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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5529996 - 04/18/06 05:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I wasn't joking. My mother actually believes that.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5530023 - 04/18/06 05:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

LOL!!!!

Actually I am not that surprised...I've heard worse. I come from Greece!!!!!People swearing as they were steping on each other to touch a "holy" image of christ.That has left a mark on my mind. A mark to remind me of how stupid most christians are.


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5530058 - 04/18/06 06:04 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It's a powerful set of ideas for people, Christianity is. Believers are tenacious. I was a devout Catholic for most of my life. It is very easy to believe if you've been raised that way. It is still unnerving for me to joke about satan and hell. I was singing in the car the other day, "I sell my soul to Satan! I am doomed to hell forever!" in order to come to terms with my belief that those words are false.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5530139 - 04/18/06 06:32 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I believe most Christians might say that those who never had a chance to hear of Jesus would be saved automatically. If that's true, then wouldn't it be better if no one was ever taught of Jesus? That way, you don't even run the risk of going to hell.

Tell me what you think.



"Most Christians" so called are wrong, and in fact have never been converted and they certainly do not believe the gospel as defined in Scriptures.

God has from eternity past determined to save a people from His righteous wrath. Scripture plainly states that all those who will inherit eternal life will hear and believe and be converted by the power of the Holy Spirit. The reason this truth is so fervently resisted by most so called "Christians" is because they have never been convicted of sin by the Spirit, for if they had been, they would know that it is entirely just for God to damn them and the entire race. They do not see themselves or others as deserving wrath, because they are ignorant of God's righteousness, and they do not believe the testimony of Scripture. Every elect vessel of mercy will in time be converted and believe the gospel, which is that Jesus Christ alone atoned for the sins of His people and that salvation is entirely apart from human merit and solely based on free sovereign grace.

Fallen man is born in sin, and is imputed guilty in Adam. This imputation precedes any works performed. Man is constituted already condemned judicially, and personal sins only testify of his fallen nature.

The demands of the law are stringent, and without mercy. God can not show mercy at the expense of His righteousness. This is why Christ had to come and take the full brunt of punishment on behalf of His people. This is the only way God can remain both just and at the same time justifier.

I hope that all those reading this may come to see the righteous demands of the law, and feel the weight of it, and the absolutely hopeless condition that they are in, and my then see the relief from the law and the mercy of God in the face of Jesus Christ.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5530178 - 04/18/06 06:44 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I am sorry but am I the only one who can not stand hearing that fairy-tale for the millionth time?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5530232 - 04/18/06 07:04 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

fivepointer said:
I hope that all those reading this may come to see the righteous demands of the law, and feel the weight of it, and the absolutely hopeless condition that they are in, and my then see the relief from the law and the mercy of God in the face of Jesus Christ.



Actually, I think most people reading your posts will just see the ugly ignorance and intolerance that is fundamentalism.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Shroomerious]
    #5530242 - 04/18/06 07:06 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

I think it rather catholic (i.e., universal) and magnanimous of Augustine to see the "Christian religion" as the latest manifestation of the "Perennial Philosophy." Of course he would have this bias. After being a playboy and a Neoplatonist, and some nine years as a Manichean (they did not advance him in grade in that system), he became, at his mother's behest, a Christian. He developed the theology of the Holy Trinity and despite his psychological backlash at womankind, he was one of the most profound thinkers in Catholic Christianity.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: fivepointer]
    #5530584 - 04/18/06 08:57 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

whatever


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5530736 - 04/18/06 09:40 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)





"Actually, I think most people reading your posts will just see the ugly ignorance and intolerance that is fundamentalism."




Ever notice how only cops really like other cops, and lawyers only are able to like other lawyers? I think fundamentalists are another one of these groups. One has to identify strongly with being one of these roles to find another person with the same role as acceptable. Otherwise, everyone outside of that identity is regarded with suspicion, or is fair game to exploit or criticize, and who likes being regarded thusly? All roles exemplify different breeds of arrogance and different levels of morality: law-and-order morality, professional ethics at best with no personal morality, and superego morality projected onto a supernal male parent. Notice how these three groups find the serious psychedelic user particularly threatening to their individual power trips. We live in a world with fuzzy boundaries rather than stainless steel edges, yet general, global, intuitive sensibilities of Good and Evil are often so much more developed, like Compassion is Good and cruelty is Evil.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5530897 - 04/18/06 10:15 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Romans 2:

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

14Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them. 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


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hello, your name is life on earth
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"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: JCoke]
    #5531317 - 04/18/06 11:37 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

And YOUR point about Paul's letter to the Romans is with regard to my post?


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OfflineLearyfanS
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5534256 - 04/19/06 06:43 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

So do you guys think that those who have never heard of Christ get a free pass?






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OfflineBasilides
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5534533 - 04/19/06 07:49 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

God absorbs everything She can, that's how I sorta see it. If it mixes, it'll live. :smirk:


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5534821 - 04/19/06 08:50 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

To say that those who never heard of Christ will get a free pass is as absurd as to say that only Christians go to heaven.


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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OfflineDimmy
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Basilides]
    #5534841 - 04/19/06 08:55 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Christians believe that those who died not knowing of jeebus would go to purgatory. Just read Dante's inferno, Cesar and Cleopatra where all chillin in the purg because they died before jeebus was around.

They also believe that the "second coming" cannot take place until every living soul has had a chance to hear the stories and accept jew boy into their heart.

just a little side note. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. basically Jews only believe in the Torah aka the "old testament" but, Christians believe in both old and new testaments. Judaism clearly outlines the things the Jewish messiah must complete and if he does not fulfill even one of those things, he cannot be considered the messiah. Perhaps the most important thing the messiah is to accomplish is to establish an era of total world peace as well as obviously reveal the godliness of all things and the presence of g-d himself. Did Jesus do this? Hell No. So very conveniently Christians make up the concept of the second coming, claiming that anything he didn't accomplish in his first run will be taken care of when he comes back. There is no such concept in the Torah. For Jews a Messiah who dies before completing all the necessary things is no messiah at all.


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OfflineJCoke
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #5535066 - 04/19/06 09:40 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
And YOUR point about Paul's letter to the Romans is with regard to my post?




actully, I was responding to the original poster question, my bad.  :grin:


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hello, your name is life on earth
------------------------------------

"I traveled a long way seeking God, but when I finally gave up and turned back, there He was, within me! O Lalli! Now why do you wander like a beggar? Make some effort, and He will grant you a vision of Himself in the form of bliss in your heart." -the saint of the Kashmir Shaivism tradition: Lalli.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5535537 - 04/19/06 11:24 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
To say that those who never heard of Christ will get a free pass is as absurd as to say that only Christians go to heaven.




I agree.


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InvisibleLakefingers

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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5536407 - 04/20/06 04:39 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Quote:

Learyfan said:

....

I believe most Christians might say that those who never had a chance to hear of Jesus would be saved automatically. If that's true, then wouldn't it be better if no one was ever taught of Jesus? That way, you don't even run the risk of going to hell.

Tell me what you think.






I think Jesus is laughing at us for getting caught up on such questions. I think Jesus has cried ever since we could discuss what he really means within a Christian context -- that was when he was lost, that was when Christianity died.


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OfflineShroomerious
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Lakefingers]
    #5536914 - 04/20/06 11:29 AM (15 years, 8 months ago)

Whatever gets you through the night.


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OfflineEmptySpace
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Re: What of those who haven't heard of Christ? [Re: Learyfan]
    #5539196 - 04/20/06 11:12 PM (15 years, 8 months ago)

It is taught by Catholicism that Jesus Christ, The Holy Spirit, and God, are all one in nature. In body they are seperate, but to believe in one in essence is to believe in the other, in terms of their divine nature. So if you are Islamic, and believe in God, in reality by Catholic stand point, if you live by a certain morals, then you will be rewarded. Now I no longer practice Catholicism, but this philosophy allows some sort of buffer. So it depends on what you choose to believe, and not what other people insist it really is.


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We can't stop here - This is bat country.

-Duke--Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas


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