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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5534040 - 04/19/06 03:40 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

have to have belief in something

be?lief
n.
1. The mental act, condition, or habit of placing trust or confidence in another: My belief in you is as strong as ever.
2. Mental acceptance of and conviction in the truth, actuality, or validity of something: His explanation of what happened defies belief.
3. Something believed or accepted as true, especially a particular tenet or a body of tenets accepted by a group of persons.

Quote:

Belief in the traditional sense, or certitude, or dogma, amounts to the grandiose delusion, "My current model" -- or grid, or map, or reality-tunnel -- "contains the whole universe and will never need to be revised."




Abandon certainty and you abandon belief. I think it's possible to live life beyond skepticism, in total unbelief (uncertianty) of everything, not even accepting your own skeptic viewpoint as certian. Off the top of my head: Empiricism, the Scientific Method, and General Semantics all seem to be systems of thought which abolish 'belief' entirely.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5534385 - 04/19/06 05:17 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Paradigm said:
Yes, I'm aware that the Bible code shows some interesting prophecies. But how do you explain the rather blasphemous things I posted which are also found using the Bible code?




see thats the thing, there definatly is a code. but for it to say satan is god, god is dead, there is no god, there is no truth, there is no jehovah, jehovah is satan- thats the greatest blasphemy. what you need to ask yourself is, if there is a true code behind the bible, then why would it contradict itself like that? i think something smells fishy.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5534414 - 04/19/06 05:25 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KidgardFromSRQ said:
see thats the thing, there definatly is a code. but for it to say satan is god, god is dead, there is no god, there is no truth, there is no jehovah, jehovah is satan- thats the greatest blasphemy. what you need to ask yourself is, if there is a true code behind the bible, then why would it contradict itself like that? i think something smells fishy.



I think you're the one that needs to ask that question. Why would the same code claim that there is no god and that Satan is god, if there were anything to it?


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5534541 - 04/19/06 05:50 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The only proof of God can come from within, and thus it cannot be objectively verified.

That makes no sense and smacks of wishful thinking and accommodation.

Why in the world would God sorta-kinda expose himself to you in such a way as to absolutely guarantee doubt?

If he wants you to know him, he wouldn't use such a wishy-washy, non-committal form of exposure; and if he doesn't want you to know him, you wouldn't see so much as a hint.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 12 days
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534552 - 04/19/06 05:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

KidgardFromSRQ said:
well, finding out every known major event to come and or has happened in the bible by applying a mathematical pattern to a book we consider so holy that invokes wisdom and is said every word to be true




The Bible is just a book, man. :grin:

Quote:


, definatly does prove that someone/or something did encode it with knowledge beyond man. what prophecy is there in moby dick?




Assassinations Foretold In Moby Dick

"Trotsky, executed, ice hammer, the steel head of the lance" is a good one. :lol:

Quote:


you can find in a mathematical pattern in most anything.




Exactly.

Quote:


religion doesnt cause problem, people do. saying religion causes harm is like saying guns kill people. we all know people kill people.




Can a government cause problems? A religion is not an inanimate, physical object, my friend.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534607 - 04/19/06 06:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

When God reveals Himself to a spirit, it is inner knowing and private confirmation for that particular person to treasure. Gnosis is a gift, and it transforms faith into personal knowledge of Real mysteries. It may not even be "revealed" so much as someone might have simply tuned into it, which is likely the case.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5534622 - 04/19/06 06:07 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

That doesn't prove the Bible code is flawed, rather it supports the divine inspiration of Herman Melville! Mree mree mree mree :tongue:
Thus spaketh Bartleby thine scrivener: "I prefer not to. Amen."


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
Male

Registered: 03/12/02
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Basilides]
    #5534625 - 04/19/06 06:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Basilides said:
Gnosis is a gift, and it transforms faith into personal knowledge of Real mysteries. It may not even be "revealed" so much as someone might have simply tuned into it, which is likely the case.




:thumbup:

The term "God" doesn't even need to apply to it, either. :grin:

Personally, its all about awareness (or consciousness). Fitting terms that capture the essence of what is being explored/experienced/known without implying anything beyond that exploration/experience/state of knowing.  :wink:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534641 - 04/19/06 06:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
The only proof of God can come from within, and thus it cannot be objectively verified.

That makes no sense and smacks of wishful thinking and accommodation.



The fact that you cannot make sense of it does not mean it makes no sense.


--------------------


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5534730 - 04/19/06 06:31 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Apparently, believers can make no sense of it either as evidenced by the favorite phrase: "God works in mysterious ways".


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534743 - 04/19/06 06:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Not all believers have gnosis.


--------------------


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534752 - 04/19/06 06:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Who said that?

Simply because you're unable to experience something doesn't mean that others do not experience it.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Basilides]
    #5534842 - 04/19/06 06:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

well, this is obviously a very controversial debate. one thing the bible codes did predict is, atomic holocaust 2006. iran is definatly going to make nuclear bombs. and before this was discovered, none of this was known to be happening by the people who found the code. on top of that, the iranian prime minister said he is going to wipe israel off the face of the earth. america jumped in and said if they attack our ally, we'd jump in. and israel said if they fire one missile, there wont be enough bodies to pick up the dead. only time will tell if its true. if it does happen, and you dont find it compelling enough to believe, then what do you believe?


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineBasilides
Servent ofWisdom
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Registered: 02/10/06
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5534850 - 04/19/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'll believe it when I see it


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Basilides]
    #5534865 - 04/19/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Simply because you're unable to experience something doesn't mean that others do not experience it

I don't deny that people have experiences. I only question whether those experiences are imagined or real.

Since they always seem to occur during states of emotional arousal or while on mind-bending drugs but never while dead sober, in full possession of one's faculties, and in broad daylight, I find the experiences suspect.

Double that when you consider the fact that when trippers fully convinced they can fly jump off buildings, they always fall and die. Obviously, the belief that they could fly was in error. If instead of flying they arrive at some other arbitrary belief that can't so-easily be proved wrong as flying, they clutch it irrationally and usually never let go.

Also, that mystical experiences are usually closely aligned with the believer's cultural background should tell the critical thinker something.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineKidgardFromSRQ
Strange

Registered: 05/30/05
Posts: 1,501
Last seen: 9 years, 11 months
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Basilides]
    #5534867 - 04/19/06 07:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

you'll probably dead, if its a holocaust. the stage is being set.


--------------------
Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.


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OfflineDr_Gonzo_25
Psychonaut
Male

Registered: 04/09/06
Posts: 27
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534893 - 04/19/06 07:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

There is no evidence whatsoever that there is a god, the bible is no proof at all, it could just as easily be all false as it could be true. If a god and an afterlife could be proven without a doubt there would be no discussion about it.

I am an atheist is for a number of reasons, one I prefer logic over religion, science is real and explainable, religion not so much. I do not think religion would benefit me at all, if anything I think some people use it as a crutch. Some people think ignorance is bliss but I tend to disagree, there has been too much blood spilled over religious issues and I think we'd all be better off without it.


--------------------
All gods are homemade, and it is we who pull their strings, and so, give them the power to pull ours.

-Aldous Huxley


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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Silversoul]
    #5534903 - 04/19/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Depends on the kind of the atheism. Weak atheism is a lack of belief in God. Strong atheism is a belief in the non-existence of God.

i'd be a 'strong' athiest then. not only do i not believe in god, i believe that god does not exist.

by 'god' i mean a diety, mostly, a being as described in the abrahamic faiths.


--------------------



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Offlinewilshire
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: KidgardFromSRQ]
    #5534922 - 04/19/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Theres alot of supporting evidence that god or some higher being is real

there's not a shred, and there's the answer to your question.

and there is an afterlife

i don't know what happens after death.

But what evidence is there that he is not real and there is no afterlife? What logic is there behind athiesm?

you cannot prove a negative.


--------------------



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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Why are you an athiest? [Re: Diploid]
    #5534950 - 04/19/06 07:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

The thing about the "experience" is that it's Universal. It's expressed along the same lines in every mystical flavor of every spiritual tradition.

I don't know what to tell you. I suppose you can assume that these experiences are imagined or even delusional. Personally I'd be a little curious why everyone profoundly testifies to the same experience of becoming lost in the Divine Identity.

Is it at all far fetched that Spirit does in fact exist, and that a metaphysical eye of the soul so to speak stumbles upon its underlaying Reality? Moreover with Spirit as a reality, is it far fetched that altered states of consciousness might reveal metaphysical realities?

Gnosis isn't some kind of extra-ordinary vision of an Angel speaking to someone. It is to realize that who we ARE is consciousness/spirit, and that we are sourced from the Ground of Consciousness itself. It is to experience ourselves Pneumatically, as Spirit, as opposed to eye of the body-mind. The self is completely non-existent in gnosis. The gnostic completely disappears and has no sense of self during gnosis, as all that is present is Divine Oneness.


--------------------


"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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