTLY in a battle against this kind of propaganda, and assholes doing asshole type irresponsible acts such as proposed in this thread are anathema to competing in this publicity war.  It only takes a few people to spoil it for EVERYONE.

Anyone who suggests otherwise hasn't though this through.  Bad trips WILL happen, and need to be planned for.  There is no need to go out of your way in either set, setting or dosage to produce them.

The reason this thread died ten years ago with only a couple of posts is because it was a stupid idea THEN, as NOW for the reasons cited.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16513049 - 07/11/12 07:24 AM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Nature boy (I'm one too)
What do you think about ayahuasca???


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InvisibleVore

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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16516680 - 07/11/12 11:06 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:No wonder it died ten years ago with only a handful of responses.




The thread is now up to 11 responses, does that mean somehow the idea has become more valid? I appreciate your words of caution, and I don't think its wise to cause a bad trip in public both the dangers implicit for the user and the drug community, nor do I think someone should take a 10-strip with the intention of having a bad trip, but a lot of trips are working through deep psychological issues your ego is protecting you from.

If you feel an issue is coming up, and you know your next trip will probably pull your focus there, what is wrong with taking a low dow dose with the expectation of going over it and figuring out what's really bothering you?


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OfflineLastBreath
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Vore]
    #16530428 - 07/14/12 03:26 PM (4 years, 4 months ago)

.


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Edited by LastBreath (08/03/12 02:40 PM)


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InvisibleVitalux
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: cmoss419]
    #16636113 - 08/02/12 10:21 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I'm glad this post was reposted.
I found it quite thought provoking and interesting to read.

thank you:thumbup:


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Vitalux]
    #16637533 - 08/03/12 02:48 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

I agree, but Nature boy is right that trying to have a bad experience in an unsafe setting is an incredibly terrible idea - even for experienced trippers. For some people trying to have a bad experience is a terrible idea in general.

It can be beneficial, but it can also go horribly wrong. Only you know your mind well enough to decide which outcome is most likely. Even then you might not want to take the risk - and that's absolutely fine.


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Stand up. You're not alone.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16638148 - 08/03/12 06:48 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

i watched Breaking the Waves on Mushrooms and plenty of disturbing movies. it's awesome.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16638203 - 08/03/12 07:17 AM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Just look at the Shroomery news service lately.  No fewer than THREE articles on folks having bad trips on bath salts (synthetic cannabinoids) and doing seriously heinous things, some of which involved the death of people.

Do you think that reflects well on our community????  It is foolish and wrong to pursue a bad trip intentionally.  Borderline immoral.  We all know it happens from time to time, even with the best of preparations...but one should never, ever, attempt to provoke a descent into the darker recesses of the human psyche.  The risk to yourself and others is just too great.  And here is your proof:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633654

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633693

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633747

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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OfflineLord_McLovin
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16639050 - 08/03/12 12:19 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Bath salt stories? I thought we were talking about psychs here. :shrug:


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OfflineLastBreath
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Nature Boy]
    #16639680 - 08/03/12 02:33 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Nature Boy said:
Just look at the Shroomery news service lately.  No fewer than THREE articles on folks having bad trips on bath salts (synthetic cannabinoids) and doing seriously heinous things, some of which involved the death of people.

Do you think that reflects well on our community????  It is foolish and wrong to pursue a bad trip intentionally.  Borderline immoral.  We all know it happens from time to time, even with the best of preparations...but one should never, ever, attempt to provoke a descent into the darker recesses of the human psyche.  The risk to yourself and others is just too great.  And here is your proof:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633654

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633693

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/16633747

N.B.





This would have been better if you had posted links to violent incidents involving psychedelics. There was a MMA fighter who cut someones heart out while on a mushroom trip, but thats the only one I can think of off the top of my head.


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OfflineNature Boy
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Re: The value of bad trips--Read at your own risk! [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #16640663 - 08/03/12 05:45 PM (4 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Bath salt stories? I thought we were talking about psychs here. :shrug:




We're talking about the wisdom (or lack thereof) of actively, intentionally inducing bad trips...no particular substance is being singled out as the source of the bad trip.

N.B.


--------------------
All submitted posts under this user name are works of pure fiction or outright lies.  Any information, statement, or assertion contained therein should be considered pure unadulterated bullshit.  Note well:  Sorry, but I do not answer PM's unless you are a long-time trusted friend.  If you have a question, ask it in the appropriate thread.

                                                                               


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