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OfflineOmEgAx1
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5541271 - 04/21/06 04:43 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

because how can you sum up god to be within yourself when the entire human race is a mere fraction of the existance that god has created, everything is a part of god but everything is NOT a part of us, we are nothing more than tools of god.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: OmEgAx1]
    #5541279 - 04/21/06 04:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I repeat that size is relative and circular. We are the eyes (I) of the world, but do not exist as individuals. There is no-one home.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Hmm... [Re: OmEgAx1]
    #5541280 - 04/21/06 04:46 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Tools?


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: OmEgAx1]
    #5541312 - 04/21/06 04:54 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I have to add that I do not claim to know this, only speculating.

But you seem to identify with your ego as yourself. I think what you started a thread on recently, about watching things unfold before they take place while on high doses, could be explained by this. You are watching a show through many lenses. The experience of OmEgAx only one perspective, but not really who you are. You are the watcher behind the curtain. You are god. And everything is in everything. Everything is everything. Remember your projection of energy thread a long time back? It is in the nature of holograms that every fraction includes the Whole. We are Holy. :smile: We are God.


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OfflineOmEgAx1
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5541364 - 04/21/06 05:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

That is a good way to believe it, that projection of energy thread was one of my simpler ideas that I had in my quest to make sence of reality, there is truth to it but I find theres alot more questions it ends up asking as with any answere.

I believe people to be simple tools that can be influenced to do anything, and the experiences laid out infront of us dictate nearly everything we do, luckily theres a very very slight randomness factor to our physical reality that we dont yet understand (look up quantum physics), so it brings the question of how much free will do we really have? There has to be atleast a small degree due to the nature of reality, but a majority of the factors of most individuals thoughts can be manipulated in such a way that they are easily tooled without them realizing it...

I only feel a true power within very select individuals, but I dont feel that same power with other individuals unless they are grouped together, and even then, I sometimes feel more power in an animal than some people. With that in mind, if we are god, all living things must be god, which would imply that all matter has the greatness of god, and then even beyond that, god is simply too magnificent, I find it much more likely for there to be a distant species that has a true connection with god, which would make us tools.


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: OmEgAx1]
    #5541596 - 04/21/06 06:41 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I think true power comes from true acceptance. Free will is an oxymoron. Get rid of your will by acceptance, then you'll be free. Immersed in the flow of tao without preferences. Your illusion of free will is what separates you from God. That is to die to ones self, to let go of everything.

Not saying I'm there of course, still just speculating.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5541838 - 04/21/06 08:03 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

dr, yes, but letting go free will, joining acceptance, only really works in the real tao, that is the balanced nature. In modern western 'artificial' society, we need our free will to find that balance again. If we would let go here, we would been catched and manipulated very fast, like omegax1 assumes, so we would loose our natural balance, the tao. I think, that naturally happens to animals too, if you bring them out of their natural context. They have no free will and if humans with no tao treat them, they will loose their tao too, get sick and die.
So, in essence, here in the land of crazy humans, we need our (free) will to get kind of rid of it again to enter the awareness of  tao :wink:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5542446 - 04/21/06 11:58 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Tao is eternally perfect. There is as much Tao in modern western 'artificial' society as in anywhere and anything else. It's just up to you to recognize it as so and to embrace it.

One can't lose or gain Tao. One can embrace it or one can be ignorant of it.

As to free will, here's an analogy. Imagine a stream. Upon close examination, it appears that there are two straws drifting down the stream. One of the straws is pointed down the stream, in the direction of the flow. Nothing gets in its way because wherever the stream goes, the straw goes. The other straw is fighting the current. It's trying to turn horizontal, perpendicular to the stream.

Our free will consists of our ability to either accept the direction the stream is going in, like the first straw, or to fight it with all sorts of desires, attachments, and aversions, causing suffering.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineOmEgAx1
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5542918 - 04/22/06 02:47 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Yea well unfortunately for me due to natural selection I happen to have a brain "miswiring" that supposedly occurs in 1/25 people, and if it really does occur at that rate, those of you lucky enough not to have the trait need to be much more careful than you think. The more I think about it and the more I research it the more I am worried for the survival of the human race as it is. I think you all mis-interpret the extent Im saying free will has in our lives.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5543092 - 04/22/06 04:35 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Ok, there is tao everywhere, but isn't tao the balance of ying and yang ?
I saw a dokumentation about Tai Chi. They keep saying, things are born our of the ying, grow in the yang and then exist in the balance of ying and yang, the tao.
That is, what I meant as balance and that is, why we have to search it. I think, western societies have left the balanced state and it is harder to find balanced tao there, than in plain nature.
I can not follow the human stream into its own destruction, if I recognize my free will and the balanced tao :wink:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5543179 - 04/22/06 07:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
Immersed in the flow of tao without preferences.




You mean to say, immersed in the flow with preferences, but without addictions. :grin:

Our minds are able to direct that which flows through us. That ability, is, of course, simply a manifestation of that which is flowing through us. The ability to choose can be employed without becoming attached to the outcome of the choice, or the fact that one is making the choice. Its the flow choosing how to flow, in a manner that does not impede its state of flowing. :wink:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5545002 - 04/22/06 09:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

No, I did mean to say no preferences. I remember dosing up on microdots in my apartment some years back, with pen and paper. When I woke up the day after all my trip log said was no preferences

I have preferences, but the final aim would be the elimination of even those. Preferences indicates a worldview of subject-object. In Union (Yoga) the subject vanishes, and that is the total immersion in the flow of Tao. That is true acceptance. The self must die.

Allow me to quote Ken Keyes Jr from Handbook to Higher Consciousness where he writes about the seventh center and final stage of the trip:

"Because one has transcended all personal boundaries, and experiences no separation from anyone or anything in the world, serving "others" is the only thing to do in life. For there are no "others". Everything is experienced from an "us" space. [...] Achieving it usually requires a detached life style and a long period of intense consciousness growth practice. Even preferences must be eliminated to reach this Center."

:wink:


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: OmEgAx1]
    #5545052 - 04/22/06 09:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OmEgAx1 said:
The more I think about it and the more I research it the more I am worried for the survival of the human race as it is. I think you all mis-interpret the extent Im saying free will has in our lives.




Accept it. Why should it really matter whether humanity survives or not?


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Invisibledorkus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5545078 - 04/22/06 09:37 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

but letting go free will, joining acceptance, only really works in the real tao, that is the balanced nature. In modern western 'artificial' society, we need our free will to find that balance again.

There is nothing artificial about it. We are the Tao. It is just how it is.

They keep saying, things are born our of the ying, grow in the yang and then exist in the balance of ying and yang, the tao.

The womb of nothingness is yin as infinite potential. The yang is the result, or the shadow of the womb. Playing out infinite potential as the backside of yin. This is how I interpret that.

Everything is Tao. In a state of true acceptance there will be no mental movement, no striving towards anything. No achievement left. It is the burning of the self, giving up everything. Laying ones life in the hands of "faith". It is the Buddha under the tree offering his life in exchange for truth.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5545163 - 04/22/06 10:02 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
No, I did mean to say no preferences. I remember dosing up on microdots in my apartment some years back, with pen and paper. When I woke up the day after all my trip log said was no preferences

I have preferences, but the final aim would be the elimination of even those. Preferences indicates a worldview of subject-object. In Union (Yoga) the subject vanishes, and that is the total immersion in the flow of Tao. That is true acceptance. The self must die.

Allow me to quote Ken Keyes Jr from Handbook to Higher Consciousness where he writes about the seventh center and final stage of the trip:

"Because one has transcended all personal boundaries, and experiences no separation from anyone or anything in the world, serving "others" is the only thing to do in life. For there are no "others". Everything is experienced from an "us" space. [...] Achieving it usually requires a detached life style and a long period of intense consciousness growth practice. Even preferences must be eliminated to reach this Center."

:wink:




Excellent post!


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dorkus]
    #5545353 - 04/22/06 10:50 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dr_mandelbrot said:
[...]
Everything is Tao. In a state of true acceptance there will be no mental movement, no striving towards anything. No achievement left. It is the burning of the self, giving up everything. Laying ones life in the hands of "faith". It is the Buddha under the tree offering his life in exchange for truth.



Yes, thank you for explaining. I understand what you say and what you mean.
But it is hard to find a tree to give up everything, in Babylon, you know ? :wink:
Human vultures here will only spare other vultures ... one soon would be dead, I think.
I am quite convinced to need to be an active part in modeling/finding my surroundings away from an obviously unbalanced environment, to be able to live/feel/find balanced Tao.

Hmmm...but I reread your post and I see the similarities with 'accepting' bad things happen to oneself, like offering one others cheek. I am nor sure if I can accept obvious harmful things. I don't think so. And I don't see this as balanced Tao :wink:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Edited by BlueCoyote (04/22/06 10:58 PM)


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5545607 - 04/22/06 11:48 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I am quite convinced to need to be an active part in modeling/finding my surroundings away from an obviously unbalanced environment, to be able to live/feel/find balanced Tao.

To shun one aspect of the Tao in favor of another according to your own preferences and desires is not in accord with the Way. The Tao does not favor one area over another. The Tao does not prefer the sun to the moon. Why should you?

Ram Dass puts it well on p. 33 of Be Here Now. He says: "You can't get away for the day because: it's in your head! That you're trying to get away from...and the only way to get away is to change your head! Simple as that! You want to change your environment? Change your head!! It's all the ecstatic moment! If you know how to dig it...if not...it's a travesty."


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5545650 - 04/23/06 12:02 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

That is exactly what I mean. I will put it to an extreme now. What if some guys want to explode the moon ?
What if some guys extinguish all further possibilities of life on our planet ?
If some humans want to shun one aspect of Tao in preference with their (unbalanced) existence ?

Is that the balanced Tao ? No. That is what I said, it should be action taken for to achieve (at least for one self, if one wants to experience balanced Tao).


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledblaney
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Quietism [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #5545677 - 04/23/06 12:15 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Aha! Okay, now I think I have a better understanding where you're coming from. You're saying that this sort of life view tends to lean towards quietism and acceptance of whatever happens, no matter how awful or devastating it is.

I would respond that it's a valid criticism for some schools of thought. However, most of the ones I take guidance from do not advocate standing idly by while the world is destroyed. Here's that quote from Kesey again:

Quote:

Because one has transcended all personal boundaries, and experiences no separation from anyone or anything in the world, serving "others" is the only thing to do in life. For there are no "others". Everything is experienced from an "us" space. [...] Achieving it usually requires a detached life style and a long period of intense consciousness growth practice. Even preferences must be eliminated to reach this Center.




However, so long as you view the issues as involving a right side and a wrong side, an 'us' and a 'them', you're viewing it through the lens of the ego, and that is a very biased and inaccurate filter.

Jesus also says it very succinctly:

Jesus said: You see the splinter in your brother's eye, but you do not see the log that is in your own eye. Remove the log from your own eye, and then you can clearly see to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.

I suppose I should heed his words as well, so I qualify this post by saying: I have not removed the log from my own eye yet, but I hope that you understand the message I'm trying to send, and that you accept it or reject it based on its own merit.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Quietism [Re: dblaney]
    #5545750 - 04/23/06 12:39 AM (15 years, 7 months ago)

But even if I removed the log from my eyes, there will remain those who will shun parts of the Tao...and as we need it to survive spiritual healthily, I can not stay actionless :wink:
:heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


Extras: Filter Print Post Remind Me! Notify Moderator Top
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