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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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stalled growth
#5524253 - 04/17/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i have a huge 1 1/2 PF style jar. germination, and initial colonization was excellent but i has stalled for two weeks now. after the first few days i wast sure if i was just impatient or not considering the size of the jar, so i decided to outline the myc with a sharpie pen. sure enough the myc is still within the boarders. i gave it a whole week to see if it grow outside the boarders. ive shaken, turned upside down, and left on different sides, and nothing im guessing that the substrate is dried out but it looks moist. maybe a jar that big needs air exchange, i dunno. ive never used large jars before only 1/2 pint and i always seal those so that they are air tight until colonization is complete. also there is no contam in jar only the myc. any suggestions? im dyin here!
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524323 - 04/17/06 11:07 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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probably lack of gas exchange.
do you have anything covering the inoculation holes in the lid?
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: Roadkill]
#5524336 - 04/17/06 11:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah, they are taped, and cover with tin foil. i always use this method on 1/2 pints
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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futurewolf42o
Le Jooses!


Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 470
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524373 - 04/17/06 11:15 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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dont cover the holes. FAE = myc <3
-------------------- cheese-it!
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redshadow
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Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
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uhh what's "FAE = myc < 3" ?
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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futurewolf42o
Le Jooses!


Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 470
Last seen: 15 years, 9 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524400 - 04/17/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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sorry. myc loves fresh air. if your going to cover the holes you should breathable tape. youll notice your jars colonize alot faster. i use nothing to cover my holes and my jars colonize in ~15 days
Edited by futurewolf42o (04/17/06 11:21 AM)
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Dr_Mcgillicuddy
Stranger

Registered: 07/22/05
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524401 - 04/17/06 11:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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A complex equation stating that the Mycelium likes Fresh air exchange so you should un cover the holes
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hyphae
born to grow


Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 6,228
Loc: the rain forests
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524404 - 04/17/06 11:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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You actually don't want FAE at this point but myc does need gas exchange.
Gas exchange: The ability to release builtup gases resulting from the myc's metabolic activity (consuming substrate). A result of this inability to release these gas creates EXCESS myc piss which BTW is a normal process (myc piss) but an excess is not, it can easily stall a cake. (do not lick your cakes or leave your holes taped) Simply put it's an exchange in values.
FAE (fresh air exchange) is the lowering of the co2 concentration through the introduction of fresh air plain and simple. A good fresh air exchange includes the stagnated moisture pockets of the casing surface (microclimate).
-------------------- Getting the most out of your casings!, A pinning strategy. Oyster Shell "Flour" $2 for 1lb. a hell of a deal Not what is overlay but rather what overlay is Gas Exchange vs. FAE "We all have priorities. I used a closet once setup a nice little lab trouble was all the shit that was in there ended up in the bedroom that pissed off the GF then I ended up dumping her as she was getting in the way of my sterile culture technique! Ya I got priorities too!!!"
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futurewolf42o
Le Jooses!


Registered: 03/30/06
Posts: 470
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Re: stalled growth [Re: hyphae]
#5524408 - 04/17/06 11:23 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
hyphae said: You actually don't want FAE at this point but myc does need gas exchange.
Gas exchange: The ability to release builtup gases resulting from the myc's metabolic activity (consuming substrate). A result of this inability to release these gas creates EXCESS myc piss which BTW is a normal process (myc piss) but an excess is not, it can easily stall a cake. (do not lick your cakes or leave your holes taped) Simply put it's an exchange in values.
FAE (fresh air exchange) is the lowering of the co2 concentration through the introduction of fresh air plain and simple. A good fresh air exchange includes the stagnated moisture pockets of the casing surface (microclimate).
hey cool ;D i didnt really know there was a difference. i feel smarter! woo!
-------------------- cheese-it!
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524440 - 04/17/06 11:28 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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listen to hyphae!~
he said it well!~

You really need to un-cover those holes.
If you don't have a dry verm barrier...cover the holes with some microspore tape.
Sometimes when you are using larger size containers with the pf recipy... it will stall...and you will end up getting a bacterial contamination.
good luck!~
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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SDP
ChronicAficionado



Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 1,297
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524444 - 04/17/06 11:29 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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With any PF style jars, i found it best to use 4 holes like they say (i tried 1-5 holes... the pentagram one worked bad-ass actually, but more exposure to contams in the long-run, so i go with 4) then screw the lid on tight, take the tape off (keep it off), inoculate, then put a coffee filter or 2 with a rubber-band over the top and throw into your recently sterilized (Lysol + rinse) Tub in Tub incubation chamber... however... the tub thats in the tub (the one your jars are in), drill 1/3 inch holes along the top under-rim, about 1 ever 3-4 inches (like in Alien's Incubator). I found this provides my incubator with more air exchange...
My BRF PF Style 1/2 pints take about 2-2.5 weeks...
-SDP
-------------------- Teonanacatl, open up my eyes This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand Give me strength to find the path Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do Amen
Edited by SDP (04/17/06 11:35 AM)
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: Roadkill]
#5524468 - 04/17/06 11:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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well i guess ill take off the tape, it is masking take but ill try microspore tape. were can i find that stuff? is it the same as the tape that comes in first aid kits?
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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SDP
ChronicAficionado



Registered: 01/21/05
Posts: 1,297
Last seen: 6 months, 15 days
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524523 - 04/17/06 11:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Use medical grade masking tape or outdoor painters tape (i got the green kind)... make sure you take them off after you inoculate though... then just use coffee filters...
-SDP 
BTW: Grain is my new baby... been working great overall. Waaay faster colonization (due to shaking), better + more shrooms... You will also see the proper use of Tyvek, a good material that allows airflow but protects from contams. Good tek:
From syringe to print using rye http://www.shroomery.org/index.php/par/26177
-------------------- Teonanacatl, open up my eyes This sacrament, this prayer, beyond the world of lies Guide me clearly through that which I dont understand Give me strength to find the path Help me fight any demons as you flow through me wholely This is my prayer, that you protect me from evil, and bring me closer to peace And open up my eyes, so i can see things as you do Amen
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: SDP]
#5524632 - 04/17/06 12:09 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i hope it not to late to save the cake. its been a good two weeks with no growth meaning its short of somthing, in this case gas exchange. ive had cakes ferment on me before! how can you tell if bacteria has infested the cake?
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524640 - 04/17/06 12:11 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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you can find microspore tape in the bandaid area of most stores.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: Roadkill]
#5524692 - 04/17/06 12:24 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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yeah i wish i was close to my house i would go home and do it on my lunch break. ahh dontcha just love shroomery, wasting time at work and im gettin paid! ive got to say thats interesting though, every time ive used 1/2 pints ive never taken off the tape, wonder why it worked....
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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Roadkill
Retired Shroomery Mod


Registered: 12/11/01
Posts: 22,674
Loc: Montana
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5524806 - 04/17/06 12:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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sometimes it will work with the tape on...and you will get lucky and it won't stall.
you will get faster colonization times...if you pull the tape(masking tape or whatever type) off after the mycelium has grown to the size of a quarter.
with microspore tape you just leave it on.
I can colonize pf style jars in 7 to 10 days... others struggle with longer colonization times.
tc
-------------------- Laterz, Road Who the hell you callin crazy? You wouldn't know what crazy was if Charles Manson was eating froot loops on your front porch! Brainiac said: PM the names with on there names, that means they have mushrooms for sale.
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: Roadkill]
#5525178 - 04/17/06 02:04 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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were can i get microspore tape? or is that just medical grade tape.
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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redshadow
Yaddia Holla?


Registered: 09/28/04
Posts: 282
Loc: Zeta Reticuli
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
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Re: stalled growth [Re: redshadow]
#5525195 - 04/17/06 02:08 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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oops, diddnt see the post before the last one, nevermind!
-------------------- =<{: Its only when you've lost everything that your free to do anything....... :}>=
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