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 degeneratemo
Stranger
Registered: 01/23/02
Posts: 19
Last seen: 22 years, 1 day
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 Trying to prove a friend wrong... 
#551540 - 02/14/02 04:16 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I can't seem to convince a single person that shrooms aren't physically harmful, they all seem to think it makes your brain bleed and stuff like that. So my question is, are there any studies or anything like that done by something like the AMA or any other legit respected organization that prove my friends wrong?
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moosehead
poop deck
Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 9,741
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#551688 - 02/14/02 06:29 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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ya, no shit. One of my friends said that shrooms makes your brain bleed. That just sounds fuckn' sick. On erowid I saw nothing on long term health effect, at least thats what i remember. So uhh, I am basicly asking the question above again.
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 trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: moosehead]
#551797 - 02/14/02 08:04 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's actually (in my experience) hard to find studies prooving that mushrooms (or LSD) don't cause physical damage. There don't seem to be a lot of studies done with the express purpose of prooving the safety of mushrooms/LSD. In the few studies I've seen, it looks like the intent was to proove that they do cause damage. And of course they just don't find any evidence of damage. Or they use insane concentrations and extreme circumstances to try and show the proposed damage (such as a certain LSD study involving chromosome breakage...).
You can always try what I do: tell your friends to prove it to you that mushrooms cause damage. Tell them to go find proof. Real proof. They'll give up when they don't find any.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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_JJ_
PsychedelicRevolutionary
Registered: 06/12/01
Posts: 369
Loc: NSW, Australia
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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 Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#552005 - 02/14/02 11:09 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here ya go.. I'm quoting the consent form for the MAPS psilocybin research.. Im guessinf they have to include every possible health risk applicable so as to protect themselves from potential legal complications - so this should be exactly what you want. If there was anything about brain bleeding it'd be in here  Obviously you can disregard the blood drawing part as it is only for their experimental data.
(http://www.maps.org/research/psilo/azconsent.html)
RISKS
The risks involved in this study include: 1) risks related to taking psilocybin and 2) blood drawing. 1) Psilocybin is a hallucinogenic/psychedelic drug. At the higher doses, psilocybin can cause severe distortion in all body sensations and thinking. This can include abnormal perception in all senses such as visual changes, visual hallucinations, hearing changes and auditory hallucinations, abnormal smells or bodily sensation, and an unusual mixing of sensations where for example sounds may be perceived as pictures or images or colors could be perceived as tastes. These experiences are usually accompanied by intense changes in mood states. This can include elation or euphoria, anxiety and panic feelings, or depressive feelings. Emotions can change quickly from one to another. While these experiences are described by most people as pleasant or profound, to some it may be frightening and include symptoms of panic, depression, and confusion. The symptoms listed above usually begin within the first hour after taking the psilocybin and can last for up to 12 hours, although most people find that these symptoms are gone by 6 hours after ingestion.
Psilocybin can also cause dizziness, nausea, vomiting, headaches, increased pulse and blood pressure, dilated pupils, slightly elevated temperature, raising of skin-hair, and increased reflexes. These symptoms usually can begin 20 to 30 minutes after taking the drug and can last up to 6 hours.
At times psychedelic sensations or memories of these sensations may be re-experienced in the future and this has been called "flashbacks". It is not known how often this really occurs. Some studies have reported that it does not really happen and other studies suggest that some people do have these experiences. Other complications such as prolonged psychosis, suicide, or homicide have been attributed to use of hallucinogenic drugs. It is unclear to what extent these effects can be caused by hallucinogenic drugs. There are no large, well-controlled studies of psilocybin.
If I have any adverse reactions that lead the doctors involved with this study to be concerned about my safety, they may have to detain me in the hospital until they feel I am safe to go home. If I have a reaction such that I become very upset, it is possible that the study doctors may have to give me medication to help me calm down.
2) The risk of blood drawing is minimal when done by a professional. I might develop a bruise at the site of blood drawing but this will go away in two to three days.
Edited by _JJ_ (02/14/02 11:11 PM)
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CuckoosNest
addict
Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 666 
Loc: Northwest (shaped like a ...
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
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 Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: trendal]
#552199 - 02/15/02 03:59 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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tendral, they are just going to come back with printed documentation of proof that they are bad. Councelling centers, PO offiers, and drug councellers even believe in a lot of the drug myths out there, and they actually give you printed documents conferming thei lies. I know and you know that the shit written on those pamplets given out is, well "shit". So your friend like mine are do thick headed to listen to the voice of reason and intellegence. Just give up and let them believe their lies. They are all branded in his brain already.
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"...Three geese in a flock. One flew east, And one flew west, And one flew over the cuckoo's nest."
Ken Kesey
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero
Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 2 months, 6 days
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#552431 - 02/15/02 10:56 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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It would be an error to claim that shrooms aren't physically harmful. There have been documented cases of small children eating a fatal dose of wild mushrooms (yes, the same kind we love to grow and eat here). There are also documented cases where people have died from allergic reactions to mushrooms.
To be fair, even water can be physically harmful if you drink too much of it. People have also died from allergic reactions to peanuts.
I have found it to be much easier to convince people of the relative danger of a substance by showing how much more dangerous things they consume every day are.
For example, there have been at least three documented cases of people taking multiple-gram doses of LSD-25. The active dose is only around 80-120 ug. This means they took around 10,000 times the normal dose. They did end up in the hospital for a few days, but no apprent long term effects. They all lived.
If you take 10,000 times the normal dose of asprin, you will die.
If you take 10,000 times the normal dose of alcohol, you will die.
If you take 10,000 times the normal dose of nicotine, you will die.
For some relative data on LD-50, (ld=leathal dose, 50=when 50% of the test subjects died) check out the following data at: http://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/health/psychoactives_ld50s.shtml
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Just another spore in the wind.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: CuckoosNest]
#552469 - 02/15/02 11:27 AM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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What I meant by "go find proof" was actual scientific literature. A medical journal or something of the sort. Most of my friends are fairly intelligent, even if they are naive about some things, and will generally always accept a good peice of scientific evidence as truth.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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CuckoosNest
addict
Registered: 01/31/02
Posts: 666
Loc: Northwest (shaped like a ...
Last seen: 21 years, 11 months
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: trendal]
#552589 - 02/15/02 01:03 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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nice that you have relatively intellegent friends who respect scientific evidence. Some of us are not so lucky.
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"...Three geese in a flock. One flew east, And one flew west, And one flew over the cuckoo's nest."
Ken Kesey
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Kid
Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 07/21/00
Posts: 2,365
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#552606 - 02/15/02 01:15 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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You should ask your friend if they've ever read any scientific studies with evidence that shrooms do make your brain bleed.
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Lizard King
King Lizard
Registered: 10/03/99
Posts: 1,998
Loc: GA
Last seen: 17 years, 7 months
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: CuckoosNest]
#552808 - 02/15/02 04:33 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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NO ONE HAS EVER DIED FROM PSILOCYBIN MUSHROOMS THAT WE CURRENTLY KNOW OF.(PERIOD)
The case your referring is about one little girl, not more than one as you imply. It is also known that the litttle girl ingested other poisonous mushrooms along with the psilocybin mushrooms. There was also some guy who was binge drinking, taking pills and using other drugs along with psilocybin mushrooms, and he died, but again it wasn';t due to psilocybin.
This isn't to say that psilocybin mushrooms have no health risk, just very, very, very minimal and not permanent. An allergic reaction to mushrooms may cause death, but it has nothing to do with psilocybin. I suspect it would be easier to die from drinking to much water than from eating too many shrooms
LK,
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moosehead
poop deck
Registered: 02/04/02
Posts: 9,741
Loc: pnw
Last seen: 3 days, 6 hours
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 Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#552820 - 02/15/02 04:52 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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now that i think about it i did read some where about a year ago tnat to OD on shrooms you would have to eat 20 pounds worth and that the human stomach cant handle that kind of intake. could be a bunch of BS, just what i read some where.
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trendal
J♠
Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: moosehead]
#552885 - 02/15/02 05:46 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think it says something to that effect on erowid.
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Hermes_br
~~~
Registered: 04/24/01
Posts: 546
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: Lizard King]
#552892 - 02/15/02 05:58 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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needless to say but in IMO , it's better to have a good protein fasting before( atleast) 24 hours pryor dreaming !!
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Zahid
Stranger
Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 4,779
Last seen: 19 years, 6 months
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Re: Trying to prove a friend wrong... [Re: degeneratemo]
#552960 - 02/15/02 07:05 PM (22 years, 2 months ago) |
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In reply to:
I can't seem to convince a single person that shrooms aren't physically harmful, they all seem to think it makes your brain bleed and stuff like that. So my question is, are there any studies or anything like that done by something like the AMA or any other legit respected organization that prove my friends wrong?
I have the exact same problem in my town. I've given up though, they're too stupid to listen.
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