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mr_kite
The Watcher


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What is life if not God-induced existance?
#5522600 - 04/16/06 09:02 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Reality is a sensatory existential necessity derived from being born. Therefore death is both inevitable and desirable, being, as it is, the unitational centrality of life forms. The universe both urges me on to eternity yet drags me back, reclaiming me as its own like a yak nursing its young. If I counter this through self-belief in my own existential-reality presence, WILL I EVENTUALLY BECOME ETERNAL??
I talked to my salvia plant yesterday and she said:
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: mr_kite]
#5522990 - 04/16/06 10:55 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Reality is a sensatory existential necessity derived from being born. Therefore death is both inevitable and desirable, being, as it is, the unitational centrality of life forms."
I don't see how what you said concludes to death being inevitable..and desirable by whom? The answer in why we die using the concept of relativity again, is right n front of us. You use spare parts in a car. After some time the fatigue they get causes them to fail. Then, you replace them. Imagine if they were living organisms and probably there is an example for it but I can't think of it right now.
Imagine if us, humans, the earth, extraterrestrials, planets, suns, everything macroscopic, were a part of a bigger organism as we have our hearts, livers etc but in a microscopic scale.
In simple words. Imagine a whole universe deep inside your liver with small humans with their lives ambitions etc.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5522996 - 04/16/06 10:57 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Who said anything about God?
Honestly, what is life but yet life itself? Let's not start speculating about stuff that doesn't pertain to our experience in the slightest, that cannot be known through our experience. Useless concept, this "God".
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5523009 - 04/16/06 11:03 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"Honestly, what is life but yet life itself? Let's not start speculating about stuff that doesn't pertain to our experience in the slightest, that cannot be known through our experience. "
Yep. And that is normal common sense that most people refuse to understand but...
"Useless concept, this "God"."
...is not. For, lots of people gave up trust to anything and are so psychologiacaly weak that need to believe to something big and good that watches over us. It has a use. It makes people feel better. Even if it's most probably an exageration of simple facts.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5523050 - 04/16/06 11:15 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomerious said: ...is not. For, lots of people gave up trust to anything and are so psychologiacaly weak that need to believe to something big and good that watches over us. It has a use. It makes people feel better. Even if it's most probably an exageration of simple facts.
Delusion is never beneficial. If people are psychologically weak, as most individuals are, then they need to directly focus upon their problems and produce solutions, instead of constructing mangy crutches that cannot begin to stand up to the force of reality as it can be directly perceived.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5523064 - 04/16/06 11:21 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I disagree. For them it is beneficial. And they don't care if it's truth or lie, it just makes them feel good. Like many drugs do. Daydreaming is not beneficial in a sense but it makes you feel good. I say, whatever gets you through the night, it's alright. But I dig people that are strong enough to search for the real truth.
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5523074 - 04/16/06 11:26 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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whatever gets you through the night, it's alright
If what gets you through the night bans stem cell research, it's not alright.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5523094 - 04/16/06 11:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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For them it is beneficial. And they don't care if it's truth or lie, it just makes them feel good.
Surely Truth is among the greatest of all goods. Remaining in ignorance isn't beneficial for anyone, no exceptions.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5523096 - 04/16/06 11:34 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomerious said: I disagree. For them it is beneficial. And they don't care if it's truth or lie, it just makes them feel good. Like many drugs do. Daydreaming is not beneficial in a sense but it makes you feel good. I say, whatever gets you through the night, it's alright. But I dig people that are strong enough to search for the real truth.
I know what it is that you are saying, but there are more effective ways of creating for oneself a more fufilling experience of reality, and the only true way is by reducing one's mental obstructions of that experience of reality, thus, directly perceiving reality for what it is.
The fact is that if one does not engage in the mental discipline necessary to transform one's mind into a vessel capable of directly perceiving reality, then it matters not which shoddy home improvements one endeavors in, as one day, reality will tear right through.
As they will not be prepared, it will sweep them along, and they will struggle agansit the most powerful riptide in existance. Then what kind of fufilling experience of reality will they have created for themselves? Suffering. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5523267 - 04/17/06 01:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Yes, I agree with all of what's said. It depends what results one wants to achieve, long-term or short-term. Many people never snap out of it and the tendency is to take it as far as it goes, that is...to the grave. Creating a god makes you feel good but there is no doubt that this is the easy way. The hard way is extremely more beneficial if you are strong enough to stick to it.
"If what gets you through the night bans stem cell research, it's not alright. "
Yes, but that is from another perspective, not from the individual who believes and has a wrong view about stem cells. Although I would like to talk about that a bit more... History has shown that science is always manipulated and used for wrong purposes...atomic bomb etc. But that doesn't mean that we should hide from evolution, it just means that we must fight for the right use of stem cell technology for example. When your head aches, you don't chop it off, you fix it, and that is what is needed as well as a limit to the use of new technologies set after carefull scientific examination.
"Surely Truth is among the greatest of all goods. Remaining in ignorance isn't beneficial for anyone, no exceptions. "
No, I just don't agree. Ever seen how kids are always happy? Ignorance is bliss for the people who have it. For the rest of us it's just stupid.
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5523314 - 04/17/06 01:41 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Who said anything about God?
Honestly, what is life but yet life itself? Let's not start speculating about stuff that doesn't pertain to our experience in the slightest, that cannot be known through our experience. Useless concept, this "God".
 Peace.
but this "God" can be known through experience. are you saying you understand nothing said by posters such as markosthegnostic? i think you are mistaken in assuming that because a concept has no use to you, it is useless for everyone. as demonstrated by many users here, God can be as useful concept for communicating about their experiences. if you don't prefer to use such a concept, that is fine, but it does't mean it's useless. perhaps you have yet to discover its usefulness?
Edited by Deviate (04/17/06 02:33 AM)
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5523490 - 04/17/06 04:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
fireworks_god said: Who said anything about God?
Honestly, what is life but yet life itself? Let's not start speculating about stuff that doesn't pertain to our experience in the slightest, that cannot be known through our experience. Useless concept, this "God".
 Peace.
Maybe from your own experience. Knowing God isn't beyond the human experience at all. The experience of God is quite real, revealing the very nature of God as Ultimate Reality.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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mr_kite
The Watcher


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: mr_kite]
#5523527 - 04/17/06 05:25 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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My original post was total bulshit by the way, just to see what would come out of it. I have to say I'm as astonished as I hoped i'd be  Even if you read the first post, did you not notice it didn't make sense at all? It WAS BULLSHIT? Or do you not need to make sense if you mention God?
-------------------- let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love
Edited by mr_kite (04/17/06 05:42 AM)
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5523981 - 04/17/06 09:51 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Ever seen how kids are always happy?
Ever see a child throw a fit? Start sobbing and screaming because they can't get what they want or something is taken away from them? They suffer too, probably just on a different level than a mature adult.
Ignorance is bliss for the people who have it.
If you consider ignorance to be bliss (something which you have not yet established), then Truth and all degrees of it are many times more powerful and wonderful bliss.
I do agree with a sentiment that I think you're trying to convey, that Truth shouldn't be forced on anyone. If they are willing to listen, then sing to them, otherwise just smile.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Basilides]
#5524033 - 04/17/06 09:59 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I'm not certain, but I think you guys are talking about different conceptions of God. I get the impression Fireworks is talking about the traditional anthropomorphic concept, whereas Basilides is talking about God as Ultimate Reality. Please correct me if I'm mistaken.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5524207 - 04/17/06 10:43 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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History has shown that science is always manipulated and used for wrong purposes
1) That is not the fault of science. 2) You could make this argument about nearly anything. "History has shown trees are always manipulated and used for wrong purposes. Catapults, fortresses, spears, etc."
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MushmanTheManic
Stranger

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Basilides]
#5524229 - 04/17/06 10:46 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Knowing God isn't beyond the human experience at all.
Prove it to us, then. Take a picture of God.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5524252 - 04/17/06 10:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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He isn't anthropomorphic.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: dblaney]
#5524271 - 04/17/06 10:54 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Doesn't matter. If God isn't beyond human experience then God should be empirically verifiable.
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5524327 - 04/17/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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God is immanent-transcendent. Since He is immanent, everything you can possibly empirically experience is none other than God Himself. Since He is transcendent, the intellect cannot express Him, merely symbolize Him. However, after undergoing the appropriate practices and purifying the mind, one can become aware of the unity with Brahman.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Gomp
¡(Bound to·(O))be free!


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: mr_kite]
#5524352 - 04/17/06 11:12 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"..this is eternity!" -Unknown :p
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5524406 - 04/17/06 11:22 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Doesn't matter. If God isn't beyond human experience then God should be empirically verifiable.
God is subjectively verifiable.
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Gomp]
#5524414 - 04/17/06 11:24 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"I do agree with a sentiment that I think you're trying to convey, that Truth shouldn't be forced on anyone. If they are willing to listen, then sing to them, otherwise just smile. "
Exactly that:-)
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5524426 - 04/17/06 11:26 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"History has shown that science is always manipulated and used for wrong purposes
1) That is not the fault of science. 2) You could make this argument about nearly anything. "History has shown trees are always manipulated and used for wrong purposes. Catapults, fortresses, spears, etc." "
True, but honestly, did you read only that sentence? Because on the rest of the paragraph I explain what I mean.
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Shroomerious
OO


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5524433 - 04/17/06 11:27 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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"God is subjectively verifiable. "
That, and only that.
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Basilides
Servent ofWisdom


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5525784 - 04/17/06 04:48 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Doesn't matter. If God isn't beyond human experience then God should be empirically verifiable.
It is the divinity within that experiences the Divine Source. It is not physical, it is the heart that reaches it.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5525909 - 04/17/06 05:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
MushmanTheManic said: Knowing God isn't beyond the human experience at all.
Prove it to us, then. Take a picture of God.
take a picture of consciousness. take a picture of a feeling i had in my dream last night. you can't. that doesn't mean it was beyond human experience.
Quote:
Doesn't matter. If God isn't beyond human experience then God should be empirically verifiable.
how did you reach this conclusion when there are many aspects to human experience which are unverifiable?
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: mr_kite]
#5525982 - 04/17/06 05:32 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
mr_kite said: My original post was total bulshit by the way, just to see what would come out of it. I have to say I'm as astonished as I hoped i'd be  Even if you read the first post, did you not notice it didn't make sense at all? It WAS BULLSHIT? Or do you not need to make sense if you mention God?

 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5526000 - 04/17/06 05:35 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: but this "God" can be known through experience.
God can be known through experience.... known as what?
Quote:
i think you are mistaken in assuming that because a concept has no use to you, it is useless for everyone.
I state that it is useless in terms of communication with others.
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5526017 - 04/17/06 05:39 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
God can be known through experience.... known as what?
as God? i dont see what you're asking.
Quote:
I state that it is useless in terms of communication with others.
and i state that you are wrong, it is useful.
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fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger


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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5526053 - 04/17/06 05:46 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: as God? i dont see what you're asking.
If God can be known as God, then what is God?
Quote:
and i state that you are wrong, it is useful.
It isn't useful to the extent that it is a term that does not represent an explicable concept. One cannot explain God, and there is much ambiguity that results from that inability.
There might be an iota or two of usefulness in using the phrase, but not enough for it to be deemed effective in conveying any given idea. 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Silversoul]
#5526112 - 04/17/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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God is subjectively verifiable.
My knowledge of Gnosticism is poor. Would you argue God is part of our psyche, God exists 'externally' but can only be experienced through introspection, or what?
It's hard to understand topics about "God" when don't know which "God" is being talked about. I seem to know what God is not, but haven't a clue what you people think God is (or how this God is experienced.)
take a picture of a feeling i had in my dream last night. you can't. that doesn't mean it was beyond human experience.
I cannot experience your dreams!
how did you reach this conclusion when there are many aspects to human experience which are unverifiable?
Huh? Whether or not experience is verifiable is a whole different topic.
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MushmanTheManic
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5526117 - 04/17/06 06:00 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Robert Anton Wilson said:
I distinguish between information, all that humans can check by experience, as distinct from noise, those "things" [or non-things, or nothings] that they can only make noises or chatter about.
Examples: {A} I can say "If you open that box on the table, you will find three chocolates inside." Going to the box and opening it, in the sensory-sensual continuum, will quickly confirm or refute my statement, because you will inevitably find [1] less than three chocolates, or perhaps none at all, [2] exactly three chocolates, or [3] more than three chocolates. Results [1] and [3] refute my statement; [2] confirms it.
But {b} I might also say "Opening God for similar investigation, you will find three persons inside," as in fact Romish Magick does say. No investigation of the sensory-sensual manifold can ever confirm or refute this. Scientific philosophers generally describe such statements [about things beyond conformation or refutation] as "meaningless". Following Korzybski, I call them noise, and I venture that we cannot fathom our situation in space-time if we habitually confuse ourselves by mixing type [A] statments, informaiton, with type {b} statements, noise. We may never achieve Total Clarity [short of infinity] but we should at least have the ability to distinguish between what humans can experience and what they can only blather about.
Distinguishing between these two types of statements seems necessary for sanity and survival, because all forms of illusion, delusion, mob hysteria, hallucination etc., dogma, bigotry, "madness," intolerance etc. "idealism," ideology, idiocy, obsession etc. depend upon confusing them.
Edited by MushmanTheManic (04/17/06 06:12 PM)
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fireworks_god
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5526138 - 04/17/06 06:06 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am going to clip some of that for my cause. 
Crusade! 
 Peace.
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If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
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dblaney
Human Being

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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
#5526260 - 04/17/06 06:38 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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but haven't a clue what you people think God is
It is the ultimate Reality, which is infinite and eternal, and which our finite and temporary universe is dependent upon.
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: fireworks_god]
#5526384 - 04/17/06 07:12 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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If God can be known as God, then what is God?
refer to dblaney's posts.
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It isn't useful to the extent that it is a term that does not represent an explicable concept. One cannot explain God, and there is much ambiguity that results from that inability.
There might be an iota or two of usefulness in using the phrase, but not enough for it to be deemed effective in conveying any given idea.
despite the ambiquity, i still wouldn't go as far as to call it useless.
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5526400 - 04/17/06 07:16 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I cannot experience your dreams!
nor can you take a picture of consciousness, that doesn't make it a useless term in my mind.
Edited by Deviate (04/17/06 07:19 PM)
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5526415 - 04/17/06 07:18 PM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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We may never achieve Total Clarity [short of infinity] but we should at least have the ability to distinguish between what humans can experience and what they can only blather about.
Distinguishing between these two types of statements seems necessary for sanity and survival, because all forms of illusion, delusion, mob hysteria, hallucination etc., dogma, bigotry, "madness," intolerance etc. "idealism," ideology, idiocy, obsession etc. depend upon confusing them.
and we're saying that God can be experienced, not just "blithered about". otherwise, what would be the point?
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5527746 - 04/18/06 12:09 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Define what god can be experienced to see if we all agree.
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5527863 - 04/18/06 12:33 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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dblaney already did so. of course, the same concept can be expressed in a multitude of ways but for the sake of simplicity i will not elaborate. i am in agreement with his definition.
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5527935 - 04/18/06 12:48 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I am not sure how you can experience the Ulimate Reality though.
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5527941 - 04/18/06 12:50 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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it is immanent.
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5528018 - 04/18/06 01:10 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Well, I can't experience it... Glad some of you can! :-) Care to enlighten me?
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5528059 - 04/18/06 01:20 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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you are it, you're just not fully self aware.
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5528140 - 04/18/06 01:44 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Even though what you say is a quite open minded statement, it still has some limitations. It is too self-centered and it excludes the possibilty of it to be not true. So it is an objective view in a subjective world which is kind of confusing. I understand what yousay by "you are it", I have writen it in my first ever post here, but I proposed this view as an alternative to some religions and as something which has more possibilities to be true. The true truth I have not experienced yet. If you say that this is the truth you have experienced and you think it is the ultimate truth, in my eyes, you are the same as these christians.
Love :-)))
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5528194 - 04/18/06 02:21 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Quote:
Even though what you say is a quite open minded statement, it still has some limitations. It is too self-centered and it excludes the possibilty of it to be not true.
couldn't this criticism apply to virtually any affirmative statement? if it would make a difference to you, just add a "maybe" to whatever ive said.
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5528205 - 04/18/06 02:34 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Right. Explain to me how you have experienced it and how you can prove it besides your gut feeling. And it's not about adding a "maybe", it's about being really open minded. Also, I will say again that this truth has the flaw that is too self centered in my opinion.
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Deviate
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5528243 - 04/18/06 02:57 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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i dont know what you mean by "too self centered".
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Shroomerious
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Deviate]
#5528253 - 04/18/06 03:14 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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I mean that you have concluded in this view by stating that your self awareness has reached it's max since you say that you have experienced the ultimate truth. You are talking about the ultimate truth by using only yourself as a judge.
But besides that. I would love to be persuaded of the ultimate truth.
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dblaney
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5528833 - 04/18/06 10:17 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Deviate said: it is immanent.
Shroomerious said: Well, I can't experience it... Glad some of you can! :-)
If you can't experience That which is immanent, then you are brain dead or in a coma. Simply by reading and responding to these posts you are experiencing That which is immanent. God as immanent means that He is everywhere, He is everything: God is as much in this flower as in that dog turd.
It is too self-centered
Your definition of self-centered is:talking about the ultimate truth by using only yourself as a judge. However, there are actually many texts describing the state of awakening to the Truth, and there are people ("Masters") who are able to test people to see if they actually have awoken.
it excludes the possibilty of it to be not true.
It excludes the possibility of everything around us, the entire universe to not be true? Au contraire, this philosophy actually boldly makes the assertion that this universe is real, yet it isn't Real. It does exist (immanent), yet since it is temporary and finite, it isn't the absolute Reality (transcendent).
-------------------- "What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?" "Belief is a beautiful armor But makes for the heaviest sword" - John Mayer Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin. "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Shroomerious]
#5528975 - 04/18/06 11:08 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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God-Ultimate Reality is desiring to know you. Any heart that yearns for the Mystery will have it revealed to them. But do not take "I need to experience this first," as an approach. One's intentions need to be completely pure. One needs to fall in love with the Divine first. When the countenance is revealed in complete unity, complete awe will take you, followed by the most ecstatic feeling in your Heart. This Truth is not "self-centered", rather Spirit is pure. Spirit only gathers the wheat in the field, while the tares are unable to be harvested.
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    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
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Re: What is life if not God-induced existance? [Re: Basilides]
#5529001 - 04/18/06 11:19 AM (17 years, 9 months ago) |
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Glad you know how to read a lexicon, but I prefer to stick to the point and will not argue with you.
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