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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisibleshroomydan
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Nietzsche and the Neocons
    #5538182 - 04/20/06 03:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A thought struck me today and this is as good a place to record it as anywhere.


Nietzsche spoke of two types of morality, master morality and slave morality. He argued Christians and Jews share a slave morality with roots in the Jews enslavement by Egypt. Nietzsche's will to power constitutes a master morality, inimical to Christianity and especially to the Jews who started the whole slave morality phenomenon, which, through the Roman Empire, spread to all of Europe. The enmity between master-morality and slave-morality religion can be seen in Hitler's project which was grounded in Nietzschean philosophy.

The present Neo-Conservative movement seems to be embracing a master morality, evidenced especially by its revision of just war theory to allow for a preemptive strike, and by the subsequent conquest of Iraq. It seems those driving foreign policy believe America is master of the world (perhaps they are right)and not about to take caca from any of the lesser powers, including the UN.

Such a stance seems problematic to me because most of the neocons are Christians. If Christians have inherited what Nietzsche calls "slave morality" from their parents, and they have since abandoned the slave morality to to be neocons, who operate under a master morality, then have they also abandoned Christianity?

It seems to me that one cannot advocate first strike and wars of conquest, except while operating from a master morality perspective. It also seems that followers of Jesus Christ cannot adopt a master morality if they wish to remain faithful to the teachings of Jesus.

Are the neocons schizo?


Edited by shroomydan (04/20/06 03:54 PM)


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InvisibleLuddite
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5538606 - 04/20/06 05:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Are you a slave?


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OfflineDadeMurphy
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5538623 - 04/20/06 06:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Maybe these Nietzschean definitions and models are just inadequate, and don't properly apply to the current situation. Really...only "two types of morality", that doesn't sound like over-simplifying?


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: DadeMurphy]
    #5538877 - 04/20/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I don't know...

I thought Nietzsche made a good distinction. The master-morality is very natural, the law of the jungle, survival of the fittest, social Darwinism maybe...

The teachings of Christ: "The last shall be first and the first shall be last", "turn the other cheek", "love your enemies"...


Though there can be plenty of divisions within each camp, it seems to me that the "Might makes right" natural morality can not be reconciled with Christian strength-in-weakness morality.

That's just how it looks to me. And no, I am not a slave, but I am oppressed by my own ignorance and sin. I don't necessarily like Nietzsche's moniker, but my morality did begin with the Jews who were lead out of slavery.


Edited by shroomydan (04/21/06 06:02 PM)


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5538983 - 04/20/06 07:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Neocons are ascetics in their own rite.


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InvisibleRandalFlagg
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5539124 - 04/20/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Thus spoke Shroomydan.


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InvisibleRogues_Pierre
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: RandalFlagg]
    #5540196 - 04/21/06 06:40 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

When I was using meth for 3 weeks straight one time, I realized that the shadow people hiding in the trees were all neocons.


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OnlineSirTripAlot
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: Rogues_Pierre]
    #5541567 - 04/21/06 04:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Although insightful, Nietzsche philosophy posed more questions then answers.......most of his work when he was certifiably insane


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”


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Invisibleshroomydan
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #5541850 - 04/21/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Like with most madmen, Nietzsche's madness is punctuated with genius. I believe his distinction between master and slave morality is one of his moments of genius.


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Offlinekotik
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5546450 - 04/23/06 02:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Maybe these Nietzschean definitions and models are just inadequate, and don't properly apply to the current situation.




id have to agree. compared to jews and christians, or applied to religions, Nietzsche's polar opposites apply easily, but when you try to apply it to a group, it gets pretty complicated, especially with a country as mixed as the USA.

Now if you were to say Christians vs Muslims, that would make more sense to me. anyways just the .02 from another armchair _________ologist.


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No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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Invisiblepsilomonkey
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: shroomydan]
    #5546865 - 04/23/06 09:01 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think religious labels clouds the issue, just because you attached yourself to a religious brand name, it does not make you a saint. Nietzsche's master-morality, as he puts it, is a natural tendency of humans used to power.

Members of a ruling class with the thirst to increase or maintain power will justify what would normally be a highly immoral act, such as killing, as being a point of moral singularity. The rules don't apply, because of the greater good.


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Offlineblaze2
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Re: Nietzsche and the Neocons [Re: psilomonkey]
    #5554499 - 04/25/06 10:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

A christian is a free slave. this produces a different mentality from a slave in bondage. There are at least three different mentalities here.

Slave-someone who is not free and is under control by an outside force. examples: blacks before emancipation, Jews under Egypt, American people who fear the law fit in this group as well. THey make no decisions for themselves and simply "go with teh flow". Usually they are carefully trained to accept life as it is and not question.

Free slave-There is nothign to keep a free slave from becoming a power hungry Master, but at the same time someone who was a slave knows how much it sucks, and refuses to live the life of a master. Religions preach this idea. The golden rule fits here "do unto others". Would you want to be a slave?

Master-someone who uses others for his own gain, with no respect for others rights, or comfort. THere are so many examples of this sort of evil in teh world that I need not name any. Understand that a master knows what he is doing is wrong.

So to answer your question, no the neocons are not schizo, they are what Jesus would call a Hypocrit(sp?). I love how all the neocons believe that jesus' second coming is nigh, and are happy. If I was them I would be scared shitless. In fact ALL churches are foolish to be happily waiting for the rapture. The bible made clear that organized religion AND the christian faith is a huge no no. Sometimes I have to wonder if these sheep actually read their bibles.

"Worship in your closet"
"lift a stone and you will find me, turn a leaf and I am there."
and when Jesus is ressurected and visits the apostles they fall down to worship him, and you know what he says? "Nay, rise and worship God even as I do."

People are stupid. THey say they believe something then they refuse to listen to the few parts in the book it is actually clear about. I just dont get it. Peace

blaze2


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"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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