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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinemr_kite
The Watcher
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Registered: 09/16/02
Posts: 2,577
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5526197 - 04/17/06 06:20 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

its a bit pointless to reduce the argument to something that asurd. id just like to say, you have to give people who have faith the respect they're due. even though they have no proof, their faith in it means something. obviously not faith that their dog is a sun deity, but for example faith in the resurrection. its both insulting and mistaken to say that their belief is meaninless; the mere fact that they have faith makes it incredibly meaninful to them. Not to you maybe, you have no such faith in anything, but that doesnt mean you can say their belief is meaningless.their faith makes their life meaninful and i guess thats great for them.

anyways my girlfriends here so im gonna have to pay her some attention.


--------------------
let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love


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Offlinefireworks_godS
Sexy.Butt.McDanger
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Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: mr_kite]
    #5526233 - 04/17/06 06:30 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

mr_kite said:
id just like to say, you have to give people who have faith the respect they're due. even though they have no proof, their faith in it means something.




It means that, for whatever reason, they have been brought to adopt a delusion and to fervently hold onto it. The simple fact that they hold faith in such a belief does not mean that the belief is justified, or that having faith in such a belief is to be accepted.

Quote:


obviously not faith that their dog is a sun deity, but for example faith in the resurrection.




What is the difference? Both have the same amount of evidence to support the belief, and the only possible difference is the meaning that the one who holds the belief grants it, right?

Quote:


its both insulting and mistaken to say that their belief is meaninless; the mere fact that they have faith makes it incredibly meaninful to them.




Yes, it is true that existance is empty of inherent meaning, and that it is us who create meaning for ourselves. The fact that someone blindly holds faith in something might make it meaningful to them, but it does not mean that the belief is of any relevance to reality or their experience. It is, in effect, delusion.

Delusion is never beneficial, in any way, shape, or form.

Quote:


their faith makes their life meaninful and i guess thats great for them.




I don't think it is great for them that they have to derive meaning through meaningless bullshit when the simple fact that they are a living, human being who is having an experience is enough. Any kind of belief that seperates oneself from the fact that we need not rely on any bullshit to have meaning is harmful to oneself and one's wellbeing.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
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Registered: 08/05/02
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Last seen: 14 years, 7 months
Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5526298 - 04/17/06 06:49 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Opinion ceases to be opinion when a person gives reasoning to back it up. It becomes an argument at that point. "I like blue" is an opinion, "I like blue, because..." is an argument (albeit a poor one), and if someone takes up a contradictory position, then one of you are wrong, or both of you are.

Just thought that should be stated in this already interesting thread.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: David_Scape]
    #5526329 - 04/17/06 06:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

good point. You get a gold star.



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OfflineSneezingPenis
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5526334 - 04/17/06 06:58 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

from the city of sausalito.....


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Offlineblaze2
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Registered: 12/20/02
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Loc: San Antonio, TX
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5526403 - 04/17/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

"Yes, it is true that existance is empty of inherent meaning, and that it is us who create meaning for ourselves. The fact that someone blindly holds faith in something might make it meaningful to them, but it does not mean that the belief is of any relevance to reality or their experience. It is, in effect, delusion.

Delusion is never beneficial, in any way, shape, or form. "

And what in your opinion is of any relevance to reality?

as far as their experiance id say it can be very relevent to many many people, otherwise we wouldnt even be talking about it at all right now. The fact that we are is proof of is relevence. Peace

blaze2


--------------------
"Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is lame." Albert Einstein

"peace is not maintained through force it is acheived through intelligence." Albert Einstein

"Those who desire to give up Freedom in order to gain Security, will not have, nor do they deserve, either one."
Thomas Jefferson

"To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." --Thomas Jefferson


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OfflineSneezingPenis
ACHOOOOOOOOO!!!!!111!
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: blaze2]
    #5526425 - 04/17/06 07:19 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Descartes would disagree.

If by the same logic that we are is proof enough to validate our experiences then it would validate pure existentialism, which therefor invalidates personal experience.


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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: David_Scape]
    #5527041 - 04/17/06 09:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

David_Scape said:
Opinion ceases to be opinion when a person gives reasoning to back it up. It becomes an argument at that point. "I like blue" is an opinion, "I like blue, because..." is an argument (albeit a poor one), and if someone takes up a contradictory position, then one of you are wrong, or both of you are.




How is stating a personal preference and the reasons for it, considered an argument....?  :confused:

If I say "I like blue because blah blah blah", and you say "you like green because blah blah blah", nobody is wrong, and it is what **I** would consider a discussion....   
---Or a simple sharing of personal preferences....  :shrug:


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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OfflineDavid_Scape
Anti Genius
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #5527269 - 04/17/06 10:10 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

It was a horrible example of an argument. Anybody trying to take up a contradictory position on another's personal preferences is a prick, and would annoy me. It's definately not a mature discussion as far as I'm concerned, either. But, technically, as long as you've stated your position beyond an emotional reaction, you've stated an argument. That's all I was trying to say.


--------------------
focusing
Flow
The Enneagram


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InvisibleCHyRO
Stranger

Registered: 03/01/06
Posts: 12
Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: David_Scape]
    #5528704 - 04/18/06 09:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Well it's about how really open minded you really are and weather there is a true distinction between absurdity and seriousness. If both parties to a discussion intuitively agree that the object of discussion is a serious point then all well and good after a period of consolidation of individual POV, some degree of "widening of scope" might very well ensue. However to an outside observer each POV may hold no weight what so ever as any degree of seriousness at all and in fact the very discussion it's self may seem absurd from that outside observer. How would you judge the consensus of weather the discussion is serious or absurd, possibly by taking a vote in which case it might be two to one in favor of seriousness, but by that point the minority group member may then be able to swing the vote by further discussion in pointing out the fact that the discussion has now indeed entered the realms of absurdity by the very fact that a vote was taken. An so the debate could continue and at length with the group widening it's scope and increasing it's number, until such point that elections would need to be held for serious vs non serious parliamentary candidates.

At this point in the discourse I urge you to click on the following link for some light relief before returning to the analysis of the debate at hand.

http://www.yeeguy.com/freefall/georgerag.swf


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: SneezingPenis]
    #5529942 - 04/18/06 03:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

yo. first of all. you need to open your mind to see that you are under the control of Satan. Then, you need to accept Jesus Christ into your heart, so that the sacred heart of Jesus will open your heart.


--------------------
Namaste


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InvisibleCHyRO
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Posts: 12
Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5536486 - 04/20/06 03:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

LMAO Like the avitar


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OfflineEttin
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Registered: 03/28/06
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5538201 - 04/20/06 03:52 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

Quote:

RedNucleus said:
yo. first of all. you need to open your mind to see that you are under the control of Satan. Then, you need to accept Jesus Christ into your heart, so that the sacred heart of Jesus will open your heart.




lol, thats the funniest thing ive heard in quite a while.


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OfflineEmptySpace
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Registered: 04/20/06
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: RedNucleus]
    #5539167 - 04/20/06 09:01 PM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I love it how people insist that opening one's mind means that you have found Jesus Christ. That is just typical narrow-mindedness at its finest.


--------------------
We can't stop here - This is bat country.

-Duke--Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas


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OfflineRedNucleus
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Re: The close-mind of the open-minded philosophy [Re: EmptySpace]
    #5540465 - 04/21/06 09:32 AM (17 years, 9 months ago)

I'll forgive you for your insolence as you are but a n00b.

lolzorz


--------------------
Namaste


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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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