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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleBuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!

Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 1,733
Hmm...
    #5533183 - 04/19/06 01:00 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

If the Christian god is Omnipotent. That means he knows the past, present, and future. That means he knows what you are going to do with you life when you are born. Therefor he already knows when he creates you if your going to heaven or hell. Why would he create someone if he knew they where going to be damned in hell for all eternity if he is a loving god ?


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OfflineZenith
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5533246 - 04/19/06 01:17 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quite interesting argument, but when you say that to Christian fellow she/he might reply something like "god works in mysterious ways".

I have heard something like that many times when I talk about religion.


--------------------
I?m not very sure where does the rug start and I end.


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OfflineGomp
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5533327 - 04/19/06 01:36 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

BuddahKillah said:
If the Christian god is Omnipotent. That means he knows the past, present, and future. That means he knows what you are going to do with you life when you are born. Therefor he already knows when he creates you if your going to heaven or hell. Why would he create someone if he knew they where going to be damned in hell for all eternity if he is a loving god ?




I could ramble on and on, ?but...

I think this might provide an answer!?

'Therefor he already knows when he creates you if your going to heaven or hell.'

..heaven AND hell!

"only your focus, can narrow 'it' down.. "
-Unknown :P


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InvisibleMellowMood
Dreamin Man
Registered: 04/24/04
Posts: 185
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Re: Hmm... [Re: Gomp]
    #5533482 - 04/19/06 02:26 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Well im Agnostic...but if i were christian id probably say something like "To give them a chance." but since im agnostic ill say it like this "To give them a chance?"  :bigblunt:


--------------------
"Im a dreamin man
yes thats my problem
I cant tell when im
not being real"


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5533597 - 04/19/06 03:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

That is a very literal interpretation.

The existence of Hell is not literal. It began with the author Matthew and became streamlined into Christian orthodoxy decades after the life of Jesus. The idea of physical suffering in the afterlife was then borrowed by Prophet Muhammad, and now it is a dominating theme in both fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. Before that, symbols of Hell were not literal and sadistic, rather they were states of mind, states of consciousness, states of existence on earth itself, or states of spiritual awareness.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleBuddahKillah
U WANTFITE!?!?!?!?!?!

Registered: 10/15/04
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Re: Hmm... [Re: Basilides]
    #5533793 - 04/19/06 04:24 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
That is a very literal interpretation.

The existence of Hell is not literal. It began with the author Matthew and became streamlined into Christian orthodoxy decades after the life of Jesus. The idea of physical suffering in the afterlife was then borrowed by Prophet Muhammad, and now it is a dominating theme in both fundamentalist Christianity and Islam. Before that, symbols of Hell were not literal and sadistic, rather they were states of mind, states of consciousness, states of existence on earth itself, or states of spiritual awareness.




That is true although, I have never met a single Christian who would admit it.


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5533902 - 04/19/06 04:58 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

He's a jokester alright! :wink:


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineOctavius
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5533944 - 04/19/06 05:10 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

To me it would seem to be that heaven and hell are descriptions of what will happen durning our life. Hell would be not having a job, not having a car and not having a life.

In heaven you will have many friends, you will find a good job and be happy and wealthy for the rest of your lives.

Octavius


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Hmm... [Re: Octavius]
    #5534021 - 04/19/06 05:34 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

In other words, heaven = the fulfillment of various desires and hell = the failure to fulfull various desires?

This is indeed a view many, many have. However, if you are able to stop caring in the least about these desires, and take the power back from them, then you will be much closer to yoga.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5534099 - 04/19/06 05:57 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Why would he create someone if he knew they where going to be damned in hell for all eternity if he is a loving god ?

It's simple, really. God is an sadistic Calvinist who created the vast majority of life for the unmatchable entertainment of being able to observe it's suffering.  :heart:


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OfflineTheGus
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Re: Hmm... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5534232 - 04/19/06 06:37 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

hell is simply another place on the astral realm, just as heaven is... its not a bad place where bad people go to be tortured, it is simply another plane of existence where about demons and the like intermingle and create their own reality in which to exist

actually i was just corrected, there is a place for people to be tortured labeled appropriately 'the pit' which is a hole basically you fall for an eternity... and into your own personal hell you go, few to ever escape


--------------------
"It is easier to teach a computer to play chess than to build a mudpie."Sherry Turkle Life on the Screen: Identity in the Age of the Internet
"Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts"-Einstein
:mrt: I pity the fool who break traffic laws with $870,000 of drugs in the car.      -mo0nlite_sonata
Psythos


Edited by TheGus (04/19/06 06:40 PM)


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InvisibleDisco Cat
iS A PoiNdexteR

Registered: 09/16/00
Posts: 2,601
Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5534291 - 04/19/06 06:51 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Like it was already said, there is no eternal hell taught in the bible that people are going to after this life.

In addition, if the future has not yet existed but is being woven as we go then there is nothing to be known of the future, except what someone plans to make of it, right? An omnipotent god could make anything of it they wish, so they could technically know the future, but that doesn't mean by means of looking into it, rather instead by declaring what they are going to make of it.

I don't believe time exists in a line of past present and future. I think all existence is one endless moment. If all the energy in the universe never diminishes then nothing ever really "ages," that energy just takes different forms.

Therefore I don't believe that time travel is possible because I believe we are already in the only moment that exists, and will ever exist.


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Offlinefivepointer
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Re: Hmm... [Re: BuddahKillah]
    #5534394 - 04/19/06 07:19 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

If the Christian god is Omnipotent. That means he knows the past, present, and future. That means he knows what you are going to do with you life when you are born. Therefor he already knows when he creates you if your going to heaven or hell. Why would he create someone if he knew they where going to be damned in hell for all eternity if he is a loving god ?

The future itself is actively ordered by Divine purpose and will. It is not a matter of seeing down the "tunnel of time", it is a matter of creating the tunnel itself and actively ordering all events, thus creating the tunnel. Of course the tunnel is known, because God Himself created it.

While God is love, God is also just. All things are for the praise of God's glorious attributes, both in damnation and in salvation.


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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Hmm... [Re: fivepointer]
    #5534428 - 04/19/06 07:28 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

All things are for the praise of God's glorious attributes

God sounds kinda full of Himself...

Or maybe you're suggesting that He's rather insecure and so needed to create others in order to make Himself feel better?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Hmm... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5534564 - 04/19/06 07:54 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Why would he create someone if he knew they where going to be damned in hell for all eternity if he is a loving god ?

It's simple, really. God is an sadistic Calvinist who created the vast majority of life for the unmatchable entertainment of being able to observe it's suffering.  :heart:




I like to think God created the majority of life so that it might know Him. Without manifestation, God is an unknown treasure in Her own solitude.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
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Re: Hmm... [Re: Basilides]
    #5534611 - 04/19/06 08:04 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I like to think God created the majority of life so that it might know Him.

I don't think it's possible to be the subject AND object of one's own knowledge.

Can fire burn itself?

Language is weird like that though. Perhaps unitive knowledge of Itself would be more appropriate diction?

Without manifestation, God is an unknown treasure in Her own solitude.

There can be none Other than the Infinite, therefore there can never be such thing as solitude from Its perspective.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5534637 - 04/19/06 08:11 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

dblaney said:
I like to think God created the majority of life so that it might know Him.

I don't think it's possible to be the subject AND object of one's own knowledge.

Can fire burn itself?




Can fire know itself? :grin:

More revealing question into the matter:

Can awareness be aware of awareness?

:mushroom2:

:headbang: :sun: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
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Re: Hmm... [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5534642 - 04/19/06 08:13 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

I've swallowed my own mouth before.


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Invisibledblaney
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Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Hmm... [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5534646 - 04/19/06 08:14 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

How did it taste?


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Hmm... [Re: dblaney]
    #5534650 - 04/19/06 08:15 PM (15 years, 7 months ago)

Like sweet & sour sauce.


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