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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

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Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View
#5532899 - 04/19/06 09:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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From Time magazine April 09, 2006
Two senior military officers are known to have challenged Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld on the planning of the Iraq war. Army General Eric Shinseki publicly dissented and found himself marginalized. Marine Lieut. General Greg Newbold, the Pentagon's top operations officer, voiced his objections internally and then retired, in part out of opposition to the war. Here, for the first time, Newbold goes public with a full-throated critique:
WHY IRAQ WAS A MISTAKE A military insider sounds off against the war and the "zealots" who pushed it By Lieut. General Greg Newbold (RET.)
In 1971, the rock group The Who released the antiwar anthem Won't Get Fooled Again. To most in my generation, the song conveyed a sense of betrayal by the nation's leaders, who had led our country into a costly and unnecessary war in Vietnam. To those of us who were truly counterculture--who became career members of the military during those rough times--the song conveyed a very different message. To us, its lyrics evoked a feeling that we must never again stand by quietly while those ignorant of and casual about war lead us into another one and then mismanage the conduct of it. Never again, we thought, would our military's senior leaders remain silent as American troops were marched off to an ill-considered engagement. It's 35 years later, and the judgment is in: the Who had it wrong. We have been fooled again.
From 2000 until October 2002, I was a Marine Corps lieutenant general and director of operations for the Joint Chiefs of Staff. After 9/11, I was a witness and therefore a party to the actions that led us to the invasion of Iraq--an unnecessary war. Inside the military family, I made no secret of my view that the zealots' rationale for war made no sense. And I think I was outspoken enough to make those senior to me uncomfortable. But I now regret that I did not more openly challenge those who were determined to invade a country whose actions were peripheral to the real threat--al-Qaeda. I retired from the military four months before the invasion, in part because of my opposition to those who had used 9/11's tragedy to hijack our security policy. Until now, I have resisted speaking out in public. I've been silent long enough.
I am driven to action now by the missteps and misjudgments of the White House and the Pentagon, and by my many painful visits to our military hospitals. In those places, I have been both inspired and shaken by the broken bodies but unbroken spirits of soldiers, Marines and corpsmen returning from this war. The cost of flawed leadership continues to be paid in blood. The willingness of our forces to shoulder such a load should make it a sacred obligation for civilian and military leaders to get our defense policy right. They must be absolutely sure that the commitment is for a cause as honorable as the sacrifice.
With the encouragement of some still in positions of military leadership, I offer a challenge to those still in uniform: a leader's responsibility is to give voice to those who can't--or don't have the opportunity to--speak. Enlisted members of the armed forces swear their oath to those appointed over them; an officer swears an oath not to a person but to the Constitution. The distinction is important.
Before the antiwar banners start to unfurl, however, let me make clear--I am not opposed to war. I would gladly have traded my general's stars for a captain's bars to lead our troops into Afghanistan to destroy the Taliban and al-Qaeda. And while I don't accept the stated rationale for invading Iraq, my view--at the moment--is that a precipitous withdrawal would be a mistake. It would send a signal, heard around the world, that would reinforce the jihadists' message that America can be defeated, and thus increase the chances of future conflicts. If, however, the Iraqis prove unable to govern, and there is open civil war, then I am prepared to change my position.
I will admit my own prejudice: my deep affection and respect are for those who volunteer to serve our nation and therefore shoulder, in those thin ranks, the nation's most sacred obligation of citizenship. To those of you who don't know, our country has never been served by a more competent and professional military. For that reason, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice's recent statement that "we" made the "right strategic decisions" but made thousands of "tactical errors" is an outrage. It reflects an effort to obscure gross errors in strategy by shifting the blame for failure to those who have been resolute in fighting. The truth is, our forces are successful in spite of the strategic guidance they receive, not because of it.
What we are living with now is the consequences of successive policy failures. Some of the missteps include: the distortion of intelligence in the buildup to the war, McNamara-like micromanagement that kept our forces from having enough resources to do the job, the failure to retain and reconstitute the Iraqi military in time to help quell civil disorder, the initial denial that an insurgency was the heart of the opposition to occupation, alienation of allies who could have helped in a more robust way to rebuild Iraq, and the continuing failure of the other agencies of our government to commit assets to the same degree as the Defense Department. My sincere view is that the commitment of our forces to this fight was done with a casualness and swagger that are the special province of those who have never had to execute these missions--or bury the results.
Flaws in our civilians are one thing; the failure of the Pentagon's military leaders is quite another. Those are men who know the hard consequences of war but, with few exceptions, acted timidly when their voices urgently needed to be heard. When they knew the plan was flawed, saw intelligence distorted to justify a rationale for war, or witnessed arrogant micromanagement that at times crippled the military's effectiveness, many leaders who wore the uniform chose inaction. A few of the most senior officers actually supported the logic for war. Others were simply intimidated, while still others must have believed that the principle of obedience does not allow for respectful dissent. The consequence of the military's quiescence was that a fundamentally flawed plan was executed for an invented war, while pursuing the real enemy, al-Qaeda, became a secondary effort.
There have been exceptions, albeit uncommon, to the rule of silence among military leaders. Former Army Chief of Staff General Shinseki, when challenged to offer his professional opinion during prewar congressional testimony, suggested that more troops might be needed for the invasion's aftermath. The Secretary and Deputy Secretary of Defense castigated him in public and marginalized him in his remaining months in his post. Army General John Abizaid, head of Central Command, has been forceful in his views with appointed officials on strategy and micromanagement of the fight in Iraq--often with success. Marine Commandant General Mike Hagee steadfastly challenged plans to underfund, understaff and underequip his service as the Corps has struggled to sustain its fighting capability.
To be sure, the Bush Administration and senior military officials are not alone in their culpability. Members of Congress--from both parties--defaulted in fulfilling their constitutional responsibility for oversight. Many in the media saw the warning signs and heard cautionary tales before the invasion from wise observers like former Central Command chiefs Joe Hoar and Tony Zinni but gave insufficient weight to their views. These are the same news organizations that now downplay both the heroic and the constructive in Iraq.
So what is to be done? We need fresh ideas and fresh faces. That means, as a first step, replacing Rumsfeld and many others unwilling to fundamentally change their approach. The troops in the Middle East have performed their duty. Now we need people in Washington who can construct a unified strategy worthy of them. It is time to send a signal to our nation, our forces and the world that we are uncompromising on our security but are prepared to rethink how we achieve it. It is time for senior military leaders to discard caution in expressing their views and ensure that the President hears them clearly. And that we won't be fooled again.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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Rono
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Skeptikos]
#5533659 - 04/19/06 01:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"The consequence of the military's quiescence was that a fundamentally flawed plan was executed for an invented war, while pursuing the real enemy, al-Qaeda, became a secondary effort."
-------------------- "Life has never been weird enough for my liking"
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Luddite
I watch Fox News


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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Rono]
#5534032 - 04/19/06 03:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Why did so many other countries go along with it?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Luddite]
#5534036 - 04/19/06 03:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Rovian puppets
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barfightlard
tales of theinexpressible



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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Luddite]
#5534047 - 04/19/06 03:42 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Political pressure and belief of false evidence?
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"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks
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gregorio
Too Damn Old


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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Luddite]
#5534233 - 04/19/06 04:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luddite said: Why did so many other countries go along with it?
Outside of Great Britain there hasn't been a lot of support from other countries.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: gregorio]
#5534293 - 04/19/06 04:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"As of February 4, 2006, there were 23 countries with military forces stationed in Iraq. These were Albania, Armenia, Australia, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Czech Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Estonia, Georgia, Italy, Japan, Kazakhstan, South Korea, Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Mongolia, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, United Kingdom, and the United States. Fiji is also present but under the United Nations banner."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.-led_occupation_of_Iraq
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gregorio
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5534373 - 04/19/06 05:14 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thank God for Fiji; I shudder to think how bad it would be without their help.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Luddite]
#5534498 - 04/19/06 05:41 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The U.S. buys and bullies other countries to go along. It offers aide and threatens tariffs and import quotas.
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Skeptikos]
#5534547 - 04/19/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The US sends 2 Billion annually to Egypt. They're not on the list. A great many countries that aren't on the list receive aid from the US. If you please would you find one example of a country not on the list that received less aid because of its failure to send troops or support the mission. Or who were in any way punished. Thank you. I'm sure you'll be up all night.
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Skeptikos
GeneticallyEngineeredBonobo

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5534745 - 04/19/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Do you think the U.S. government would make such information public or confirm it, when the Bush administration propagandizes about the "coalition of the willing"?
Wikipedia gives a brief summary of some things contained in this report:
Quote:
The techniques used to pressure nations to support the United States included a variety of incentives including:
- Promises of aid and loan guarantees to nations who support the U.S. - Promises of military assistance to nations who support the U.S. - Threats to veto NATO membership applications for countries who don't do what the U.S. asks - Leveraging the size of the U.S. export market and the U.S. influence over financial institutions such as the World Bank and the International Monetary Fund. - Deciding which countries receive trade benefits under such laws as the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA) and the Free Trade Agreement (FTA), which, as one of its conditions for eligibility for such benefits, requires that a country does "not engage in activities that undermine United States national security interests". - Deciding what countries it should buy oil from in stocking its strategic reserves. The U.S. has exerted such pressure on several oil-exporting nations, such as Mexico.
Wikipedia goes on further to state that:
Quote:
In addition to the above tactics, the British newspaper The Observer published an investigative report revealing that the National Security Agency of the United States was conducting a secret surveillance operation directed at intercepting the telephone and email communications of several Security Council diplomats, both in their offices and in their homes. This campaign, the result of a directive by National Security Advisor Condoleezza Rice, was aimed primarily at the delegations from Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Mexico, Guinea and Pakistan. The investigative report cited an NSA memo which advised senior agency officials that it was "'mounting a surge' aimed at gleaning information not only on how delegations on the Security Council will vote on any second resolution on Iraq, but also 'policies', 'negotiating positions', 'alliances' and 'dependencies' - the 'whole gamut of information that could give US policymakers an edge in obtaining results favourable to US goals or to head off surprises'."
...Clare Short, a UK cabinet minister who resigned in May 2003 over the war, stated in media interviews that British intelligence regularly spied on UN officials. She stated that she had read transcripts of Kofi Annans conversations.
Now I realize that some of the more gullible members of this board may think that their respective governments are not wrong and deny any Machevallian machinations from those whom they support. However, those of us living in the real world acknowledge how things work even when we may support the goals of those engaged in such actions. Do you know the term, realpolitik?
-------------------- Sincerely, Skeptikos
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Skeptikos]
#5534851 - 04/19/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Gullible? One would be best served to check out the authors of the report you cite. http://www.ips-dc.org/overview.htm Left wing whackjobs. The Observer. More of the same. And the citation is off topic. Don't give me speculation, give me a fact. One example of a nation punished for non-support. Like I said Egypt still gets 2 billion annually.
I have no problem with the US using its weight to further its interests. I'd be pissed if we didn't. But there is no record of anybody being coerced or punished. Just speculation from anti-war, anti-Bush, anti-capitalist whiners.
I sure do know the term Raelpolitik. And I have no problem with it's exercise. I wish it was exercised a little more. Nonetheless, there is no evidence that we bribed anyone to go with us while there is ample evidence that France and Russia were bribed to go against us.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Skeptikos]
#5534884 - 04/19/06 07:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not entirely sure how I have benefited from the invasion of Iraq. In that regard, I would say it was a mistake.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Redstorm]
#5534915 - 04/19/06 07:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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The specifics of how you may have benefited from the Iraq War personally will always be a mystery. A similar mystery will always be how we were harmed personally by the disgrace that was the Yalta conference, which partitioned Europe. We were all affected. Just how is unclear even now.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5535050 - 04/19/06 07:37 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Until they show me how I was benefited, I must say I wasn't.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Redstorm]
#5535090 - 04/19/06 07:44 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I took one poli sci course and the prof was a fucking loon but he told me two things that were dead nuts on. Everything the government does is at the point of a gun. And two, and this is the best, only you can declare what is in your interest. Not some do gooder jackass who knows smoking may kill you or that McDonalds is made from cyanide or some religious nutcase screaming about the afterlife or some hooker who says she can suck your balls into her eye socket or whatever. Only you. I have determined that it was in my interest, for a great many reasons, to stop the assinine UN sanctions and get the asshole out. History will determine whether I was correct. Frankly, I think that history will determine that I was correct.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5535106 - 04/19/06 07:47 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I can't disagree with you on most of those points. The way I see it, I wasn't directly benefited, so they might as well have not done it.
Selfish, I know, but that's my politics.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Redstorm]
#5535138 - 04/19/06 07:54 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Only you can say what is in your interest.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs



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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5535194 - 04/19/06 08:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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vintage_gonzo
Stranger

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5535239 - 04/19/06 08:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I have determined that it was in my interest, for a great many reasons, to stop the assinine UN sanctions and get the asshole out. History will determine whether I was correct. Frankly, I think that history will determine that I was correct.
and get the asshole out? with this rationale i assume you mean kim jong il, so why are you bitching about saddam? what are your great many reason and how as of now can you say that history will determine that you are correct? iraq is such a fuckball mess that is draining us resources as we speak. how can you stick up for it? what good has come out of it? we cant take out Iran now because we are stuck in Iraq, there are more terrorists now than before. Iraq just might be the force that starts the fall of america.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole

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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5535310 - 04/19/06 08:27 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Blah, blah blah blah blah blah bla. Welcome newbie. This is not the Daily Kos or the DU. Redstorm is probably well aware of the thousands of posts here making a case for the war. He may not agree with them but they are nonetheless extant and strong. This is not a politicly homogenous community. And I have absolutely no interest in rehashing every argument I ever made for your benefit. Have a nice night.
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SirTripAlot
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: vintage_gonzo]
#5535491 - 04/19/06 09:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I believe it is WAY to early, for most civilians in America, to feel the effects of the Iraq war whether it be positive or negative. Has anyones day to day life really changed here?
The above instance is true, unless you are either a veteran or a family who has lost someone...........
-------------------- “I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”
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psilomonkey
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Luddite]
#5536165 - 04/20/06 12:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luddite said: Why did so many other countries go along with it?
The Polish Foreign Minisiter stated his reasons.. not sure he was being 'on message''' though.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3043330.stm
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Alex213
Stranger
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: psilomonkey]
#5536332 - 04/20/06 01:52 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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My favourite member of the laughable "coalition of the willing" was the federated islands of micronesia
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Alex213
Stranger
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: zappaisgod]
#5536335 - 04/20/06 01:55 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Blah, blah blah blah blah blah bla. Welcome newbie. This is not the Daily Kos or the DU. Redstorm is probably well aware of the thousands of posts here making a case for the war. He may not agree with them but they are nonetheless extant and strong. This is not a politicly homogenous community. And I have absolutely no interest in rehashing every argument I ever made for your benefit. Have a nice night.
My, that was pissy
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zappaisgod
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Re: Why Iraq Was a Mistake - A General's View [Re: Alex213]
#5538098 - 04/20/06 03:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Thank you
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