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InvisibleveggieM

Registered: 07/25/04
Posts: 17,504
Men hallucinate after eating fish
    #5535361 - 04/19/06 08:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Men hallucinate after eating fish
April 19, 2006 - practicalfishkeeping.co.uk


Rabbit fish are one of several species of fish known to cause
hallucinatory fish poisoning, but the problem is very rare outside
the Indo Pacific.


Two men have suffered terrifying visual and auditory hallucinations after eating poisonous fish in Mediterranean restaurants.

According to a clinical study on the patients, which is due to be published in the journal Clinical Toxicology, the men started seeing and hearing terrifying things after contracting a rare form of hallucinogenic poisoning from the fish they were dining on.

Ichthyoallyeinotoxism, or hallucinogenic fish poisoning, is caused by eating the heads or body parts of certain species of reef fish and has previously only been recorded from the Indo Pacific.

The effects of eating ichthyoallyeinotoxic fishes, such as certain mullet, goatfish, tangs, damsels and rabbitfish, are believed to be similar to LSD, and may include vivid and terrifying auditory and visual hallucinations. This has given rise to the collective common name for ichthyoallyeinotoxic fishes of "dream fish".

Pommier and de Haro of the Toxicovigilance Centre Antipoison at Marseille's Hospital Salvator, who undertook the study, said that the men had both eaten a fish called Sarpa salpa, and subsequently suffered from CNS disturbances including terrifying hallucinations and nightmares.

One of the men, a 40-year old, was admitted to hospital suffering from a digestive problem and terrifying visual and auditory hallucinations, which took 36 hours to disappear. The second man, a 90-year old, suffered from auditory hallucinations a couple of hours after eating the same species of fish, followed by a series of nightmares over the next two nights.

The poisoning can start to cause vivid hallucinations within minutes of eating a poisonous fish and may last for days, often with no other effects. There is no antidote.

Ichthyoallyeinotoxism
Indoles, with similar chemical effects to LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) are believed to be responsible and may be consumed when the fish eat algae or phytoplankton containing the chemicals.

Others have claimed that different species of ichthyoallyeinotoxic fishes, such as Kyphosus fuseus, contain much more potent hallucinogens, such as dimethyltryptamine or DMT, which is considered to be one of the world's most mind-bending hallucinogenic chemicals.

Sarpa salpa
The hallucinogenic fish consumed by the men was a member of the Sparidae family and is commonly known as the Salema porgy.

The fish reaches a size of around 50cm/20" and occurs through much of the eastern Atlantic and Mediterranean.

For more details on the hallucinatory fish poisonings see the paper: de Haro L, Pommier P (2006) - Hallucinatory fish poisoning (ichthyoallyeinotoxism): two case reports from the Western Mediterranean and literature review. Clin Toxicol (Phila). 2006;44(2):185-8.


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OfflineMoxemerald
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5535379 - 04/19/06 08:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Wow Excellent. Now to figure out the dosage...


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Moxemerald]
    #5535436 - 04/19/06 08:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Man I just read saw the article on ebaums, this is fucking crazy.

The nightmares can't always be terrifying, I bet they ate way too much you know, thinking that its NOT going to fuck you up lol just dinner

I'm getting on google to order some right now.


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InvisibleAtheist
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Atheist]
    #5535441 - 04/19/06 08:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

cool looking fish too


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OfflineWysefool
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5535753 - 04/19/06 10:05 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Cool! I remember hearing about this fish but not about anybody taking it. Maybe more will try now!


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InvisibleHeavyToilet
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Wysefool]
    #5535993 - 04/19/06 11:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Just wait till they make the fish illegal. :lol:


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InvisibleJim
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5536068 - 04/19/06 11:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

hrm... doesn't seem like it is quite time to get the fishing pole out yet


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InvisibleHamstercut
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Jim]
    #5536553 - 04/20/06 05:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

this just in: the DEA has killed every single rabbit fish, and have stated that owning or selling these hallucinogenic fish carry a mms of 5 years the dea said. "these are a schedule one drugs OK? if we find any fun loving hippies that have these type of fish in their aquariums, we will prosecute. its as simple as that" said John Holmes of the DEA. He also went on to state that they are in the process of training German Shepard's to sniff out these "schedule one fish". budsky. shroooomery neeews.


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Offlineblackout
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Hamstercut]
    #5536647 - 04/20/06 06:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Budsky said:
this just in: the DEA has killed every single rabbit fish, and have stated that owning or selling these hallucinogenic fish carry a mms of 5 years the dea said. "these are a schedule one drugs OK? if we find any fun loving hippies that have these type of fish in their aquariums, we will prosecute. its as simple as that" said John Holmes of the DEA. He also went on to state that they are in the process of training German Shepard's to sniff out these "schedule one fish". budsky. shroooomery neeews.




LOL! it could happen too.


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InvisibleBanez
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: blackout]
    #5536865 - 04/20/06 09:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

wouldnt at all suprise me. they made a naturally growing mushroom/ plant illegal to have and consume... why not an animal>?.. im going to try and get some of these fish as well.. they just look cool.. salt water thou and i bet their expensive


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Banez]
    #5537972 - 04/20/06 02:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I wish Pot came from animals, then we could train them to run if there's a bust going down!!


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OfflineRemainRandom50
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5541281 - 04/21/06 02:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

fucking awesome.
i wonder if i could get a fish like this for a pet.


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At times I get consumed by my everyday life and will leave the Shroomery. Yet, every time drugs come falling into my life for fun.....I always think about the Shroomery and then I'm back!


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5541909 - 04/21/06 06:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

lolzz

I think the demand for Rabbit fish just increased 30 fold!~

:smirk:


tc


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Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Roadkill]
    #5542222 - 04/21/06 08:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

But are they really good? The government don't know their asshole from a hole in the ground. Just because they say it make you hallucinate don't mean it's a good trip. Strychnine makes you hallucinate too.


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OfflineRemainRandom50
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5543284 - 04/22/06 07:53 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

^^ good point./


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At times I get consumed by my everyday life and will leave the Shroomery. Yet, every time drugs come falling into my life for fun.....I always think about the Shroomery and then I'm back!


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InvisibleHamstercut
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: RemainRandom50]
    #5543313 - 04/22/06 08:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

im buying some rabbit fish this weekend, im going to eat thier heads...ill let you know how it goes.


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Offlinetime2
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Hamstercut]
    #5543380 - 04/22/06 08:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

it probably won't f*** u up didn't you read that it is RARE? It be cool if all of them did that though. I'd have a 1000 gallon fishtank with them and I'd eat 3 a day lol.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: time2]
    #5543423 - 04/22/06 09:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

the poisoning is rare maybe because most people don't eat the heads? or maybe because most people cook the fish?


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5543440 - 04/22/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I hope everyone realizes that it would be bad karma to murder these fish to het high...

:lol:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5544015 - 04/22/06 12:36 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

but its not bad karma to murder a mushroom to get high? or a cannabis plant? I don't get your reasoning.


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OfflinegeokillsA
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5544045 - 04/22/06 12:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

One might argue that a plant is a relatively benign life source, whereas a calculating animal is a conscious life source (more) capable of feeling.  Then again, if you're eating the fish first and foremost for nutrition (with a slight hope that you might get something extra), then there should be no problem :grin: .. unless you're a herbivore by choice of course.


Here fishy fishy..


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: geokills]
    #5544067 - 04/22/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

plants have consciousness too. We are simply not accustomed to understanding it. You can't say that plants don't feel if you have never spoke with one.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5544725 - 04/22/06 05:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Those fish are alive, they have eyes and brains similar to yours. Psilocybe mushrooms are a fungus and in nature they develop after the spores of the species are ingested by a cow.

So they exist because of being eaten, whereas those innocent little fishies do not also depend on being eaten to survive... :evil:

DROP THE NET AND STEP AWAY FROM THE AQUARIUM YOU PSYCHEDELIC JUNKIES!!


:crazy2:


Edited by Microcosmatrix (04/22/06 05:48 PM)


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5544762 - 04/22/06 05:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Hmmmm BTW...


Quote:

The effects




Quote:

similar to LSD




Quote:

terrifying hallucinations




Since when?  :zoom:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5544826 - 04/22/06 06:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Those fish are alive, they have eyes and brains similar to yours. Psilocybe mushrooms are a fungus and in nature they develop after the spores of the species are ingested by a cow.

So they exist because of being eaten, whereas those innocent little fishies do not also depend on being eaten to survive... :evil:

DROP THE NET AND STEP AWAY FROM THE AQUARIUM YOU PSYCHEDELIC JUNKIES!!


:crazy2:




Hearsay. Do the mushrooms exist because of being eaten or is psilocybin designed as a deterrent to keep them from being eaten? What about cannabis? You MURDER the plant to get high! Just because something is similar to you does not make it better then something dissimilar. Or is there something I'm missing?


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5544882 - 04/22/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You could clip a harvest of bud off a plant, regenerate it, and then go plant it in nature, thereby "freeing" it, if you'd like...


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5544918 - 04/22/06 06:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

you could also cut a little piece of the fish brain and then leave it alone and let it heal...


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5544988 - 04/22/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Na, you might make him swim funny, or not be able to make adorable little fish noises to other fish. :nonono:

Invasive organ theft is not the answer. Why not just synthesize the active chemical involved? Much, much more humane to the fish..  :thumbup:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5544999 - 04/22/06 07:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

you don't even care about the plant your talking about mutilating. Trying to be all self-righteous regarding the fish LOL.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5545095 - 04/22/06 07:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

And you seek to justify the senseless mutilation and organ looting of a magestic aquatic species of fish just so you can try to see colors and spill beer on all your friends. :nonono:


Stick with LSD :lol:


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:orly:



Edited by Microcosmatrix (04/22/06 08:20 PM)


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5546129 - 04/23/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LOL you couldn't even comprehend my argument?

I thought, with that line in your signature about 'making them think your stupid,' I wouldn't have to spell everything out to you....  :ooo:


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5546999 - 04/23/06 10:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I understand it. So you're saying that plants are concious and aware and so each have their own ego?

What evidence do you have supporting this?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5547140 - 04/23/06 11:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm saying that life is life. Saying that eating a plant is better karma then eating an animal in an unjustified claim. We have no point of reference to plant life so we shouldn't go around saying that plants don't feel or think just because we cant understand them.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5550159 - 04/24/06 03:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well then I guess we can't go around thinking that the rocks don't have feelings either then can we? They're part of big mamma Earf.


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:orly:



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InvisibleveggieM

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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5550206 - 04/24/06 04:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I think I will stick to my various homegrown psychoactives for now, but if you are so inclined...

The site saltwaterfish.com is advertising this foxface rabbitfish (Lo vulpinus) for just $29.99 (including shipping) with a 15 day survival guarantee. I just love the disclaimer...

"By purchasing this item you are aware that it is poisonous and deadly and you agree that by purchasing this item Saltwaterfish.com is not responsible for any injury or death that may occur"


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5550325 - 04/24/06 07:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

we were talking about life.  :frown:


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InvisibleHamstercut
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5550663 - 04/24/06 10:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
Those fish are alive, they have eyes and brains similar to yours. Psilocybe mushrooms are a fungus and in nature they develop after the spores of the species are ingested by a cow.

So they exist because of being eaten, whereas those innocent little fishies do not also depend on being eaten to survive... :evil:

DROP THE NET AND STEP AWAY FROM THE AQUARIUM YOU PSYCHEDELIC JUNKIES!!


:crazy2:


humans are just advanced forms of bacteria.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5551032 - 04/24/06 12:53 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
we were talking about life.  :frown:




How do you know rocks aren't alive?


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Invisiblegiz
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5551080 - 04/24/06 01:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

were talking about fish , sure a fish has a life but its still a fish., i eat fish 2 days a week at least. I love to go fishing. i dont see any more moral conflict in breeding fish for psycadelics than breeding fish for omega-3. Also scorpions are used as a drug in certain parts of the world, ie afghanistan. And you have toads with tryptamines and whatnot, I had a list somewhere over psycadelic fishes, I belive there was around 10 species (that is known, the ocean is probably full of goodies we havent encountered yet) maybe it was more, i doubt it was less.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5551097 - 04/24/06 01:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You couldn't hang with the logic so you had to change the argument. I get it.  :undecided:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5551112 - 04/24/06 01:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Life feeds on life. That is the nature of it. Saying "killing an animal to eat is bad karma" is bullshit. How do you know? How do you know that killing a plant to eat is not JUST AS BAD? Life feeds on life - this is necessary. The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.


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Invisiblegiz
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5551702 - 04/24/06 04:56 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

except you kill the berries who contains many tiny berrie-babies :grin:


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InvisibleRoadkillM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5553580 - 04/25/06 12:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

veggie said:

The site saltwaterfish.com is advertising this foxface rabbitfish (Lo vulpinus) for just $29.99 (including shipping) with a 15 day survival guarantee. 




They sold out!~

That was a given!~

:smirk:

~


--------------------
Laterz, Road

Who the hell you callin crazy?
You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch!


Brainiac said:
PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.



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OfflineFeveredEgo
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Roadkill]
    #5555336 - 04/25/06 03:43 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.




Nope, I'm prolife, and I say that a seed is a living plant immediately after conception.

Seriously, if you knew how retarded you sound quoting awful Tool songs and using terrible logic you'd shut up immediately. He couldn't "hang with the logic" because you have the shittiest sense of logic ever. You say that a plant might be alive because you can't ask it if it's alive, but then you say nuts and berries aren't alive because, for some reason, the same rule doesn't apply.

And the only reason one cannot present proof as to why a blade of grass doesn't feel itself being stepped on is because the notion is too fucking stupid. Present to me proof that rocks don't feel.

I actually thought you were saying something interesting (even if I disagreed) until you turned out to be a dumb and pompous asshole.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: FeveredEgo]
    #5556067 - 04/25/06 07:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FeveredEgo said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.




Nope, I'm prolife, and I say that a seed is a living plant immediately after conception.

Seriously, if you knew how retarded you sound quoting awful Tool songs and using terrible logic you'd shut up immediately. He couldn't "hang with the logic" because you have the shittiest sense of logic ever. You say that a plant might be alive because you can't ask it if it's alive, but then you say nuts and berries aren't alive because, for some reason, the same rule doesn't apply.

And the only reason one cannot present proof as to why a blade of grass doesn't feel itself being stepped on is because the notion is too fucking stupid. Present to me proof that rocks don't feel.

I actually thought you were saying something interesting (even if I disagreed) until you turned out to be a dumb and pompous asshole.




LMAO you actually believe what you are saying???? "A PLANT MIGHT BE ALIVE" ?!?!? LOL I assumed everybody already agreed that plants are obviously alive. WOW... and you sit there and call me stupid... plants and animals are things that most people on earth agree do indeed live and die. You can witness the life of a plant with your eyes (really I promise you can  :shocked:) The notion that plants can indeed feel is "too fucking stupid" only because of your perspective. But fortunately, we are not here to talk about your perspective, we are here to talk about Gods perspective.

Most people, when they talk about karma, are really saying, "God likes that" or "God doesn't like that" ..... Hold on, hold on.... before you bash me on that... keep in mind that when I use the word God here, I am referring to something higher then the Ego. It could be the superego, some unseen force of life or spirit, or God in the traditional sense.

When someone says "its bad karma to kill an animal" but eat plants with no remorse, that person is not looking at it from the perspective of "God." I hope that we can all agree that life IS energy. When you in the womb you are feeding off your mothers energy when you are born you still feed off your mothers energy for a little while, then later you start getting energy for yourself, be it through the life and death of plants and/or animals.

When a plant is born into this world, it gets energy from its mother as well. The mother has stored energy into the seed that the plant can live off for a given period of time before it is required to gather its own energy. After that, the plant will gather its energy from the soil which itself is a palette of many forms of energy created out of the death of both animals and other plants.

See, plants and animals are just different forms of energy, who are we to say that God thinks one is better or worse then another?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: FeveredEgo]
    #5556417 - 04/25/06 08:59 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FeveredEgo said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.




I'm prolife, and I say that a seed is a living plant immediately after conception.




Wouldnt that belief more apropriatly be called Pro-death? Because if you dont eat anything your not going to live very long...


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Invisibleknowhereman
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: veggie]
    #5559743 - 04/26/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I hope im interrupting..

anyway,

Quote:

giz said:
Also scorpions are used as a drug in certain parts of the world, ie afghanistan. And you have toads with tryptamines and whatnot, I had a list somewhere over psycadelic fishes, I belive there was around 10 species (that is known, the ocean is probably full of goodies we havent encountered yet) maybe it was more, i doubt it was less.




What kind of scorpions are you talking about?

And to get back to the real topic, didn't the article say that the fish get the hallucinogens from the algae they eat and phytoplankton?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: knowhereman]
    #5560100 - 04/26/06 08:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

knowhereman said:
I hope im interrupting..

anyway,

Quote:

giz said:
Also scorpions are used as a drug in certain parts of the world, ie afghanistan. And you have toads with tryptamines and whatnot, I had a list somewhere over psycadelic fishes, I belive there was around 10 species (that is known, the ocean is probably full of goodies we havent encountered yet) maybe it was more, i doubt it was less.




What kind of scorpions are you talking about?

And to get back to the real topic, didn't the article say that the fish get the hallucinogens from the algae they eat and phytoplankton?




"Indoles, with similar chemical effects to LSD (lysergic acid diethylamide) are believed to be responsible and may be consumed when the fish eat algae or phytoplankton containing the chemicals."

Actually, yeah! damn I must have not processed that ever important bit of information.... If thats correct, might as well throw that whole argument out the window... damn.

Good job pointing that out.


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OfflineFeveredEgo
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Registered: 07/13/04
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5560465 - 04/26/06 09:22 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
Quote:

FeveredEgo said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.




Nope, I'm prolife, and I say that a seed is a living plant immediately after conception.

Seriously, if you knew how retarded you sound quoting awful Tool songs and using terrible logic you'd shut up immediately. He couldn't "hang with the logic" because you have the shittiest sense of logic ever. You say that a plant might be alive because you can't ask it if it's alive, but then you say nuts and berries aren't alive because, for some reason, the same rule doesn't apply.

And the only reason one cannot present proof as to why a blade of grass doesn't feel itself being stepped on is because the notion is too fucking stupid. Present to me proof that rocks don't feel.

I actually thought you were saying something interesting (even if I disagreed) until you turned out to be a dumb and pompous asshole.




LMAO you actually believe what you are saying???? "A PLANT MIGHT BE ALIVE" ?!?!? LOL I assumed everybody already agreed that plants are obviously alive. WOW... and you sit there and call me stupid... plants and animals are things that most people on earth agree do indeed live and die. You can witness the life of a plant with your eyes (really I promise you can  :shocked:) The notion that plants can indeed feel is "too fucking stupid" only because of your perspective. But fortunately, we are not here to talk about your perspective, we are here to talk about Gods perspective.

Most people, when they talk about karma, are really saying, "God likes that" or "God doesn't like that" ..... Hold on, hold on.... before you bash me on that... keep in mind that when I use the word God here, I am referring to something higher then the Ego. It could be the superego, some unseen force of life or spirit, or God in the traditional sense.

When someone says "its bad karma to kill an animal" but eat plants with no remorse, that person is not looking at it from the perspective of "God." I hope that we can all agree that life IS energy. When you in the womb you are feeding off your mothers energy when you are born you still feed off your mothers energy for a little while, then later you start getting energy for yourself, be it through the life and death of plants and/or animals.

When a plant is born into this world, it gets energy from its mother as well. The mother has stored energy into the seed that the plant can live off for a given period of time before it is required to gather its own energy. After that, the plant will gather its energy from the soil which itself is a palette of many forms of energy created out of the death of both animals and other plants.

See, plants and animals are just different forms of energy, who are we to say that God thinks one is better or worse then another?




I never once said a plant is not alive, and you totally didn't catch what I was saying. Notice the words "you said" ... I was mocking your logic. My point was that you are declaring a plant's consciousness using the same logic that would declare a berry's consciousness, but you claim that a berry is not so.

Anyway, I don't think one is better or worse than the other, but I certainly think that one is conscious of itself and the other is not.

And I thought you would at least have gotten the humor in my prolife statement -- It was a goddamn blatant joke, man.

I wasn't even trying to disprove that a plant is conscious, because I really don't give a shit one way or the other. I was just irritated because I think your logic is faulty, and that would not have bothered me at all if you hadn't been so pompous about it. Regardless, I have to admit I was being a dick too. No hard feelings, +5 shrooms.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5560474 - 04/26/06 09:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

O.K. now you should be able to work on harvesting the algae instead of senselessly slaughtering an entire species of fish. Awesome! Great job guys!

Hope the algae feels no pain!


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
Posts: 2,323
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: FeveredEgo]
    #5561069 - 04/26/06 11:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

FeveredEgo said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
Quote:

FeveredEgo said:
Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
The only way to avoid it is to eat nuts and berries - things that you don't have to kill to eat.




Nope, I'm prolife, and I say that a seed is a living plant immediately after conception.

Seriously, if you knew how retarded you sound quoting awful Tool songs and using terrible logic you'd shut up immediately. He couldn't "hang with the logic" because you have the shittiest sense of logic ever. You say that a plant might be alive because you can't ask it if it's alive, but then you say nuts and berries aren't alive because, for some reason, the same rule doesn't apply.

And the only reason one cannot present proof as to why a blade of grass doesn't feel itself being stepped on is because the notion is too fucking stupid. Present to me proof that rocks don't feel.

I actually thought you were saying something interesting (even if I disagreed) until you turned out to be a dumb and pompous asshole.




LMAO you actually believe what you are saying???? "A PLANT MIGHT BE ALIVE" ?!?!? LOL I assumed everybody already agreed that plants are obviously alive. WOW... and you sit there and call me stupid... plants and animals are things that most people on earth agree do indeed live and die. You can witness the life of a plant with your eyes (really I promise you can  :shocked:) The notion that plants can indeed feel is "too fucking stupid" only because of your perspective. But fortunately, we are not here to talk about your perspective, we are here to talk about Gods perspective.

Most people, when they talk about karma, are really saying, "God likes that" or "God doesn't like that" ..... Hold on, hold on.... before you bash me on that... keep in mind that when I use the word God here, I am referring to something higher then the Ego. It could be the superego, some unseen force of life or spirit, or God in the traditional sense.

When someone says "its bad karma to kill an animal" but eat plants with no remorse, that person is not looking at it from the perspective of "God." I hope that we can all agree that life IS energy. When you in the womb you are feeding off your mothers energy when you are born you still feed off your mothers energy for a little while, then later you start getting energy for yourself, be it through the life and death of plants and/or animals.

When a plant is born into this world, it gets energy from its mother as well. The mother has stored energy into the seed that the plant can live off for a given period of time before it is required to gather its own energy. After that, the plant will gather its energy from the soil which itself is a palette of many forms of energy created out of the death of both animals and other plants.

See, plants and animals are just different forms of energy, who are we to say that God thinks one is better or worse then another?




I never once said a plant is not alive, and you totally didn't catch what I was saying. Notice the words "you said" ... I was mocking your logic. My point was that you are declaring a plant's consciousness using the same logic that would declare a berry's consciousness, but you claim that a berry is not so.

Anyway, I don't think one is better or worse than the other, but I certainly think that one is conscious of itself and the other is not.

And I thought you would at least have gotten the humor in my prolife statement -- It was a goddamn blatant joke, man.

I wasn't even trying to disprove that a plant is conscious, because I really don't give a shit one way or the other. I was just irritated because I think your logic is faulty, and that would not have bothered me at all if you hadn't been so pompous about it. Regardless, I have to admit I was being a dick too. No hard feelings, +5 shrooms.




I do get what you were saying, but the berry/rock argument is another argument entirely, due to the fact to we cant all agree that berries are a form of life. By the way, I didn't come up with this logic myself, people actually live by this.... so it might not be as far off as some of you seem to think. A form of monks, believe that their purpose is to not build any karma in their life. They don't kill anything to live, plants or animals. They survive by eating that which they do not have to kill (fruits/nuts/berries). I was not being pompous, I was being straight forward.... I hate it when people hide from the truth and occasionally will call them out on it.




How is my logic faulty?

.....................................

Animals are alive.

Plants are also alive.

If killing animals is bad,

Then killing plants must also be bad.

.......................................

Find fault in that?


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5561078 - 04/26/06 11:29 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
O.K. now you should be able to work on harvesting the algae instead of senselessly slaughtering an entire species of fish. Awesome! Great job guys!

Hope the algae feels no pain!




It pains me to have attempted to debate you and running into the metaphorical brick wall surrounding your spirit.  :frown:


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Invisiblegiz
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Male

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 651
Loc: EU
Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: knowhereman]
    #5561566 - 04/27/06 02:39 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

knowhereman said:
I hope im interrupting..

anyway,

Quote:

giz said:
Also scorpions are used as a drug in certain parts of the world, ie afghanistan. And you have toads with tryptamines and whatnot, I had a list somewhere over psycadelic fishes, I belive there was around 10 species (that is known, the ocean is probably full of goodies we havent encountered yet) maybe it was more, i doubt it was less.




What kind of scorpions are you talking about?

And to get back to the real topic, didn't the article say that the fish get the hallucinogens from the algae they eat and phytoplankton?




read these two
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1124019/posts#comment
http://www.pcpafg.org/Organizations/undcp/communitydrug.htm


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Registered: 10/20/05
Posts: 11,293
Loc: Ythan's house
Last seen: 17 years, 1 month
Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5562246 - 04/27/06 10:05 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

EquilibriuM said:
Quote:

Microcosmatrix said:
O.K. now you should be able to work on harvesting the algae instead of senselessly slaughtering an entire species of fish. Awesome! Great job guys!

Hope the algae feels no pain!




It pains me to have attempted to debate you and running into the metaphorical brick wall surrounding your spirit.  :frown:




But my wall is made of laughter, in fact I'm laughing quite hard at this thread right now,  LOL


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Registered: 07/17/05
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5562321 - 04/27/06 10:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

You can make it out of whatever you want... its still a wall that protects you from the thoughts of others.


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5562328 - 04/27/06 10:31 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Let's get a motel by the beach, lots of fish there and we can get drunk and smoke fat blunts then go lookin' for sluts!  :hatsoff:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5562365 - 04/27/06 10:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I love the ocean. :rastamon:


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5562654 - 04/27/06 12:23 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Me too. Too bad right now I'm a mile above it.


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5562781 - 04/27/06 01:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yeah, I'm a couple hundred miles from it myself...  :undecided:


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OfflineMicrocosmatrix
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: EquilibriuM]
    #5562792 - 04/27/06 01:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'm gonna try and get a travelin' van by this summer and if I do I'm gonna hit cali. :thumbup:


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OfflineEquilibriuM
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Re: Men hallucinate after eating fish [Re: Microcosmatrix]
    #5562809 - 04/27/06 01:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

sounds like a plan  :jamming: :toast: :sailboat: :rastana:


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