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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522530 - 04/16/06 08:43 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Fair enogh if its your own fault but if you're born into it...what ya gonna do? Blame yourself?


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522540 - 04/16/06 08:46 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

In a situation in which energy is a scarce resource, one cannot afford to waste it on laying blame and feeling helpless. The victim stance is wasteful and disempowering: exactly what someone in a life-or-death situation does NOT need.

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Offlinewilshire
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5522548 - 04/16/06 08:48 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

How can we be worthy/unworthy of someone elses' act?

that's a different point of debate. the question of 'what does a person deserve' presupposes that people deserve something (as does any framework of ethics), and we are necessarily talking about what they deserve from other people. nature cannot owe us anything.

If someone chooses to be dishonest with me, does that mean that I am unworthy of honesty, or that they are incapable/unwilling to be honest?

the second.

i admit that i've stated as an axiom that people deserve something. i believe they do (though i cannot refute the idea that maybe there are no ethics and no one owes anyone anything). i believe that people do deserve something from one another, and that the two consistent dues are the two i mentioned.


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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5522564 - 04/16/06 08:53 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

OK so we've learnt...

if you're dying from starvation and dehydration, its actually your own fault because of your poor interaction with reality, and you therefore deserve your current situation...but dont blame yourself because that's being wasteful and disempowering..exactly what you DONT need.

ie sweet fuck all.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522575 - 04/16/06 08:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Did I say that the famine was their fault? No.

Did I say that they were responsible for their original circumstance? No.

Did I say that, if they would just quit blaming themselves, they could stop starving? No.

My point is, given the desperate original circumstance, it is far more effective and helpful to focus on change and survival than it is to focus on blaming yourself/the government/the environment/etc...

This is true no matter what the conditions of your circumstance: you are 100% responsible for YOUR RESPONSE.

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5522631 - 04/16/06 09:10 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Actually you seemed to agree with the point that was made early on about "I deserve my present experience, because I have interacted with reality in order to produce it. In fact, reality deserves me, because it has engaged in interaction to produce me to interact with it."

I was basically just completely disagreeing with this thread cos I dont think it makes any sense at all (see quote just above).


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522636 - 04/16/06 09:11 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Then again I am pissed and so more argumenatative than I would be. But not that much.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522652 - 04/16/06 09:15 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

FWG made that comment with a grin, you might notice.

I did not directly agree nor disagree with him, but followed his post with my own comments. If our discussion does not make sense to you, why attempt to debate it?

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5522683 - 04/16/06 09:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Because pettyness and stupidity irritates me.


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let yourself be silently drawn by the stronger pull of what you really love

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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5522714 - 04/16/06 09:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I think it is highly possible that you have misunderstood the jist of this discussion.

Where exactly did you discern pettiness or stupidity in our discussion of shaping one's experience through focus and pro-activity?

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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5522822 - 04/16/06 09:57 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

What Do You Deserve?
All or nothing ?


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Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5523046 - 04/16/06 11:15 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Thus, one's present experience is deserved by oneself, as they are responsible for the present experience.

If I was sitting in front of my computer, diligently typing away on The Shroomery, and a satellite fell onto my house... I would be responsible for this experience?

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5523057 - 04/16/06 11:19 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
If I was sitting in front of my computer, diligently typing away on The Shroomery, and a satellite fell onto my house... I would be responsible for this experience?




More than anyone else would be... the satellite does not produce your experience of reality, nor does your cat...

Your computer does not decide which websites are viewed, but it is, after all, responsible for the ability to view the websites in the first place, is it not?

No one here is proclaiming that one is ultimately responsible for all aspects of reality, but as oneself is the only aspect of reality responsible for one's ability to experience..... :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5523067 - 04/16/06 11:23 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mr_kite said:
Because pettyness and stupidity irritates me.




Sounds like a developed, refined individual capable of accessing high levels of awareness, truly capable of creating for oneself one's own experience of reality to me! :rolleyes:

Unless you have sand in your vagina, which I suggest you check up on, what is there to be irritated about?

Isn't it great, by the way, the philosophical ability to reduce all expressed concepts down to the "starving third-world country" test? :lol:

Seriously, now, impoverished nations exist for a reason, the result of the actions as a nation in regards to the environment in which they exist. Living in a desert, after all, thus means that... :smirk:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: mr_kite]
    #5523079 - 04/16/06 11:28 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mr_kite said:
if you're dying from starvation and dehydration, its actually your own fault because of your poor interaction with reality, and you therefore deserve your current situation...but dont blame yourself because that's being wasteful and disempowering..exactly what you DONT need.




Sounds pretty much right.

Not all factors are within one's control, especially concerning the environment that has thrust one into a particular situation. If the outcome of such is not to be desired, then, obviously, it was a poor interaction, eh?

That which is one devotes oneself to, is what one deserves. Reality has devoted itself to producing individuals in poor living conditions. The subsequent experience is what the subsquent individuals devote themselves to. After all, if they were devoting themselves to living in a different area and performing different work, then they would be reaping different results, eh?

Its actually a simple concept, no need to get irritated with the way that it is and wonder aloud about those with fates that one wouldn't personally devote themselves to.

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5523103 - 04/16/06 11:37 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

After all, if they were devoting themselves to living in a different area and performing different work, then they would be reaping different results, eh?

Circumstances can be a bitch. I don't see why it's impossible for someone to devote him/herself to not-starving, but still starve to death.

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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: MushmanTheManic]
    #5523135 - 04/16/06 11:50 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushmanTheManic said:
Circumstances can be a bitch. I don't see why it's impossible for someone to devote him/herself to not-starving, but still starve to death.




If one was actually devoted to not starving, then one wouldn't starve.

Devoting oneself to the attempt to not starve would be a different story, then it would be entirely possible to still starve to death.

Devotion, to me, is the same as participating in that which one is devoted to, which is the main idea being expressed in this thread. Devotion is engaging in the activity. Its a subtle difference, but yet do you discern it? :grin:

:headbang: :headbang: :headbang: :satansmoking:
Peace. :mushroom2:


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:

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InvisibleMushmanTheManic
Stranger

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 4,587
Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5523153 - 04/16/06 11:55 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

If one was actually devoted to not starving, then one wouldn't starve.

What if you were stuck in an empty iron box with no possible way of escaping?

Its a subtle difference, but yet do you discern it?

I don't think so.

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Offlinemr_kite
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: fireworks_god]
    #5523536 - 04/17/06 05:36 AM (18 years, 2 months ago)

re: fireworks_god

Well the "starving third-world country" test is one of the easiest ways to question (or deny) the existance of a loving God...

Dude I think we'll have to agree to disagree cos really I just can't think the way you do. If you toned down your English, which is frequently gramatically poor and quite confusing, stopped using such big words and trying to appear smarter than you are, and just got your point across without all the posing and quasi-intellectual bullshit then maybe we could have a more coherent discussion.

And how can you say something like
"
If one was actually devoted to not starving, then one wouldn't starve.
"
And take yourself seriously? That's one of the least intelligent things I've heard for ages.

I await your reply dotted with smiling smileys and self-satisfied smugness

D'uh d'uh d'uh

:lighter: :hulk: :bye:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: What Do You Deserve? [Re: Veritas]
    #5524998 - 04/17/06 01:25 PM (18 years, 2 months ago)

i deserve somebody really rich
to love me unconditionally and
to give me a whack of dough so as to keep me
in a painting studio
instead of writing software for a living,
which is second best, and if nothing else - i guess
I deserve to continue doing that and
making wiggy comments on these boards when I get a chance.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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