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InvisiblePsychoslut
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I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f
    #5544132 - 04/22/06 01:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thats all.

Ill add to this. You guys apparently want feed back but then when we give feedback you tell us why our feedback sucks or why you dont wanna do nothing about our idea or problem or it belongs in a different forum and you lock it.

I dont think thats very nice at all.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


Edited by Psychoslut (04/22/06 01:29 PM)


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5544231 - 04/22/06 02:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

agreed

There needs to be an open forum to take up issues with mods/admins.
Even if its mostly threads filled with Swama, it would be nice if we could have the freedom to express dissent, somewhere other than otd.

this thread will undoubtedly be locked.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5544259 - 04/22/06 02:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I PMed Geo with more thoughts about this thread and stuff because for some reason he thinks that talking about this stuff in public is no good.


Ive noticed though that if the feedback isn't good its locked. If it has anything to do with drama or a mod or admin having or needing to do something its super fast locked.

I think that if us members have a place to talk about a discrepancy or idea openly maybe we would work out the problem ourselves and the mods and admins wouldn't even need to get involved. Or if we are actually allowed time to discuss an idea like a porno forum or something along that lines maybe all the different ideas would show the admins why it is actually a great idea.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


Edited by Psychoslut (04/22/06 02:33 PM)


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Offlineshirley knott
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5544337 - 04/22/06 02:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

there is a porno forum, and it's nonstop redhot in there


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buh


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: shirley knott]
    #5544372 - 04/22/06 02:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

nunt uh for realz?


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5544456 - 04/22/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I do realize I have been locking many threads as of late. But I do this in efforts to keep the forum organized as an effective platform for bringing new ideas to light, announcing changes, or soliciting the membership for feedback on new implementations. To let you in on my line of thinking (and since I have about an hour before I can lay down the next coat of primer on a cabinet I'm building), allow me to review the last ten or so locks I've initiated here.
  • Threads: Can I have my own suicide smiley.... & ALSO: We respectfully request an "OMG BURN LOL" smiley
    Regarding: The addition of a new smiley
    Reasoning for the lock: These matters are hardly integral to the effective operation of our BB. In order to combat such regular requests from flooding our WA&F forum, a thread was created specifically for this purpose: Submit New Smileys Here!
    Final notes: Self-explanatory - if there's already a dedicated thread for a matter, don't create redundant new ones!

  • Thread: wow.
    Regarding: the absence of a 420 skin for the BB.
    Reason for the lock: Since the thread had become engulfed in "chat-like" behavior, I perceived that no productive action would come of it, particularly given that 420 is now over. Chat-like behavior includes comments such as:
    "and what about club baby seals day?"
    "Thats gay, i swear to god my shroomery had raining little red hearts scrolling down my screen.
    now that i think of it more it may of been a link somebody posted that made it do that.
    or maybe i was on shrooms.
    one time i was on acid and i had this guy floating around in my OEV'S"
    Final note: This thread could have been left open, but as two of the participants are notorious for chatting up WA&F (namely HELLA_TIGHT and Psychoslut), I decided I may as well curb what could become a lengthy off-topic thread.

  • Thread: I think Micosematrix's ban should be held off until after 4/20
    Regarding: OTD forum-specific ban
    Reasoning for lock: We do not hold disciplinary action on trial in the court of public opinion here, simply because it confuses the issue and introduces too many opinions (many of which have no basis for verification), and ultimately make it more difficult to decide upon a unified course of action. Calling for unbanning simply because it was a friend or associate of yours that got nabbed, or because it is a holiday, is not sufficient reasoning to overturn a ban. Lastly, it has been noted in the WA&F forum description, in bold print for the last year: "This is not a forum to contest disciplinary action. Please use our Support Ticket System for such matters, providing as much related information as possible."
    Final notes: If you have relevant information relating to why a ban may not be warranted - we do want to hear it. But please do so through the proper channels, as not to rile up the general populous and create more "drama" which in turns only serves to burn out the staff here and make management less effective. If you have issue with YOUR ban, and feel your actions did not warrant the disciplinary sentence carried out, please try to reconcile your differences with the moderator who implemented the action. If they don't listen and you still feel you have evidence that merits reconsideration, PM an administrator with links or submit such links/evidence through our Support Ticket System.

  • Thread: False trade rating
    Regarding: A false trade rating
    Reasoning for lock: The matter was resolved and there was no need for more discussion.
    Final Notes: This is a prime example of a matter that should have been brought to an administrator via PM or the support ticket system - as we do not want to draw negative attention to any alleged false trade raters in the event that their rating was in fact legitimate.

  • Thread: So I'm banned from PA&L
    Regarding: PA&L forum ban
    Reasoning for lock: As noted above, this forum is not for putting matters of banning up for public opinion. If you have specific reasoning that you believe we ought to consider, which may in turn effect the duration or legitimacy of the action, it should be presented directly to the administration through PM's or the Support Ticket System.

  • Thread: Rono banned me from OTD (30 days) in retaliation for yesterday..
    Regarding: An OTD forum ban implemented on account of flooding the forum with targeted harassment aimed towards a specific user.
    Reasoning for lock: Both the moderator and banned party agreed to settle their differences through a reduced sentence, and a wiping of the slate provided the banned party can maintain their end of the deal throughout the period of the 7 day reduced sentence.
    Final Notes: No need for continued discussion - though it would have been nicer if the user and moderator had worked out their disagreement in private.

  • Thread: I want my red name damnit....
    Regarding: Supporter account payment and resulting status
    Reason for lock: Being handled personally through PM with the user.

  • Thread: I'm concerned with RESTLESS' excessive puppetry
    Regarding: Overt front for the solicitation of a mod position by the thread starter.
    Reasoning for lock: We do not accept open requests for moderation. Moderators are either nominated through the community at specified intervals, typically within a thread in the forum needing the new appointment. Sometimes a departing moderator will leave a list of nominees. Ultimately, the names of nominees are run by the staff for any personal conflicts (as we want to inspire cooperation between all staffers), and the administration will make the final decision.
    Final Notes: We don't need a dedicated "puppet hunting" mod, as banning people based on the puppetry clause can get out of hand when speculations begin to be held as truth too readily.

  • Thread: My old log-in is still inactive...
    Regarding: A user who apparently has two accounts active simultaneously, requesting the deletion of one.
    Reason for lock: The matter was resolved and no further discussion was necessary


Now all that being said, I simply don't like to see this forum become overly chatty - because as I feel it is part of my responsibility to actively browse this forum, it becomes considerably more of a chore when 50% of what I'm reading has nothing to do with direct feedback on problem matters or suggestions for site improvement. Therefore, I will continue to do what I can to close up threads that become burdened with off topic banter, because we already have two forums for that - and this isn't one of 'em! Outdated or irrelevent threads will of course also be closed or moved to another, more relevant forum.

As for Psychoslut's statement above: "I PMed Geo with more thoughts about this thread and stuff because for some reason he thinks that talking about this stuff in public is no good." He may feel that I believe talking about these issues in public is no good, but I never even replied to the PM in question. In fact, the PM in question is skirting upon the reply feed from a personal matter that he had brought to me regarding a ban of his, which I addressed entirely and did not make any mention of WA&F or the policies I stand by in its maintenance. As for this particular thread, I will not lock it so long as it maintains constructive conversation. But when I feel it is running in circles or people are just mumblin' about matters unrelated to the function of this forum, then yes of course I will lock it.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5544478 - 04/22/06 03:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Ill add to this. You guys apparently want feed back but then when we give feedback you tell us why our feedback sucks or why you dont wanna do nothing about our idea or problem or it belongs in a different forum and you lock it.


Just because your idea does not get implemented, does not mean we didn't hear you out.  We will not agree with many of the suggestions that are put forth, and in many cases we will express the reasoning behind our disagreement, hence "why [your] feedback sucks." :rolleyes:


Quote:

Dreamer987 said:
There needs to be an open forum to take up issues with mods/admins.
Even if its mostly threads filled with Swama, it would be nice if we could have the freedom to express dissent, somewhere other than otd.


I disagree about the need for an open forum, as stated in my above post regarding one of the thread locks I reviewed.  Precisely because such a forum would be prone to being "filled with Swama" - makes it incredibly undesirable.  We lost staffers over that matter because it got so blown out of proportion, and I don't intend to open up avenues to encourage that to happen again.  When it comes down to it, there is a hierarchy in place.  Our moderators are delegated with responsibility over their respective forums, and we trust them to be for the most part, fair and just.  When they are not, we do have an avenue setup for you to express your perception directly to the administration, as ultimately the mods can only have their privileges revoked by administrative action.  These avenues for dissension primarily include the private message (first directly to a moderator - subsequently to an administrator for appeal), the Support Ticket System, and to a lesser and certainly less productive extent, our Off-Topic Discussion forum.

You may not like or agree with our judgment, but simply stated - if the administration has made a decision on a matter that has been reviewed multiple times (ie. by the initial mod action, by subsequent mod petition, and ultimately by administrative review), there isn't anything that may be said in the public forum that is going to reverse the action.    Instead, public bickering will only serve to down-regulate our interest in hearing you out.. as you will probably be repeating things that we've already heard or come to understand throughout the extended course of the debate.  This repetition burns us out, and will ultimately diminish our effectiveness in responding promptly to matters related to the administration of the community and website. 

Furthermore, such prolonged dissension can harm the collective staff as some staffers are more prone to involving themselves in the discussion, whereas others may just blow it off.  Therefore, the continual and repetitive assault of a select few vocal participants against the staff, with no continuing collective response directly from the staff (on account of them being tired of repeating themselves), can give the outside impression that we are more incompetent and uncaring than we in fact are.  Coupled with the fact that we have a relatively large young-adult population, which is notorious for rebelling against authority (hey I'm one myself!), would maintain a disproportionate amount of fuel for the dissenters.  This wouldn't be good for staff morale, or the public perception of the community at large - and therefore, is why I do not believe a public forum for dissension to be in the best interests of the website.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544523 - 04/22/06 04:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

This thread has been locked!

reason: irony.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544576 - 04/22/06 04:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Can you give me a long story short? I dont read more than 20 words at a time before i need to rest my brain.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544612 - 04/22/06 04:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

We understand that you run on a dictatorship,
and i support the shroomery, and its administration. But free speech would make the place better. There needs to be a forum for open dissent. When you guys fuck up, we should be able to let you know, without our threads being locked.
If you can handle it, it will make you better administrators.


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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5544655 - 04/22/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A long time ago, I said we needed a courtroom forum, where only guilt or wrong action is identified through a selected jury of our peers once the proper debate/discussion protocol has been satisfied.

The only hard part about this is finding someone who is willing and knowledgable enough to play the mediator.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5544703 - 04/22/06 05:33 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Yes there should be a place that members are free to discuss moderators and their actions. Otherwise you get an environment which lends itself to tyranny.


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InvisibleSimisu
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Psychoslut]
    #5544709 - 04/22/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Psychoslut said:
Can you give me a long story short? I dont read more than 20 words at a time before i need to rest my brain.




:rolleyes:

you should say thanks geo is even bothering to respond...

i think a long story short would be "STFU pretty please?"  :wink:


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5544710 - 04/22/06 05:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Psychoslut, your lack of attention span is not my problem.

Dreamer, free speech exists in the appropriate forums/channels. It does not exist everywhere, because we also strive to maintain some order in efforts to keep topics organized, easily referenced, and suitable for pleasant discussion. OTD is our exercise in the free-est of speech you will find here. It may not be perfect, but it IS a forum for open dissent. I have in fact witnessed threads garnering 300+ replies in OTD (including replies from mods and admins), relating specifically to staff policy or a specific action that was taken by a staff member over my tenure here. While many of us do read these debates, we also reserve the right not to openly comment upon them. Regardless, you still have your outlet to dissent.

If you think we've fucked up, then by all means please tell us. We are not preventing you from expressing your dissent to us, but we ask that you do it in an orderly fashion conducive to practical and efficient management. For example, if you end up bringing up a concern in OTD, provided that you presented your case clearly (you could even PM a link to those who you believe should weigh in on the conversation; user, mod, and admin alike), any legitimate gripe which concerns our members will result in the thread no doubt flourishing with debate. However, bringing up specific staff actions do not require the input of all members, as only the member(s) involved in the specific action are privy to the circumstances, and therefore by involving the entire membership, many distorted or misinformed viewpoints will emerge to confuse the situation. I've seen it happen!

If on the other hand you bring a matter to us in private, that we feel could use more public discussion in order to gauge overall public opinion, we will open up a topic outlining the proposition, our perceived pros and cons, and ask the membership for feedback. But I will not let this forum become overrun by redundant requests or solicitations for favors that we don't wish to grant (which are exactly what the majority of the threads I lock, are about). You have your open dissent, you simply need to present it through the channels we have created for it. Hell, add a campaign slogan to your signature, linking to a thread in OTD if you wish. If it becomes apparent that a large portion of our membership disagrees with our position on a given matter - we will likely revise it, or request additional feedback from the membership through this forum as noted above.

Mind you, there are policy matters which are perfectly suitable for discussion in this forum. But these are general policy issues related to the rules of a given forum or the entire site, things that affect the community at large and not just a select person or group of persons. Such issues might include questioning of the "no sources or dosages" rule in ODD, perhaps the "no locations" rule in Mush Hunt, or the topic of this very thread right here! - just realize that in all likelihood, these topics have been debated before, and have resulted in the current setup.

To me your complaint sounds analogous to a student who just had his exam handed back to him and would rather disrupt an ongoing lecture by interrupting the teacher with a complaint about his personal score, rather than calmly waiting until the lecture was over and speaking with the teacher after class or during office hours. We don't need additional public spectacle, we get enough as it is.. but if you must have it - there is a forum for it - it just isn't WA&F!


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Simisu]
    #5544716 - 04/22/06 05:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

simisu said:

i think a long story short would be "STFU pretty please?"  :wink:




Haha.. amen :tongue2::spliff:


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OfflineDreamer987
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544746 - 04/22/06 05:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

meh, different strokes.
Your doing a hell of a job btw. Thank you for taking the time to explaine your stance.


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544777 - 04/22/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was j/k. I read what you said. I wanted to read it or I wouldn't of asked for it. I understand you don't what this forum to get too chatty. I just think you could let the threads go a little bit longer before throwing the lock on thats all. There has been several times that I would of liked to said something important in a thread I or somebody made but couldn't cause theres a lock on it and there's only been like 5 or so posts in the thread.

But this is your web site and i understand that you are giving me a privilege by letting me post here so I'm done with this topic (but other people may not be so thats not a cue to lock) cause i said what i wanted.


I thought I was notorious for avatars that make people puke :lol:.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


Edited by Psychoslut (04/22/06 06:02 PM)


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InvisiblePsychoslut
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: Dreamer987]
    #5544799 - 04/22/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Dreamer987 said:
meh, different strokes.
Your doing a hell of a job btw. Thank you for taking the time to explaine your stance.




fo shizzle.


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[quote]KristiMidocean said:
Good now thats clear.WHO FUCKING CARES. If I am fat u all keep pointing it out like its suppose to be a secret.LIke u really have nothing better to do then make fat jokes. If o know its like I do I know yall can come up with NEW AND BETTER SHIT . This shit is old and boring . I left in the first place cause this shit got boring not because of the fat jokes . Fat jokes dont bother me but seriously its old[/quote]


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544852 - 04/22/06 06:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I was rather disappointed with the lack of admin response in my recent WAF thread contesting my OTD ban, especially since my support ticket was closed without comment because of that thread's goings on...

The only admin response I got was after I had already decided to accept a deal because I was getting absolutely no administrator response. :rolleyes: And that response consisted only of acknowledging that a deal had been made, but did not address any of the core issues raised in the thread at all?!! :wtf:

Could you at least comment on what the admin position is on what is acceptable behavior for members and moderators alike in OTD? Like, give us a compass man, have some compassion...

I am keeping with the 7 day ban deal mind you, I'd just like to hear some answers to the issues raised in that thread if possible, after all there were quite a few people other than just myself in that thread that raised a lot of interesting but as of yet unanswered questions... :shrug:


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: I think the admins lock threads too much in wsa&f [Re: geokills]
    #5544910 - 04/22/06 06:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The real problem in my opinion is this:

Quote:

While some of our guidelines are relaxed, we do reserve the right to enforce them at any time.




That kind of leaves one wondering what is truly acceptable, doesn't it?

Why not just say that OTD has it's own set of guidelines that must be adhered to while using OTD, and then clearly state what those guidelines are?


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